Native North American Fighting arts?

[Wertle]

After having a discussion about Brotherhood of the Wolf (a movie which could appear in just about *any* section of the video store and still be logical), we started wondering about indigenous fighting arts of the Native Americans, including their link across the Bering Strait to Asia.

I'm sure they had fighting arts, but apparently not well-documented ones. Does anyone have any ideas or information?

 

[tmanifold]

There is a guy who advertises in BLack belt every once in a while saying he teaches Native fighting and that he a a tradtional Native warrior but his martial background is kenpo so I have a feeling this native style of fighting will look suprisingly similar to kenpo.


Tony

 

[GouRonin]

His name is Chief Roman and while he is an 8th in American Kenpo he has his own knife and empty hand arts which I believe he is a 10th in last I heard.

His website is around here somewhere but I can't find it offhand and I'm not too inclined to look.

 

[Wertle]

yeah, it seems like it'd be pretty hard to find a current practitioner, but surely there's some history about indigenous fighting arts of native americans *somewhere*. I suppose I could always raid the anthropology department. It's just not something you really hear about, or even hear interest in, I guess.

 

[Rich_]

If they didn't have a written language to record it, there's no way of knowing. Brings to mind certain European arts that claim they've been practiced in secret for centuries, handed down by word of mouth. And, oddly, most of the grandmasters started their training in karate...

I don't doubt that there were people out there that were handy with a tomahawk or bow and that the average standard of skills in them would have been high; however, nomadic tribes would have had trouble developing *advanced* martial arts, in my opinion. All the arts I can think of were developed by people training in academies, temples, schools, or in armies. All of which require agrarian 'civilisation' - cities, stable food production and so on. Even the 'settled' American tribes only had a village-based structure, as far as I'm aware.

I'm sure there was some form of wrestling in most of the Native American cultures - show me a culture without one! In fact, the only nomadic-based arts I'm aware of are wrestling arts - Mongolian wrestling, say, or the central-Asian arts that got subsumed into Sambo.

 

[GouRonin]

http://www.adrianroman.com/index2.htm
http://www.metroart.com/kenpo.htm
http://www.geocities.com/ikkorg/bioadrianRoman.html

Here are a few links for Chief Roman.

 

[Rich_]

Cheers Gou. They're an, ummm... interesting insight into native american fighting styles...

 

[GouRonin]

Don't look at me. I just find the websites...

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah, since "chief" Roman, was born in 1942, and soon moved to Dallas, TX, where he was the only NA family in town, I don't believe he can give insight into NA martial arts. He basically developed his own style. Being Native American, I have researched this alot. What you have to understand is that the NA people were not united. They fought each other as much as fighting "white men". They have no style handed down from generation, they were survivors. They used nature as their weapons, and didn't really need a regimented art. I have yet to hear of a NA art form. Since NA can mean so many different tribes of peoples.


7sm

 

[arnisador]

They must have handed down weapons techniques from generation to generation at the very least; and almost every group of people has a form of wrestling. I can easily believe that they're lost though.

 

[Samurai]

Honestly...I have been doing A LOT of research on the techniques of Native American tomahawk techniques. My family background is Shawnee and I have spoken to several of the "old ones" on the reservation in Oklahoma.

The easiest way to describe the techniques is to look at the Filipino Martial Arts. Most of the techiques that the elders showed me can be found in the Filipino Martial Arts.

The 12 Angles from Serrada, or Inosanto Kali are like the tomahawk techniques I saw.


John Perkins is the author of a book called ATTACK PROOF. He talks about NAtive American groundfighting.


Thanks
Jeremy Bays

 

[redfive]

I would give Adrian Roman an email and ask him. I have trained with him and his daughter on several occations and he is a realy nice guy. I never did anything in the N.A. arts but his kempo is realy good. He has a lot of good stories about Mr. Parker. He is 100% indian and has done a lot of research in the N.A. I think he still teaches out of his house. He has never had a formal school, or one that lasted long. But he is a good instructor

Redfive

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by redfive

I would give Adrian Roman an email and ask him. I have trained with him and his daughter on several occations and he is a realy nice guy. I never did anything in the N.A. arts but his kempo is realy good. He has a lot of good stories about Mr. Parker. He is 100% indian and has done a lot of research in the N.A. I think he still teaches out of his house. He has never had a formal school, or one that lasted long. But he is a good instructor

Redfive

When you say Mr. Parker are you talking about Quanah Parker ?

 

[GouRonin]

Chief Roman studied with Ed Parker of American Kenpo fame.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by GouRonin

Chief Roman studied with Ed Parker of American Kenpo fame.

Oh, gotcha, sorry. I was thinking of na chief fame.

I would be interested in seeing some techniques mentioned about tamahawks. I have visited most Reservations in america with my uncle who was head of indian affairs for many years. I used to go with him on trips to the reservations when I was a kid. I loved it. My tribal affiliation is most likely nothing now, since its been years for me, but I'm allways facinated by NA arts.


7sm

 

[GouRonin]

I just saw an ad for Adrian Roman claiming he can certify you for black belt in 365 days or less all for the low low price of $995.00.

The webpage is www.blackbelt4you.com

Why is it on the page where they deal with dertification they say,

"REMEMBER, EVEN IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE COLORED BELT RANKS, YOU STILL HAVE AN AUTHENTIC AND ACCEPTED BLACK BELT CERTIFICATE FOR WHAT WORK YOU HAVE DONE, OR WILL DO, THROUGH GRANDMASTER ROMAN’S AMERICAN KENPO SYSTEM.
DISCLAIMER: Receipt of the American Kenpo Black Belt Certificate from GrandMaster Adrian Roman does not endorse or certify the recipient in any form or manner."

This confirms my worst fears that American Kenpo is quickly becoming the American version of TKD.

 

[7starmantis]

Not only that but you are "entrusted the noble title of warrior" as well. Man thats priceless, you can't put a price tag on that! Are you crazy! !st Degree Black AND noble Warrior title, all for only $995, thats a deal man, you should take it up and quick!!




7sm

 

[GouRonin]

I wonder if he'll take an IOU?

Heck, I betcha he has an "easy payment plan."
:shrug:

 

[7starmantis]

Probably he does!! But you better poy up, you don't want his army of noble warriors to come looking for you!!


7sm

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by GouRonin

I wonder if he'll take an IOU?

Heck, I betcha he has an "easy payment plan."
:shrug:

Maybe we can trade him Manhattan Island for his video system and certificate.