New Student: when will you quit?

Steve

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That's a pretty gorgeous beastie though.

Have you see the David Attenborough documentary where he had a gorilla touch him?
I'm actually curious about that box. Are gorillas like cats? He's such a big dude to be standing on such a little box. :)
 

Flying Crane

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If you can box and win against gorillias consistently, your good against humans.(plus you have unquestionable bragging rights)
Ok, there is so much ignorance in this statement, Ive got to believe that you are being facetious. But just in case you are serious, dont think for a moment that a human has a chance against a silverback, or even a younger male or a female gorilla, in a bare-handed fight. They are built differently than humans, they are many times stronger than even the strongest humans and they routinely outweigh all but the most morbidly obese humans but it is all muscle for them. If a gorilla decided to go ape-**** on you, you would be pounded into the ground and torn into pieces. And it would happen before you even realized it was underway.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Which is incredibly irritating when they don't rack their weights. Jerk gorillas.
You joke, but imagine how much a gorilla could bench if he learned to do actual weight-training.

Entirely unscientific reasoning below:

An average untrained male can lift between 135 and 175 pounds per google. If I average that out, it comes out to 155. Some quick google search suggests that most people can lift up to at least 250-300 if they seriously train it; which averages to 275, so that's 1.45 times the amount of weight.

Per Guinness, the record is 885 pounds. So if we assume that guy was one that could lift 175 to start with, that's just over 5 times the weight. So a gorilla that can bench 4000, assuming that they are otherwise equal to humans in terms of training ability: the average gorilla could bench up to 5800 pounds with training, but an elite specimen could bench up to a theoretical 20000 pounds.
 

Tez3

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You joke, but imagine how much a gorilla could bench if he learned to do actual weight-training.

Entirely unscientific reasoning below:

An average untrained male can lift between 135 and 175 pounds per google. If I average that out, it comes out to 155. Some quick google search suggests that most people can lift up to at least 250-300 if they seriously train it; which averages to 275, so that's 1.45 times the amount of weight.

Per Guinness, the record is 885 pounds. So if we assume that guy was one that could lift 175 to start with, that's just over 5 times the weight. So a gorilla that can bench 4000, assuming that they are otherwise equal to humans in terms of training ability: the average gorilla could bench up to 5800 pounds with training, but an elite specimen could bench up to a theoretical 20000 pounds.

You'd have to persuade the gorilla there was a point to doing it though. They could be like my dog 'you want me to do what!'.


I was reading an article the other day about young gorillas who have learnt to undo poacher's snares, which is wonderful.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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You'd have to persuade the gorilla there was a point to doing it though. They could be like my dog 'you want me to do what!'.


I was reading an article the other day about young gorillas who have learnt to undo poacher's snares, which is wonderful.
People are able to train gorilla's to do a lot of things. If we can persuade them to learn sign language, I feel like we'd be able to convince them to lift a heavy object for food a couple times a day. Or convince them they can become the alpha by doing it.

I actually want someone to try this and see what the results are. Would be interesting to see how weight training compares cross-species.
 

Steve

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You joke, but imagine how much a gorilla could bench if he learned to do actual weight-training.

Entirely unscientific reasoning below:

An average untrained male can lift between 135 and 175 pounds per google. If I average that out, it comes out to 155. Some quick google search suggests that most people can lift up to at least 250-300 if they seriously train it; which averages to 275, so that's 1.45 times the amount of weight.

Per Guinness, the record is 885 pounds. So if we assume that guy was one that could lift 175 to start with, that's just over 5 times the weight. So a gorilla that can bench 4000, assuming that they are otherwise equal to humans in terms of training ability: the average gorilla could bench up to 5800 pounds with training, but an elite specimen could bench up to a theoretical 20000 pounds.
Fun to think about. I think it's worth validating the premise of 4k lbs. I mean, is that consistent and representative of the average gorilla, or is that an "elite" gorilla?

It also presumes that there is a roughly equivalent opportunity for improvement. That the average dude can increase their functional strength by 1.4% does not necessarily mean that an average gorilla can do so. What if. Gorilla, through genetics, lifestyle, diet or whatever, is at about their peak strength?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Fun to think about. I think it's worth validating the premise of 4k lbs. I mean, is that consistent and representative of the average gorilla, or is that an "elite" gorilla?

It also presumes that there is a roughly equivalent opportunity for improvement. That the average dude can increase their functional strength by 1.4% does not necessarily mean that an average gorilla can do so. What if. Gorilla, through genetics, lifestyle, diet or whatever, is at about their peak strength?
That last part is why I would want to see an actual experiment. I'd have to imagine just how muscles work that it is possible to increase the overall strength, especially since they're so genetically similar to us. The big question would be if the amount is the same. As for the 4k pounds thing, I see that number referenced a couple places, but it could just be one of those internet "telephone game" things. Curious who figured out that number and how.
 

Steve

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That last part is why I would want to see an actual experiment. I'd have to imagine just how muscles work that it is possible to increase the overall strength, especially since they're so genetically similar to us. The big question would be if the amount is the same. As for the 4k pounds thing, I see that number referenced a couple places, but it could just be one of those internet "telephone game" things. Curious who figured out that number and how.
I googled it, and I'm sure I saw pretty much the same things. I also saw something about 1300 to 4000 lbs, but I expect that's also just a WAG. I'm skeptical, though, because on these same sites, it also seemed to overestimate the amount a man can lift, in that the high end of over 800 lbs for a human male is not just elite, but close to the world record. So, on this site there is the following chart that looks kind of helpful, and for reference, Dwayne Johnson bench presses somewhere around 450 lbs, and it seems pressing over 350 lbs would be considered elite for an average sized dude (180 lbs or less):

Bench press average by weight
Body weight (lbs)UntrainedNoviceIntermediateAdvancedElite
11485110130180220
12390115140195240
132100125155210260
148110140170235290
165120150185255320
181130165200275345
198135175215290360
220140185225305380
242145190230315395
275150195240325405
319155200245335415
320+160205250340425

So, the question is how much stronger are gorillas, pound for pound? Because if an average gorilla weighs about 300 to 400 lbs, this would suggest they can press 10x their body weight. That's pretty impressive. The chart, if we accept it as a good starting point, gives a little more information about possible increase in strength based on the size of the person.

Note there are similar charts for women and also by age.
 
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Steve

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That last part is why I would want to see an actual experiment.
In addition to above, I appreciate this statement. I wonder about many things I think would benefit from a somewhat rigorous scientific process. I'd love to see some data on martial arts and self defense. I think there are a lot of things that are considered "common sense" in martial arts and self defense that are pure hokum. Most of this is benign, but boy does it bother me when folks profit from selling fear, and the only effective way to combat that is to get real data out there. Shoot, as we can see with vaccines, sometimes, even if you do have reliable data, fear mongering is sadly effective.
 

Xue Sheng

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Looking up a Portuguese site (pro bull fighting) it says since 1923 when fighting from horseback was revived by Antonio Canera. Other sites say tail and ears cut off before the still alive bull is taken out of the arena. Sadly on those sites there were photographs so now I feel quite sick. The short spears were shown as well being used on both the pro and anti sites.

I know, it is quite sad and rather brutal...but you don't see them doing that with a Gorilla.... A Silver back would shatter their skull right after he bench-pressed their horse.....
 
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Flying Crane

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You joke, but imagine how much a gorilla could bench if he learned to do actual weight-training.

Entirely unscientific reasoning below:

An average untrained male can lift between 135 and 175 pounds per google. If I average that out, it comes out to 155. Some quick google search suggests that most people can lift up to at least 250-300 if they seriously train it; which averages to 275, so that's 1.45 times the amount of weight.

Per Guinness, the record is 885 pounds. So if we assume that guy was one that could lift 175 to start with, that's just over 5 times the weight. So a gorilla that can bench 4000, assuming that they are otherwise equal to humans in terms of training ability: the average gorilla could bench up to 5800 pounds with training, but an elite specimen could bench up to a theoretical 20000 pounds.
Part of the issue is that their body proportions are different from humans, which creates a difference in leverage in their limbs and body. So in some kinds of strength display, they may score much larger than others, so a pushing exercise like a bench press would be resultant on the specific leverage and body proportions.

By way of example, in an anthropology class I learned about a strength test comparison between humans and chimpanzees, which of course are much smaller than gorillas, but they also have a much different body proportion and leverage, resulting in shocking levels of strength for particular exercises. They are built for pulling, but I dont know how it would compare with a push, like a bench press. Adult male chimps weigh around 150 pounds. A pulling exercise was set up, and chimps were compared to UCLA football linebackers, so some big fellows. The chimps were able to pull about 2 1/2 times what the humans could, on the same exercise, in spite of their overall body mass being much smaller. A chimp, like a gorilla, would tear a human apart, and there are tragic examples of people being maimed and killed when they tried to keep chimps as pets.

But how does this translate into a gorilla? I dont know, but I suspect that, like a chimp, their pulling strength would be many times that of a human. I dont know how the bench press would compare, but I have to believe the gorilla is far stronger than any human, regardless.

Make no mistake about it, the gorilla would destroy the human without any effort.
 

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Part of the issue is that their body proportions are different from humans, which creates a difference in leverage in their limbs and body. So in some kinds of strength display, they may score much larger than others, so a pushing exercise like a bench press would be resultant on the specific leverage and body proportions.

By way of example, in an anthropology class I learned about a strength test comparison between humans and chimpanzees, which of course are much smaller than gorillas, but they also have a much different body proportion and leverage, resulting in shocking levels of strength for particular exercises. They are built for pulling, but I dont know how it would compare with a push, like a bench press. Adult male chimps weigh around 150 pounds. A pulling exercise was set up, and chimps were compared to UCLA football linebackers, so some big fellows. The chimps were able to pull about 2 1/2 times what the humans could, on the same exercise, in spite of their overall body mass being much smaller. A chimp, like a gorilla, would tear a human apart, and there are tragic examples of people being maimed and killed when they tried to keep chimps as pets.

But how does this translate into a gorilla? I dont know, but I suspect that, like a chimp, their pulling strength would be many times that of a human. I dont know how the bench press would compare, but I have to believe the gorilla is far stronger than any human, regardless.

Make no mistake about it, the gorilla would destroy the human without any effort.
Too bad we don't have the informative button anymore.
 

Xue Sheng

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Part of the issue is that their body proportions are different from humans, which creates a difference in leverage in their limbs and body. So in some kinds of strength display, they may score much larger than others, so a pushing exercise like a bench press would be resultant on the specific leverage and body proportions.

By way of example, in an anthropology class I learned about a strength test comparison between humans and chimpanzees, which of course are much smaller than gorillas, but they also have a much different body proportion and leverage, resulting in shocking levels of strength for particular exercises. They are built for pulling, but I dont know how it would compare with a push, like a bench press. Adult male chimps weigh around 150 pounds. A pulling exercise was set up, and chimps were compared to UCLA football linebackers, so some big fellows. The chimps were able to pull about 2 1/2 times what the humans could, on the same exercise, in spite of their overall body mass being much smaller. A chimp, like a gorilla, would tear a human apart, and there are tragic examples of people being maimed and killed when they tried to keep chimps as pets.

But how does this translate into a gorilla? I dont know, but I suspect that, like a chimp, their pulling strength would be many times that of a human. I dont know how the bench press would compare, but I have to believe the gorilla is far stronger than any human, regardless.

Make no mistake about it, the gorilla would destroy the human without any effort.

Which just brings me back to, why would anyone train with someone who was training to fight a Gorilla that's insane, suicidal. That is unless they called it Silverback Kamikaze Jutsu.... at least that way you might know what your getting into
 

Tez3

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Which just brings me back to, why would anyone train with someone who was training to fight a Gorilla that's insane, suicidal. That is unless they called it Silverback Kamikaze Jutsu.... at least that way you might know what your getting into


I think it was to prove you were angry and therefore a superior being.
 

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Which just brings me back to, why would anyone train with someone who was training to fight a Gorilla that's insane, suicidal. That is unless they called it Silverback Kamikaze Jutsu.... at least that way you might know what your getting into
Oh yeah. And can you imagine trying to punch a gorilla in the head or face? You think you can damage that head? So long, new Doug

which reminds me of a news story I saw many years ago, a male chimp had escaped a facility somewhere and was running down a street, pounding on cars and scaring the hell out of everyone. Someone actually hit it over the head with a steel bar and it just kept going like nothing happened. Keep in mind, a gorilla is far bigger than a chimp. Finally a police officer shot and killed it.

Chimp attacks are savage. People have had their faces literally bitten off, and their testicles torn off and their bodies torn apart.
 

Xue Sheng

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Oh yeah. And can you imagine trying to punch a gorilla in the head or face? You think you can damage that head? So long, new Doug

which reminds me of a news story I saw many years ago, a male chimp had escaped a facility somewhere and was running down a street, pounding on cars and scaring the hell out of everyone. Someone actually hit it over the head with a steel bar and it just kept going like nothing happened. Keep in mind, a gorilla is far bigger than a chimp. Finally a police officer shot and killed it.

Chimp attacks are savage. People have had their faces literally bitten off, and their testicles torn off and their bodies torn apart.

I have read a few accounts of Pet Chimps that have viciously attacked their owners. Its great when they are young, but as soon as they grow up, things can get nasty
 
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