Need some help with my little issue..

[Owned]

Hello there, MartialTalk community !
As you can see, I'm new to the forum so I'm sorry if the thread is in the wrong section

Well, I want to talk about my little issue, and I'll be glad to get some help from you guys.. it's really important for me.
I trained for like 2 years in Krav Maga, and I quit because of an injury. I must say, K.M. really raised my confidence..
Today I feel a different guy - I can get hit by punches, kicks and keep moving. Plus, now I can actually react in fights!
Well.. that's what I thought.

I never had a real fight before, outside my dojo. Until last month.
I was in a birthday party and I took some food for myself. Some guy thought I took to much (I'm not sure why is it disturbed him), and he came in front of me, put his hand over my "rear neck" and like threat me. He didn't do any other physical move, but I just freeze. I couldn't react..

Probably, all my 2 years of training like worth NOTHING, if I couldn't do anything in real-time.
Why does I feel like that? why every time and I walk in the street or any other place, and someone is looking at me weird, or my body just feel like something is going to happend - I start to sweat and freeze a bit? why??

I really want to "stop freezing", I want to be able to make some moves in real-time, and not only in my dojo.
What am I doing wrong? how can I overcome that fear?
I'll be glad to get some help, thank you..

 

[Drose427]

Hello there, MartialTalk community !
As you can see, I'm new to the forum so I'm sorry if the thread is in the wrong section

Well, I want to talk about my little issue, and I'll be glad to get some help from you guys.. it's really important for me.
I trained for like 2 years in Krav Maga, and I quit because of an injury. I must say, K.M. really raised my confidence..
Today I feel a different guy - I can get hit by punches, kicks and keep moving. Plus, now I can actually react in fights!
Well.. that's what I thought.

I never had a real fight before, outside my dojo. Until last month.
I was in a birthday party and I took some food for myself. Some guy thought I took to much (I'm not sure why is it disturbed him), and he came in front of me, put his hand over my "rear neck" and like threat me. He didn't do any other physical move, but I just freeze. I couldn't react..

Probably, all my 2 years of training like worth NOTHING, if I couldn't do anything in real-time.
Why does I feel like that? why every time and I walk in the street or any other place, and someone is looking at me weird, or my body just feel like something is going to happend - I start to sweat and freeze a bit? why??

I really want to "stop freezing", I want to be able to make some moves in real-time, and not only in my dojo.
What am I doing wrong? how can I overcome that fear?
I'll be glad to get some help, thank you..

assuming youre reacting and fighting properly against opponents in the ring or dojo who are outt to harm you, its sounds like youre mentally freezing up.

Instead of staying calm and focused in order to react properly, youre panicking wheb in danger. Thats something that isnt easy to fix

Contact sparring and drills and bouts\matches (official or with like minded guys) are the closest you can come, but it isnt an exact translation to being in real danger. In those situations theres always someone there to stop it from going to far.

Its something that some folks need more practice than others at, and something youre gonna have to consciously work on every single time you do contact anything

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I just freeze. I couldn't react.

If you spar/wrestle 15 rounds daily, in 1 year you will have sparred/wrestled 365 x 15 = 5,475 rounds. Your accumulated experience will help you to develop your confidence. IMO, this is the only way and there is no other ways.

When you think you are a

- nail, everybody will look like hammer to you.
- hammer, everybody will look like nail to you.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Continuous training will help you get over this "freeze", in time. If the training is geared towards that. I would advise you to do some Scenario Based Training either with FAST Defense, Instinctive Response Training, etc. In it you will get an adrenaline dump and learn how to deal with it. This in turn will help you overcome freezing up in the future.

 

[drop bear]

Take up boxing. Do a fight. You are not any more scared or weaker than anyone else.

 

[hoshin1600]

Most people are familiar with the "Fight or flight" response we get from an adrenaline dump but there is also the freeze response. These are all natural and common so don't feel bad about having them the key is to learn to work with them and though them. From what you wrote my impression is this...
Having someone grab you around the back of your neck with their hand is outside of most people's training. I like to break down conflicts and fights into segments. Some of those segments match what you have experienced and some will not. It is always these unfamiliar segments that people have a hard time dealing with because it doesn't look like what you have done before and the brain is trying to make connections and find a response but can't find one.
In the situation you described he may have laid his hand on you but that was it. It would have been up to you to raise the level of the confrontation and make it a fight. That is a hard decision for some people to make and in most instances the correct thing to do is not escalate . Fights turn to law suits and no one really ever wins.
The other posters where correct. If your not training try to get back into it. It will raise your confidence level. Skills leave you very quickly. I also would advise some scenario based training.

 

[K-man]

Firstly, welcome to MT!

What you have experienced is the effect of the adrenalin dump. Brian and hoshin have explained it above. The freeze is a natural part of the adrenalin response and is the bodies natural reaction to being startled. How long it lasts will vary from person to person. Sparring in controlled conditions like a dojo or ring and not necessarily going to do a lot to reduce it as you are not really being threatened. What Brian suggested above with reality based training will give you the same sort of challenge and the same reaction. You don't need hundreds of rounds of sparring, your Krav training for two years should have given you all the tools you need to defend yourself. Re-read Brian's post and chase up some of that type of training.

 

[Mephisto]

Hello there, MartialTalk community !
As you can see, I'm new to the forum so I'm sorry if the thread is in the wrong section

Well, I want to talk about my little issue, and I'll be glad to get some help from you guys.. it's really important for me.
I trained for like 2 years in Krav Maga, and I quit because of an injury. I must say, K.M. really raised my confidence..
Today I feel a different guy - I can get hit by punches, kicks and keep moving. Plus, now I can actually react in fights!
Well.. that's what I thought.

I never had a real fight before, outside my dojo. Until last month.
I was in a birthday party and I took some food for myself. Some guy thought I took to much (I'm not sure why is it disturbed him), and he came in front of me, put his hand over my "rear neck" and like threat me. He didn't do any other physical move, but I just freeze. I couldn't react..

Probably, all my 2 years of training like worth NOTHING, if I couldn't do anything in real-time.
Why does I feel like that? why every time and I walk in the street or any other place, and someone is looking at me weird, or my body just feel like something is going to happend - I start to sweat and freeze a bit? why??

I really want to "stop freezing", I want to be able to make some moves in real-time, and not only in my dojo.
What am I doing wrong? how can I overcome that fear?
I'll be glad to get some help, thank you..

What kind of training did you do in krav? I'm just curious, did you spar regularly? If so what was the sparring format? I trained martial arts for a few years and did some occasional light sparring, wearing your standard foam dipped tkd style gear. I thought I was confident.

Then I trained bjj, in bjj I rolled with bigger stronger guys trying to submit me every class, After a while I experienced a new level of confidence unlike what I'd felt before. When I started sparring in boxing years later I could feel that confidence again. My point is some people think they are confident, they think drills and scenarios give them what they need, and I think they help. But I believe that sparring with hard contact takes training and confidence to another level. Does it guarantee you won't freeze under pressure? Of course not, but I think it helps more than many people realize. I don't think more scenario training is the answer, you're never gonna perfectly emulate every scenario. Multiple opponents and other drills are good but the ability to react under pressure is whats going to make the difference.

How did your confrontation end up? What would you have liked to have done? Not doing anything may have been the best solution. Reacting with violence may have only made you look bad. You made it out alright so that's a victory. This scenario is another reason I advocate developing skills to handle a nonlethal threat. Grappling could have helped, a solid punch or palm to the chest or stomach may have been enough to get your message across. A knee stomp, eye gouge, or grion kick? Probably would have been overkill.

 

[Owned]

assuming youre reacting and fighting properly against opponents in the ring or dojo who are outt to harm you, its sounds like youre mentally freezing up.

Instead of staying calm and focused in order to react properly, youre panicking wheb in danger. Thats something that isnt easy to fix

Contact sparring and drills and bouts\matches (official or with like minded guys) are the closest you can come, but it isnt an exact translation to being in real danger. In those situations theres always someone there to stop it from going to far.

Its something that some folks need more practice than others at, and something youre gonna have to consciously work on every single time you do contact anything

If you spar/wrestle 15 rounds daily, in 1 year you will have sparred/wrestled 365 x 15 = 5,475 rounds. Your accumulated experience will help you to develop your confidence. IMO, this is the only way and there is no other ways.

When you think you are a

- nail, everybody will look like hammer to you.
- hammer, everybody will look like nail to you.

Thanks for your comments, you are right.

Continuous training will help you get over this "freeze", in time. If the training is geared towards that. I would advise you to do some Scenario Based Training either with FAST Defense, Instinctive Response Training, etc. In it you will get an adrenaline dump and learn how to deal with it. This in turn will help you overcome freezing up in the future.

I really hope, because I trained for almost 2 years, and everyone said my progress were fine.. but it doesn't seems like that. The problem is, in Krav Maga we learn techniques and make some fights/sparings, ONLY in order to achieve the next belt. That's it, those are our only tools.

Take up boxing. Do a fight. You are not any more scared or weaker than anyone else.

Well, that's also right.. I just want to be unlike anyone else.

Most people are familiar with the "Fight or flight" response we get from an adrenaline dump but there is also the freeze response. These are all natural and common so don't feel bad about having them the key is to learn to work with them and though them. From what you wrote my impression is this...
Having someone grab you around the back of your neck with their hand is outside of most people's training. I like to break down conflicts and fights into segments. Some of those segments match what you have experienced and some will not. It is always these unfamiliar segments that people have a hard time dealing with because it doesn't look like what you have done before and the brain is trying to make connections and find a response but can't find one.
In the situation you described he may have laid his hand on you but that was it. It would have been up to you to raise the level of the confrontation and make it a fight. That is a hard decision for some people to make and in most instances the correct thing to do is not escalate . Fights turn to law suits and no one really ever wins.
The other posters where correct. If your not training try to get back into it. It will raise your confidence level. Skills leave you very quickly. I also would advise some scenario based training.

First, thank you. Now, about my confortation - when the guy put his hand over my neck, I froze, but few minutes later, after I walked away, my brain found an easy response for that (for instance, take out his hand, push him, threat him and stuff). I could do that easily, but I didn't. Unfortunately.
When I'm thinking about it now, I had no reason to afraid the law. Why? because I could "disable" the threat, without making any over-damage to the guy. Right now? I feel like I just lose, and he won.

Firstly, welcome to MT!

What you have experienced is the effect of the adrenalin dump. Brian and hoshin have explained it above. The freeze is a natural part of the adrenalin response and is the bodies natural reaction to being startled. How long it lasts will vary from person to person. Sparring in controlled conditions like a dojo or ring and not necessarily going to do a lot to reduce it as you are not really being threatened. What Brian suggested above with reality based training will give you the same sort of challenge and the same reaction. You don't need hundreds of rounds of sparring, your Krav training for two years should have given you all the tools you need to defend yourself. Re-read Brian's post and chase up some of that type of training.

First of all, thank you!
Well, you are also right. Actually, I feel like I can defend myself right now. When I'm having unreal fights with my friends, I'm avoiding almost 99% of they're hits. So basically I got the tools, that probably gets away in the REAL rights..

What kind of training did you do in krav? I'm just curious, did you spar regularly? If so what was the sparring format? I trained martial arts for a few years and did some occasional light sparring, wearing your standard foam dipped tkd style gear. I thought I was confident.

Then I trained bjj, in bjj I rolled with bigger stronger guys trying to submit me every class, After a while I experienced a new level of confidence unlike what I'd felt before. When I started sparring in boxing years later I could feel that confidence again. My point is some people think they are confident, they think drills and scenarios give them what they need, and I think they help. But I believe that sparring with hard contact takes training and confidence to another level. Does it guarantee you won't freeze under pressure? Of course not, but I think it helps more than many people realize. I don't think more scenario training is the answer, you're never gonna perfectly emulate every scenario. Multiple opponents and other drills are good but the ability to react under pressure is whats going to make the difference.

How did your confrontation end up? What would you have liked to have done? Not doing anything may have been the best solution. Reacting with violence may have only made you look bad. You made it out alright so that's a victory. This scenario is another reason I advocate developing skills to handle a nonlethal threat. Grappling could have helped, a solid punch or palm to the chest or stomach may have been enough to get your message across. A knee stomp, eye gouge, or grion kick? Probably would have been overkill.

In our Krav Maga, there are many belts. Every belt has it own techniques, and that's what our Krav Maga based on. Techniques. We are learning the basic punches, kicks, elbow hits and stuff, avoiding chokes and liftings, and in higher levels we are learning how to avoid knifes, pistols, sticks and stuff. The Krav Maga made for the street, so there's no rules, and we are trying to hit especially in the weak spots of the attacker. We also have some sparrings regularly. We are using a simple gear like gloves, and spar for like 3 minutes, including boxes, kicks, elbows, knees, etc.
My confortation ends up as I said. I just walked away, and that's why I felt like I lose. Because I couldn't react, I couldn't say anything. That guy lead me, I felt like he told me what to do and how to act. I really wanted to diable him - take his hand out, push him, threat him or something, but.. I just couldn't. The truth? walking away with a scared face, with tens of people around watching you, made me look bad, more than react or use some violance. For me? that's not a victory.

Thank you all for your comments and advices, I'll consider it as soon as possible!
I really glad that I came to that forum, I'm sure I'll stay here for a long time..

 

[Buka]

Welcome to MT, bro.

You'll be okay, don't let it worry you too much. Training for two years is like going to law school for two years, you probably wouldn't ace the Bar Exam. Just look at your issue as one more piece of life experience. Hang in there, bro, you're only human, no big deal.

 

[Jenna]

@Owned My friend I am sorry to hear you have been put in this situation. It sounds like it is been hard for you to deal with. That cannot be easy. I am glad you are checking for advice though, good for you!

I would hope you do not miss the lesson this experience is attempting to teach you! You have walked away with a scared face. Maybe this is better than walking away with a bloodied face? Or being carried away? I want you to go easy on your self. Fight/flight/freeze are all your body's completely natural adrenaline/epinephrine responses. You were unable to do much else NOT BECAUSE OF ANY WEAKNESS IN YOU!! NO!! only because you have not practiced this situation previously So you may feel you lose face in this argument, I understand this. It make sense. And but you are still here and that is a good thing, yes?

I am nobody to advise and but I say you do not need to do much to change this for your self! You have trained your KM already and so the weak link in your defence is perhaps your THINKING process?? You were not EXPECTING this confrontation, yes? All you need to is THINK exactly where you are, what are the risks to me? what can I do to avoid these risks becoming real threats? If these are real threats and it look like I am about to be involved in some thing, what is my KM experience yelling at me to do right now?

So you THINK these things all of the time.. wherever you find your self. I do not mean for you to be paranoid, to me routinely engaging this activity wherever I am is always interesting.. ask, what would I do if some thing here goes against me

Just my thoughts.. Be safe, stay well, Jxxx

 

[yak sao]

Why does I feel like that? why every time and I walk in the street or any other place, and someone is looking at me weird, or my body just feel like something is going to happend - I start to sweat and freeze a bit? why??

..

There was this guy once named Bruce Lee, perhaps you've heard of him.
He said something to the effect that when he felt butterflies in his stomach he knew his body was primed and ready to fight.

 

[drop bear]

Well, that's also right.. I just want to be unlike anyone else.

Then commit yourself and become better.

 

[Owned]

@Owned My friend I am sorry to hear you have been put in this situation. It sounds like it is been hard for you to deal with. That cannot be easy. I am glad you are checking for advice though, good for you!

I would hope you do not miss the lesson this experience is attempting to teach you! You have walked away with a scared face. Maybe this is better than walking away with a bloodied face? Or being carried away? I want you to go easy on your self. Fight/flight/freeze are all your body's completely natural adrenaline/epinephrine responses. You were unable to do much else NOT BECAUSE OF ANY WEAKNESS IN YOU!! NO!! only because you have not practiced this situation previously So you may feel you lose face in this argument, I understand this. It make sense. And but you are still here and that is a good thing, yes?

I am nobody to advise and but I say you do not need to do much to change this for your self! You have trained your KM already and so the weak link in your defence is perhaps your THINKING process?? You were not EXPECTING this confrontation, yes? All you need to is THINK exactly where you are, what are the risks to me? what can I do to avoid these risks becoming real threats? If these are real threats and it look like I am about to be involved in some thing, what is my KM experience yelling at me to do right now?

So you THINK these things all of the time.. wherever you find your self. I do not mean for you to be paranoid, to me routinely engaging this activity wherever I am is always interesting.. ask, what would I do if some thing here goes against me

Just my thoughts.. Be safe, stay well, Jxxx

That was a great comment, thank you! I like the way you're thinking
You are actually right, my weak link is my thinking. Everyone said and everything start in the head, the mind.
And what do you know.. they are right. That's what I probably have to change in myself.
I guess I learned one thing or two from that experience, until next time..

There was this guy once named Bruce Lee, perhaps you've heard of him.
He said something to the effect that when he felt butterflies in his stomach he knew his body was primed and ready to fight.

What a legend.. that what I want to become, what how I want to think!

Then commit yourself and become better.

I will.

 

[K-man]

Now, about my confortation - when the guy put his hand over my neck, I froze, but few minutes later, after I walked away, my brain found an easy response for that (for instance, take out his hand, push him, threat him and stuff). I could do that easily, but I didn't.

I think we need to look at what actually happened. It was a different situation to how you have trained. If he had engaged you from in front, I have no doubt your response would have been totally different. Your reaction was perfectly normal. We freeze when something unexpected happens and that is part of the body's natural protection. It gives time to assess the situation. If someone suddenly pulls a knife on you, the chances are you will freeze. It stops you running into the knife. The secret is to reduce that freeze to a millisecond. Sparring in the dojo or fighting in the ring is totally different. You might have the butterflies but you won't freeze. Sparring more will not help you in this case. What you need to train are situations where you are surprised and that happens in the reality based training Brian mentioned above.

Well, you are also right. Actually, I feel like I can defend myself right now. When I'm having unreal fights with my friends, I'm avoiding almost 99% of they're hits. So basically I got the tools, that probably gets away in the REAL rights..

You obviously have the tools. Now all you need is some situational training.

 

[Brian King]

Above thread some great advice about learning to deal with the adrenelin dumps and the nervous systems reactions. Owned, there is another lesson here that you might not yet realize and be aware of

During the fight, fight. After the fight, quit fighting.

Even today, days after the situation you are still throwing punches. It is fine to replay the situation to learn the lessons needed. It is great to recreate the situation with some training partners exploring some different options that were available. Understand that like a diving into river - the dive is never the same twice. Each fight, each circumstance you will face will also be different from prior experiences except for one thing. Your body will react. The reaction will vary in severity but will start the same. Learning how to recognize this reaction and learning how to mitigate and deal with your bodies reaction is a valuable tool.
One of the ways that we cleanse the chemical reaction is to refight over and over. In my opinion, this is not the healthiest method. If we look at animals, they have confrontations, do the work, then get on with life right away. Can you imagine an animal thinking to itself - "Why - should a" or " "next time - I will show it not to pee on my lawn!" We can learn from this I think.

One other thing, do not get beat up twice. So often after a conflict we beat ourselves with the should a and could haves. We knock our reactions, we place blame, we scar our own psyche's as deeply, if not more so, than our 'opponents' do. This is not healthy or helpful.

Learn the lesson then move on.

Did you go back for seconds after the exchange?

Regards
Brian King

 

[Danny T]

Hello there, MartialTalk community !
As you can see, I'm new to the forum so I'm sorry if the thread is in the wrong section

Well, I want to talk about my little issue, and I'll be glad to get some help from you guys.. it's really important for me.
I trained for like 2 years in Krav Maga, and I quit because of an injury. I must say, K.M. really raised my confidence..
Today I feel a different guy - I can get hit by punches, kicks and keep moving. Plus, now I can actually react in fights!
Well.. that's what I thought.

I never had a real fight before, outside my dojo. Until last month.
I was in a birthday party and I took some food for myself. Some guy thought I took to much (I'm not sure why is it disturbed him), and he came in front of me, put his hand over my "rear neck" and like threat me. He didn't do any other physical move, but I just freeze. I couldn't react..

Probably, all my 2 years of training like worth NOTHING, if I couldn't do anything in real-time.
Why does I feel like that? why every time and I walk in the street or any other place, and someone is looking at me weird, or my body just feel like something is going to happend - I start to sweat and freeze a bit? why??

I really want to "stop freezing", I want to be able to make some moves in real-time, and not only in my dojo.
What am I doing wrong? how can I overcome that fear?
I'll be glad to get some help, thank you..

Have you heard of the OODA Loop?
Observe, Orient, Decide, Act
Look into understanding the OODA Loop and Operant Conditioning training.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

he came in front of me, put his hand over my "rear neck" ...

Is that a "single neck tie (or double neck tie)"? Why would anybody want to threat you like that? There are so many solutions that you can do from that position.

 

[Danny T]

So basically I got the tools, that probably gets away in the REAL rights..

Have the tools and using them in training is good. Using them in a high stress, adrenaline dump situation is another. Your training must take in account its affects and how to over come it through the proper conditioning of stimulus-response training. (Operant conditioning)

 

[Mephisto]

I don't think more situational training is the answer to the ops dilemma. The op has trained krav for two years and has done situational training. His situational training failed to prepare him for this incident. He's also done sparring that failed to prepare him for this incident. I question the sparring he did and its effectiveness. The op mentioned he wore gloves, and trained punches, kicks and elbows to weak points. This sounds suspicious to me as far as hard contact soarring is concerned. Elbows with no headgear is not something many schools do regularly, especially if they don't spar regularly. Improper sparring does not build true confidence. Drills will ways leave doubt in your mind. There is no substitute for the confidence and knowledge that comes when you know an opponent has done everything they can to stop you and you have still prevailed. You can't train every situation, relying on situational training without hard sparring will not build adequate confidence. Perhaps both are good training tools but I value hard sparring over other methods like situational training but situational training can help you optimize and apply the knowledge gained from sparring.

I think the op should seriously consider a system that spars regularly such as bjj, judo, or boxing. These systems will build confidence in the face of aggression. Perhaps combined with his rbsd knowledge gained from krav he will be well prepared for a real conflict.