Maryland "storm-troopers" harass innocent gun owner

[KenpoTex]

Damn...Oklahoma "requesting" that people bring their guns in for testing, the ATF meddling [yet] again...now this.

This crap is getting out of hand...The NRA has confirmed this story by the way.

Last night at 12:30 pm a MD State Police "Armed Response Team" showed up at our door. I was dead asleep, my Wife was laying some ceramic tile on our basement floor when our driveway alert went off several times. She looked at the camera monitor and screamed that Police in Assault gear were running up to our front door. That made me sit straight up from a dead sleep.
We thought they were there for my Brother in Law who had just been mailed Bench Warrants to our home, but he doesn't live here and he is already incarcerated, so my Wife opened the door for them.

Then I heard one of them say he had some papers for me or needed to speak with me,so I got up to speak with them 6 or 7 officers in full assault vests, etc. and NO ONE in uniform. Four heavily armed police came into the house while at least two others walked around outside of our home. One, began to talk to me asking me about the types of weapons I own. Remember now, I was just startled from a dead sleep and I kept asking why are you here, why do you want to know about my guns? Every gun I bought in Maryland I bought from a MD Dealer. Well this Trooper said that I had purchased a "large amount" of ammunition recently and wanted to know why. When I questioned why he was asking, then he changed his tune to what type of Handguns I had. I told him I just purchased my first handgun in Maryland last week, but had not even picked it up from the Store . He questioned me about other handguns I might own and I realized that he was "fishing" to match his list of my ammunition purchases with handguns that I owned. Then I told him about my C&R license that I had purchased 2 with that but was not required to register them with ST. Police. Moreover, I told him it was the MD. ST. Police who approved me as a "designated collector" so why are they here in storm trooper fashion at 12:30 pm maybe to kill me because I legally bought some handgun ammo? He told me that most of the ammo I purchased was for weapons that they had no record of me having registered so the "SYSTEM" Flagged me. Flagged me for what? Death, Harassment at midnight by 7 Storm Troopers?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2059939/posts

 

[Makalakumu]

I wonder when people are going to realize that "just doin' their job" just do happens to violate our Constitutional Rights? This is bad...and I can see it getting worse. What would it be like to be one of those jackboots barging into a private citizen's door? I seriously wonder what they are thinking and whether or not they even understand the Constitution?

 

[shesulsa]

This IS really bad. And I have to wonder about the ability to monitor all the other transactions that occur and the lackadaisical response to them?

This is frightening.

 

[Archangel M]

Some things I would like cleared up before I swallow the story hook, line and sinker.

Typically a SWAT team doesnt raid a home without a warrant unless there is an exigent circumstance involved. I can think of no police administrator who would authorize an operation like that unless someone was going to be arrested or a search warrant served. If they did have a search warrant for "illegal ammo" they would have taken the guys ammo...something just doesnt add up.

Not that MD doesnt have some of the stupidest gun laws out there however. If something like this is true, its the state I would expect it to happen in.

 

[Archangel M]

I read the whole story..this is what I THINK happened. The guy had a brother who used to live at his house, the brother has an open warrant (for what??) and was using this address. The SP got some sort of flag based on the warrant, the ammo purchase etc and decided to go to the house to investigate. While described as a "heavily armed" SWAT team, what I think they were was a plainclothes unit who put on some external armor due to the warrant issue. The writer states his wife "let them in" so apparently they didnt ram the door, but knocked and asked to be let in. The went in, asked a few questions and left. While the whole issue of government tracked ammo purchases stinks IMHO, it doesnt appear that the cops did anything illegal here. If refused entry and they forced their way in..thats a different story, I dont see anything illegal "on its face" regarding the police coming to your door.

My .02 on what Ive found on the net. I may be entirely wrong. Its an interesting story and ill be keeping track of it.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Fascism at its finest.

Where's the ACLU when stuff like this happens?

 

[Archangel M]

Fascism at its finest.

Where's the ACLU when stuff like this happens?

What would the ACLU do?

What was the "illegal activity" by LE in this story? While (if in fact true and as written) it is upsetting that the police are going to the doors of people who legally purchased ammo to question them, its not a rights violation as long as you cant refuse to answer without facing legal action. The number of officers and how they are armed can enter into the equation regarding a 4th Amendment violation, unless they can reasonably explain the necessity for showing up in that manner. But again the officers were allowed in in this case.

Bear in mind im NOT supporting the states "ammo tracking" program. Or at least the way they are implimenting and using it. They should be able to subpoena purchase records, but wholesale record access is over the top IMO.

 

[KenpoTex]

I dont see anything illegal "on its face" regarding the police coming to your door.

What was the "illegal activity" by LE in this story?

Do the actions of the police/government have to be illegal for them to be wrong?

 

[Sukerkin]

Now that's an interesting question, Tex.

I do think that given Archangel's professional experience we can accept his assertion that the actions were done within the letter of extant legislation.

It is important tho' that we weigh-up whether the actions of an arm of government are 'moral' or 'right' as well as legal.

 

[Ninjamom]

If it were just for routine questioning and/or follow-up on some paperwork, why was it done at 12:30 a.m.?

That fact alone makes the entire incident 'questionable' at best.

 

[Archangel M]

If it were just for routine questioning and/or follow-up on some paperwork, why was it done at 12:30 a.m.?

That fact alone makes the entire incident 'questionable' at best.

Hey. I agree. Im just saying that I think there is more to this story. Enough to make it "right"? I dont know. But we are just getting a one sided account here.

Im still of the belief that the "warrant issue" that was quickly glossed over by the OP played a role. Just a gut feeling.

 

[Archangel M]

Do the actions of the police/government have to be illegal for them to be wrong?

While Im not arguing the point, how then do you initiate a legal action against them?

 

[chinto]

in my state I would have asked to see their warrant. when none was produced I would have told them to please leave, and if they said why, informed them they were now looking at charges under "title 18 US Code. felony abuse of authority" and that I had not consented to any search and they better stand at the door as a group when one started to 'wonder around looking' ... I don't know what the laws are in MD but in my state they would be in violation of my rights under the US and state constitution... and I would file a complaint with the dept, the state attorney Gen, and contact an attorney and judge for a court ordered NO TRESPASSING order. ( this is one that means that no one may trespass .. and its automatically felony trespass for even police to do so with out a warrant as I understand it. )

as to the unlawful act question.. I see such an entrance at such a time and manor, " no uniforms but raid vest armor " as an abuse of their authority and misappropriation of public funds and equipment with out provable cause or a warrant. not to mention the acting like members of the GahinzStatsPolitzi... also known as the GASTOPO in Nazi Germany.

 

[Archangel M]

Tresspass and curtilidge are complex areas of law. There have been cases where federal agents have crossed over fences and past "no trespassing" signs and they were legal. Much depends on your states laws and the agency investigating. Under federal law, federal agents may be totally legal in crossing over your fence, while the locals would not.

Curtildge fourth amendment protects people and not places. There is no requirement that there be a physical trespass in order for there to be a violation of the fourth amendment. Even if there is a trespass, it does not necessarily mean the defendants reasonable expectation of privacy is violated.

The mere act of putting up fences or no trespassing signs on highly secluded areas of a farm will not protect open fields from a warrantless government search. Oliver v. U.S., 466 U.S. 170 (1984). However, in N.Y., if a fence is erected, or a no-trespassing sign is posted, then under New Yorks constitution, the landowner has a reasonable expectation of privacy and a search warrant is required. People v. Scott, 79 N.Y.2d 475 (1992).

There is no objective reasonable expectation of privacy in a backyard or in a semi-enclosed greenhouse from aerial observation by a police plane flying at an altitude of 400 feet in public air space. Photographic marijuana in a fenced in back yard surrounded by a ten foot wall from a plane 1000 feet above, is not a violation of an objective expectation of privacy. Know the difference between an objective and subjective expectation of privacy.

 

[Archangel M]

as to the unlawful act question.. I see such an entrance at such a time and manor, " no uniforms but raid vest armor " as an abuse of their authority and misappropriation of public funds and equipment with out provable cause or a warrant. not to mention the acting like members of the GahinzStatsPolitzi... also known as the GASTOPO in Nazi Germany.

Thats quite an assumption without hearing the LE side of the story.

If they have no good reason then pass judgement as you will and I may very well agree with you... being Pro-2nd Amendment myself.

 

[KenpoTex]

Now that's an interesting question, Tex.

I do think that given Archangel's professional experience we can accept his assertion that the actions were done within the letter of extant legislation.

It is important tho' that we weigh-up whether the actions of an arm of government are 'moral' or 'right' as well as legal.

That was exactly my point...I would not be surprised, given the firearms laws and feeling toward weapons in that state, that they were probably acting within the letter of the law. Even if their actions were not legal, they were still acting under the color of authority.

Perhaps, as Archangel has said, their real reason for being there was to look for the brother. If that was in fact the case, the incident should have ended right then...no fishing trip re. the gun issue.
However, if they were there solely for the purpose of questioning him about his ammo purchases and the guns he owns, then in my opinion, their actions were wrong. Personally, given the "long train of abuses and usurpations" committed by agents of our government at various levels when dealing with 2nd Amendment issues, I have a very hard time giving LEO's the benefit of the doubt in such situations.

 

[Archangel M]

If Im in there legally I can "fish" all I want. Its the other persons decision to "bite" or not. If the initial reason to be there was the warrant and the subject wasnt there then yes..the clock is running on how long I can remain and BS. BUT it doesnt mean I have to leave immediately. Its all a matter of reasonableness. 3-5 min to ask a question or two is different from 30-60 minutes grilling a guy simply on the rationale that "he didnt ask me to leave".

Look Im not defending the LE here either. Note I havent said they were in the "right". Theres not enough info here yet for me to land on one side or another. And to be 100% my "more to the story" sensor array is tingling on this one.

This one will bring out all the Turner Diary fans though...the black heliocopters must be spinning up.

 

[KenpoTex]

Look Im not defending the LE here either. Note I havent said they were in the "right". Theres not enough info here yet for me to land on one side or another. And to be 100% my "more to the story" sensor array is tingling on this one.

you're right, and I probably shouldn't come down on them as hard as I have thus far (at least until more information presents itself)...this is just one topic that really gets me fired up.

 

[Archangel M]

you're right, and I probably shouldn't come down on them as hard as I have thus far (at least until more information presents itself)...this is just one topic that really gets me fired up.

Fair enough.

Between the MDSP spying debacle and that Mayor getting his dogs shot, I dont think Maryland LE wants to get any more unwanted attention.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Fascism at its finest.

Where's the ACLU when stuff like this happens?

ACLU is ironically, Anti gun.

I don't understand it either.