Mexican Teen Dies In AZ

[MJS]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40935657/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

NOGALES, Ariz. — A Mexican teenager who threw rocks at Border Patrol agents in the Arizona city of Nogales died early Wednesday, but the manner of death is now in dispute.
A Mexican official said 17-year-old Ramses Barron Torres died after he fell from a border fence and hit his head on a rock.
But state police in Sonora, across the border from Arizona, said companions of the Barron Torres claim he was shot by a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

I have to wonder if there isn't more to the story than this. I dont know what the SOPs of the Boarder Patrol are, but upon first read, this sounds a bit excessive for simply throwing rocks. It could be possible that someone made it look like he was shot by a BP agent. I guess time will tell.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Well, if we put up "trespassers will be shot" signs in Spanish on all border fences.....

 

[Big Don]

1 If he fell while coming into the US illegally, tough ****
2If you throw rocks at someone armed with firearms, you'd better hope they are very forgiving. If they aren't... tough ****

 

[granfire]

Well, if we put up "trespassers will be shot" signs in Spanish on all border fences.....

How do you say "trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again" in spanish?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

A senseless avoidable situation.

 

[Big Don]

A senseless avoidable situation.

Do not invade our country/throw rocks at our law enforcement officers, live longer.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Don't trespass.
Don't break the law.
Don't throw rocks at cops.
Don't climb fences you're not supposed to be climbing.
and so on.

Did the kid deserve to die? No. But at 17, he was capable of making the decisions that would have kept him alive.

 

[granfire]

Old enough to know better, but too young to care...

 

[Mark Jordan]

Heard in the news that he was in the most wanted list and is known to authorities as a juvenile smuggler. No wonder he was shot.

 

[granfire]

Heard in the news that he was in the most wanted list and is known to authorities as a juvenile smuggler. No wonder he was shot.

that can man anything, too...I am not trusting news much these days anymore...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I cannot comment on the death, as the facts remain unknown. We don't know if he was or was not shot. If he was shot, we do not know who shot him. We also do not know what activities he was engaged in when shot (if shot). Throwing rocks at border patrol officers or simply scaling a border fence are different crimes, represent different threat levels, and demand different responses from law enforcement. I therefore cannot make a blanket statement about whether or not it is 'good' that the young man is dead.

As it pertains to shooting people, all law enforcement agencies in the USA have 'Use of Force' doctrines that are written, and which must be obeyed. If it is determined that the youth was shot by a US Border Patrol officer, then the circumstances surrounding the shooting must be investigated to determine if protocol was observed.

First, Mexico is not North Korea. We do not have standing 'shoot to kill' orders regarding those who invade our borders illegally. Simply crossing the border illegally (first offense) is a misdemeanor. Certainly not a life-threatening issue for the officer in question.

Second, if the suspect was indeed throwing rocks at law enforcement officers, that behavior may or may not allow the use of deadly force in self-defense; it would depend upon the circumstances and upon the Use of Force Doctrine that the US Border Patrol maintains.

I do not automatically applaud or complain about such tragic events. It is unfortunate when almost anyone dies. I cannot defend the officer in question nor condemn his or her actions until we know more. I think "tough sh**" is an inappropriate response at the present time, but it says a lot about the person who utters it.

 

[ballen0351]

Should not be hard to tell. A gun shot looks alot different then a fall I wonder whats taking them so long to decide what happened to him

 

[billc]

Didn't they have video footage of this? I thought that they did.

 

[MJS]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_mexico_lawsuit

SAN ANTONIO, Tex. (Reuters) – The parents of a Mexican teenager allegedly killed last year by a bullet fired by a U.S. [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]Border [COLOR=#366388 !important]Patrol[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] agent across the Rio Grande river, on Monday sued the U.S. government for $25 million.
The U.S. Border Patrol says Sergio Hernandez Guereca, 15, was pelting U.S. agents with rocks from the Mexican side of the Rio Grande river last June when Border Patrol agents on the U.S. side shot him to death.
But Bob Hilliard, attorney for the Mexican family, said today that the boy was the victim of "brutality" on the part of the federal agents, and was "shot in cold blood."
"We have seen brutality captured on video tape that stuns us as a country, when we think that [COLOR=#366388 !important][COLOR=#366388 !important]law [COLOR=#366388 !important]enforcement[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR] are trained and should not do that," Hilliard said.

 

[billc]

Let's see the tape.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Counter Sue the Mexican government for each border patrol agent killed, each US civilian murdered, and every last round that's crossed the border.

 

[MJS]

Counter Sue the Mexican government for each border patrol agent killed, each US civilian murdered, and every last round that's crossed the border.

Agreed. I have to wonder if whoever was filming this, caught the kid who was throwing the rocks. I would be interested in knowing what the SOPs are for the border patrol are. Perhaps this was a justified shooting. In any case, I do find it interesting, altough not surprising, as to how some, namely the people involved in the suit, are painting this kid like he's some innocent victim. Sounds to me like he was just as guilty as the rest that constantly break the law.

 

[Big Don]

Counter Sue the Mexican government for each border patrol agent killed, each US civilian murdered, and every last round that's crossed the border.

Not to mention every last cent spent supporting their citizens.

 

[Carol]

How do you say "trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again" in spanish?

Intrusos se disparó, sobrevivientes se disparó de nuevo

Oh wait, that was a rhetorical question :lol:

 

[Big Don]

Intrusos se disparó, sobrevivientes se disparó de nuevo

Oh wait, that was a rhetorical question :lol:

Not entirely...