Metsubishi/Shuriken

Cryozombie

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Do any of you train to use any type of "metsubishi" eye blinders to distract/startle your opponent to allow you to escape/close in to execute a techniue?

Like Pepper Spray, or tossing a handfull of coins at them, etc...?

If so, how do you apply the techniques?

Similarily do you train with shuriken for those purposes? I would think that "shuriken" would be strange and impractical in the modern world, but I started thinking about it, and if you had to, you could use CD's, etc, for shuriken in a pinch to disuade an attacker i suppose. (I was pondering that at work the other day, and took a couple blank CD-roms, and my papercutter, and cut some shuriken out of them, just because I was bored. They shatterd as soon as they hit anything, but it was an amusing distraction) And I couldnt imagine the law looking down on you for having a pocket full of Oragami shuriken either... although it would be debatable if you could disuade an attacker with a paper shuriken... Im starting to ramble, but I look forward to your answers.
 

r.severe

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Skills...
It is more or less required to research, train and with time become a expert at these three skills as a shinobi musha... in the Kamiyama Dojo.

Shurikenjutsu (bo, senban, hira)
Metsubishijutsu
Shukojutsu

It would seem very odd not to train in these skills if one was into realistic survival skills with of without martial training.

ralph severe, kamiyama
 

Don Roley

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Technopunk said:
Similarily do you train with shuriken for those purposes? I would think that "shuriken" would be strange and impractical in the modern world, but I started thinking about it, and if you had to, you could use CD's, etc, for shuriken in a pinch to disuade an attacker i suppose.

If you learn the essence of shuriken throwing you can apply the skills to numerous thrown weapons. If someone had a gun on you and was talking insanely about how he was going to gun you down, your last, best hope would be to plead with him and offer him the contents of your wallet. Once it is in your hands as he thinkis he is about ready to offer it to you, throw it in his face using semban shuriken skills and dive in with a desperate attack since you have nothing to lose.

And if you ever learn the pistol skills of the Bujinkan, you will note that a lot of them are based on the gross motor skills of shuriken throwing.

Ironically, because I live in Japan, shuriken are a more realitic weapon for me than pistols. My neighbor had someone break into their house while they were asleep inside last month. You could say it caused a stink. Instead of a pistol, I would probably be chasing the creep down the street tossing shuriken if it happend here.
 

tshadowchaser

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How is the chaseing down and possibly injuring a felon, by throwing a object looked upon in Japan, by the courts(and police)?
Here in the states you could be convicted of any number of crimes for pursueing and hurting the guy.
 

Don Roley

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There is that possibility in Japan as well. But the reality of the matter is that the cops take a little more leeway in how they enforce the law here and if they find an injured felon in the custody of a victim they probably would ignore his injuries and not write it up. Actually, you would be lucky if you commited a robbery and got off without a beating by the police themselves. There is a reason why the crime rate is so low in this country and it has nothing to do with the level of violence on TV or access to firearms.

Of course, in my case, I would never try to chase an intruder after he has left my yard. But I would not go outside to investigate a strange noise without something to help stack the odds in my favor. But you have to admit the image of me chasing an intruder down the street tossing shuriken is an interesting one.
 
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Frank Anford

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Don Roley said:
But you have to admit the image of me chasing an intruder down the street tossing shuriken is an interesting one.
sorry but it sounds funny. Unless was a 25lb steel plate fashioned into a shuriken
 
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Cryozombie

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How would "modern" metsubishi be applied?

Obviously, somthing like Mace/Cs/Capsicum Spray... by far the more common and prolific types...

But what else? What about say, kicking up sand at the beach, or water, if you were in the water... flicking a ciggarette at your oponents eyes...

Any other examples?
 

r.severe

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Metsubishi..

What I have experienced first hand and not from a book or hear say...


I would say it really depended on the environment you were training in to simulate a conflict.
Take for example.. training in the woods during military-police-etc. you can kick up the duff into the face with your boot-shoe… or reach down and grab a hand full and throw it.. or even get aerobic, roll and pick up some then throw it into the face..
Unarmed or weaponry training.. Running away from an attacker you can pull a branch back and let it pop into his face..
During stream or water training you can splash water into the face.. as well as sand from the bottom..
During knife or fixed bayonet training you can use a BDU jacket or any jacket in your live hand during knife drills.. popping it into his face..
Using your Swiss seat rope.. or sling rope as a tool to pop at his face as well during knife drills..
Bringing your LBE-LBV out and around your shoulder to throw or pop at him as you use the knife or machete..
Using your cover to throw into his face while avoiding him or attacking him..
Having your knife in hand with sheath.. letting the sheath pop out into his eyes while you hold the handle..
Popping your sweat soaked drive on rag into his face.. sweat popping into his eyes...

The list can go on and on for woodland combat drills training..

But this can be only experienced during that type of environmental training.. not in a dojo where it is dead and not ‘real’….

ralph severe, kamiyama
 
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Cryozombie

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r.severe said:
Metsubishi..

What I have experienced first hand and not from a book or hear say...


I would say it really depended on the environment you were training in to simulate a conflict.
Take for example.. training in the woods during military-police-etc. you can kick up the duff into the face with your boot-shoe… or reach down and grab a hand full and throw it.. or even get aerobic, roll and pick up some then throw it into the face..
Unarmed or weaponry training.. Running away from an attacker you can pull a branch back and let it pop into his face..
During stream or water training you can splash water into the face.. as well as sand from the bottom..
During knife or fixed bayonet training you can use a BDU jacket or any jacket in your live hand during knife drills.. popping it into his face..
Using your Swiss seat rope.. or sling rope as a tool to pop at his face as well during knife drills..
Bringing your LBE-LBV out and around your shoulder to throw or pop at him as you use the knife or machete..
Using your cover to throw into his face while avoiding him or attacking him..
Having your knife in hand with sheath.. letting the sheath pop out into his eyes while you hold the handle..
Popping your sweat soaked drive on rag into his face.. sweat popping into his eyes...

The list can go on and on for woodland combat drills training..

But this can be only experienced during that type of environmental training.. not in a dojo where it is dead and not ‘real’….

ralph severe, kamiyama

Ah, some great ideas... Thanks
 
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Elizium

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By throwing your fingers directly into their eyes in a way to make the attacker blink is metsubushi. It does not have to be limited to coins or a wallet. I may guess that Mr. Roley and Mr. Severe have done this type of metsubushi in the past.

Also using a pen in a Bo shuriken throw is also viable. Those cheap Bic pens are ideal for mestsubushi as well as shuriken (who says it has to injure by penatration when it can deflect attention away?).
 

Flatlander

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The idea of a cigarette is interesting...I have considered this before. You get the added benefit of the cerry exploding in his face which, I imagine, would cause a good distraction.
 
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Elizium

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flatlander said:
The idea of a cigarette is interesting...I have considered this before. You get the added benefit of the cerry exploding in his face which, I imagine, would cause a good distraction.
By cerry you mean the cigarette. A cigarette would work better if lit.

But then you have to think how you got into that situation in the first place to warrant this situation.
 
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Cryozombie

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Elizium said:
By cerry you mean the cigarette. A cigarette would work better if lit.

But then you have to think how you got into that situation in the first place to warrant this situation.

I think he ment "Cherry" which is the glowing lit end.

I don't quite know what you mean by "think how you got into the situation"... some people are bad people and they attack you, because they dont like you, because they want your money, your woman, your child... it just happens sometimes, otherwise, why would we train?
 

Flatlander

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Yes, I meant cherry, and typed it badly. I imagine I would have gotten into this situation by smoking a cigarette, and being attacked. Seems pretty straightforward.
 

Dale Seago

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flatlander said:
I imagine I would have gotten into this situation by smoking a cigarette, and being attacked.

That would be an entirely credible scenario here in San Francisco, where cigarette smokers are more or less considered to be suicide terrorists carrying and using chemical weapons of mass destruction (second-hand smoke kills, you know).
 

Flatlander

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Dale Seago said:
That would be an entirely credible scenario here in San Francisco, where cigarette smokers are more or less considered to be suicide terrorists carrying and using chemical weapons of mass destruction (second-hand smoke kills, you know).
I know, man. I'm really going to quit one day. But now, having considred the defense applications....
 
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Elizium

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Technopunk said:
I think he ment "Cherry" which is the glowing lit end.

I don't quite know what you mean by "think how you got into the situation"... some people are bad people and they attack you, because they dont like you, because they want your money, your woman, your child... it just happens sometimes, otherwise, why would we train?
Well as he said that he typed it wrong I was curious as to what he was really saying. [Again Elizium jumps the gun].

The situation is how you ended up being there in the first place. Taking a wrong turn down a road, straying away from the tourist areas... things like that. Even though crime and the numbnuts that do it are everywhere [paranoia rising], using forthought as to see what may be happening will work just as well to get you out of a possable situation.

It is like asking how many numpties... sorry normal people would walk down a unlit back alley at night in an area they do not know? Who would? Not me, for that situation may be more harmful for me. So looking at the possable situation of the "What if" theory, then getting into the situation of using a weapon is reduced [Unless you want to flip out and do a relultimatepower.net type of thing].

Basic awareness is more better than walking down the road and suddenly thinking "oh s**t, a freak with a gun... err... I know pee me pants and hand over my wallet".
 
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Cryozombie

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Elizium said:
Basic awareness is more better than walking down the road and suddenly thinking "oh s**t, a freak with a gun... err... I know pee me pants and hand over my wallet".

Yeah, thats common sense stuff... But "hyperawarness" cannot neccessarily accout for every situation...

Your in a bar. (Insert sporting event here) is on the TV, you are at a table/booth, looking over the bar at the Tv, and togh guy at the bar says you are looking at his woman.

"No man, I am watching the game above you"
"Oh, so my woman isnt good enough to look at"
"No, man, I didnt say that, but I was just watching the game"
"Oh, so you are looking at my woman"

There ya go. Situation. It just happens that you cannot allways be out of the "line of fire", although I agree with you that by being careful where you are and what you are doing you can lessen the risks.
 
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vladmr1313

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This has been a pretty informative discussion. I'm really enjoying this forum.

As for my own cigarette experiences when I lived in a bad part of town here in Tampa and I'd walk or bicycle home back from the nightclub district Ybor I'd carry and puff on a lit cigar.

Now I used to smoke but I didn't like cigars but my logic was if someone tried to grab me on my way home I could give them a nasty surprise, plus a cigar can be used several times in that respect but a cigarette is usually only good for one poke.


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