Muslims vs. Islamists

Big Don

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Muslims vs. Islamists Hurriyet Daily News EXCERPT
Wednesday, January 27, 2010
Soner Çağaptay



I am thankful to Mr. Umaru Abdul Mutallab, the father of the failed Christmas day bomber. In late 2009, Mr. Abdul Mutallab, a Muslim, approached U.S. authorities in his native Nigeria to warn them of his son’s slide into Islamist ideology. Mr. Abdul Mutallab’s altruistic initiative is a case in point about the conflict between Muslims and Islamists.
While Islam is the faith of 1.4 billion people, Islamism is not a form of the Muslim faith or an expression of Muslim piety. Rather, it is a political ideology that strives to derive legitimacy from Islam. Islam and Islamism are not synonymous, and there is even a tension between the two, exemplified by the case of this Nigerian Muslim father turning in his Islamist son to the authorities.
So if Islam is a faith, then what is Islamism? It can be best described as an “anti-” ideology, in the sense that it defines itself only in opposition to things. That is, Islamism stands not for but against.
For starters, Islamism is anti-Semitic in promoting the view that Jews are evil. Because Jews live in Israel, it is also anti-Israeli, and it is also anti-American due to its distorted view of Jews’ role in the United States. “Jews are evil, they run America, therefore America is evil” – this is the mantra of Islamist thinking.
Islamism is also anti-Christian, having a perverted view of the religion as well. And since Jews and Christians live in the West, many Islamists are anti-Western. They likewise oppose liberal democracy and secularism, as these institutions originated in the West.
What is more, Islamists tend to be anti-capitalist because – now you follow the logic – capitalism originates from the West. Many also believe that “Jews invented capitalism” and therefore see capitalism as doubly evil. When they make money, however, Islamists often soften their negative attitude toward capitalism, anti-capitalism being ever the corruptible link in the Islamists’ “anti-” ideology.
Paradoxically, Islamists also consider communism evil – “the Jews invented that as well.” That Karl Marx, who had Jewish grandparents, was raised a secular Protestant is irrelevant to Islamist zealots who find “evil Jews” everywhere. Islamists see Jewishness in all things they dislike politically. Take, for instance, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, who had no Jewish heritage. Many Islamists, who cannot imagine a genuine Muslim who shares Western values, will tell you he is a crypto-Jew.
Islamism is therefore not about the Islamic faith. Rather, it is a dystopian ideology that distorts religion and reality to fit its “anti-” platform. In fall 2009, in a recent case demonstrating this pattern, Turkish Islamists attended the funeral of Caliph Ertuğrul Osman, the descendant of Westernizing Ottoman sultans, lamenting the caliphate as the anti-Western institution par excellence.
END EXCERPT
Thank Carol, she linked to this. It needed to have it's own thread.
 

Bill Mattocks

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The basic premise is correct, and I am glad to see a post like this coming from you, Don. It's not terribly accurate about what "Islamists" are or what they believe, but it does make clear that Islamists stand apart from mainstream Islam and that it has a political agenda far more than it has a religious agenda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

Islam is not a unified religion. We say "Islam" and "Muslim" as if that by itself encompassed all the beliefs of those who fall within it, but it's as generic as "Christian." We know that there are radical Christians and mainstream Christians and "Christmas and Easter Christians." Christians who go to church and Christians who are pretty much Christians in name only. It's the same with Islam. Besides the major branches of Sunni and Shiite, there are many smaller branches and divisions within the sects of Sunni and Shiite. They even have 'mystical' groups such as the Sufis, which might correspond to some of Christianity's 'New Age' sects or mystical sects like Jewish Cabala.

We say we know what "they" believe, or what "their" plans are with regard to world domination, but that's such a wild generalization that it beggars the imagination; it would be the same if some Muslim (and I'm sure some do) said they know what all Christians believe, or what all Americans believe. When I see a t-shirt or bumper sticker that says "I learned all I need to know about Islam on 9/11," I think to myself that this is a person who is not only ignorant, but proud enough of it to tell the world. Did we learn "all we needed to know" about the Japanese when they attacked Pearl Harbor? Hell, if we did, why didn't we just exterminate the entire island?

Even Islamists are not a unified group; from the Muslim Brotherhood to AQ to Al Shabab to the MILF in the Philippines, and Salafists, etc.

As I've said before, it's a mistake to think all Muslims want us dead; with their numbers, if that were true, we'd be engulfed in a conflagration that would make the world wars seem like frat house punch ups, hundreds of millions if not billions would be dead. It's even a mistake to think that all Islamists want us dead - some are isolationists, some are racists, some seek only to impose Sharia law on their own countries and do not seek to expand the borders of the "Islamic World," but yes, absolutely they are all dangerous and many if not most of them *do* want us dead.

However, there is a huge danger, and it's on multiple fronts, in my opinion.

The first is that Islamist viewpoints are gaining traction in the Muslim world. They're gaining strength and converts. Anyone who thinks we've nearly defeated AQ has not been paying attention to the US teenagers from middle-class homes who have been showing up in places like Sudan and Somalia with explosives strapped to their backs. Islamists are gaining power, not losing it. And yes, the ones who aggress against us, they are our enemy. We must destroy them, or they will most assuredly destroy us.

The second is that the average American doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between the average Muslim and an Islamist. To Joe Sixpack, there's no difference, and no point in spending time trying to figure it out if there is a difference. This is a problem because it leads to injustice - attacks against Muslims who have done us no wrong, including those who have come to the USA precisely because they prefer a Western lifestyle. it is these people we should be welcoming and embracing, not rejecting and ordering them to leave our country or abandon their religion. We're burning down their Mosques, marching against new ones being built, shooting at them from cars (like cowards). These are the very people who would be singled out and killed by Islamists themselves; but we also reject them as the enemy. I think that is not just an injustice, but a tactical error on our part.

The third is that Islamists who wish us ill definitely like it when we speak out against all Muslims, or when we drive them out of the US, demand they give up their religion and their customs, and commit violence against them. They use this as propaganda - the more we do it, the better they like it. We are tools in that sense; playing into Islamist hands and giving them great PR material that they spread far and wide to convince uneducated common Muslim folks that "all Americans want to kill them" and setting themselves up as the protectors of the poor and downtrodden of the Islamic world. Did you know that Islamists place great pride in the charity work they do in poor Islamic countries? It's all very cynical; unlike the Red Cross and other organizations that give without regard to religion, the Islamist's charity is reserved for Muslums; but it's a 'Heard and Minds' campaign that works. They feed and clothe the poor (Muslims) and fill their heads with stories about how America wants to burn down their Mosques and force them to give up their religion - and they can provide some great newspaper stories and new clips and so on. It's enough to make me very angry - so angry I seldom want to get involved in these threads anymore - because it is our own chowderheads that are feeding them this ammunition to use against us.

The last is that some of our chowderheads who foment this hatred against Muslims are well aware of what they're doing; and they're glad of it. These morons actually want a world-wide religious war. Let me tell you, in my opinion, any God of mine would view someone like Terry Jones as nothing more than a murderer-by-proxy and cast his soul into Hell accordingly.

I hate the fact that we have to fight Islamists who are an actual threat to us, while trying not to get into a world religious war with the billions of innocent Muslims who are not a threat to us; but they will be if people like Terry Jones get their way.

Anyway, thanks for posting this. It's not 100% accurate, but it's a reasonable approximation for purposes of discussion.
 
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Big Don

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I've got $100 says no one could list every denomination of Christianity without resorting to Google...
 

elder999

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I've got $100 says no one could list every denomination of Christianity without resorting to Google...

Hmmm. I could probably win that one, but how would you know I didn't resort to Google???

Actually, chances are I wouldn't win;some nutball is coming up with his own denomination as we speak, or did last week, month or year......:lfao:
 
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Big Don

Big Don

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Hmmm. I could probably win that one, but how would you know I didn't resort to Google???
You've got an honest face
Actually, chances are I wouldn't win;some nutball is coming up with his own denomination as we speak, or did last week, month or year......:lfao:
All too true.
 
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