Martial Arts Home.

[lklawson]

THanks for the replies, before I tackle weaponry I want to ensure im physically sufficient to handle myself, should I be caught without a weapon.

Fair enough. Personally, I'd say to start the other direction, with weapons (not necessarily with guns, but sticks and knives can be really handy), but you gotta do it how you think best.

I do plan on learning weaponry which is why I loved Ninjitsu to me and in my experience that was one of the most direct and self-protection oriented martial art that I was able to be apart of.

Most of the weapons taught in the majority of the Ninjitsu I've seen are more historic artifacts than modern self defense tools. That said, there are some that are applicable, if the instructor will teach them. Fist sticks (yawara), short sticks, sometimes knives (depends on the curriculum).

Now, I want to learn how to shoot firearms, but having small children and a wife that frowns upon it makes it difficult. That will happen sooner than later though.

Start slow with reasonable expectations. Here's my advice on firearms, particularly for someone with children and a wife that has reservations about it. Take the NRA Home Firearm Safety Course first and insist that your wife take it with you. The NRA, particularly in this course, is ALL ABOUT safety. Heck, it's policy for NRA Certified individuals to specifically NOT refer to it as a "weapon." Instead, it is a "firearm," (a "handgun," "rifle," "muzzle loader,") or just a "gun." But never a "weapon."

Here's sort of the order that I would recommend:

1. NRA Home Firearm Safety Course
2. NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation
3. NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course
4. NRA Refuse To Be A Victim® Seminars
5. NRA Basics of Personal Protection Outside The Home Course

But take the NRA Home Firearm Safety Course first, above all, and do whatever it takes to have her take it with you. If your children are 10 or 12 you might consider having them take the same safety course with you and your wife. If they're younger, consider the Eddie Eagle safety material for children which teaches to "Stop," "Don't Touch," "Leave the Area," and "Tell an Adult."

Full disclosure: I am an NRA member and an NRA Certified Range Safety Officer.

I plan to get into a base martial art, but at the same time do weapons training, I always cross train.

I have taken Kali before and it was some pretty awesome stuff, that and panatukan.

Good luck.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[tkizzle05]

Thank you, this was very informative, its funny because my wife mentioned taking these courses not too long ago. So I'm hoping once she gets a familiarity with the weapons and the safety, then maybe she would be more assent with the idea.

That said I still will pursue becoming physically lethal before anything else.

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[lklawson]

its funny because my wife mentioned taking these courses not too long ago. So I'm hoping once she gets a familiarity with the weapons and the safety, then maybe she would be more assent with the idea.

Jump on that opportunity! The classes are well worth it all on their own and you are right that a familiarity, particularly one such as provided by these NRA classes, often reduces anxiety about firearms and increases acceptance of them.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[tkizzle05]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone! Much appreciated.

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[WaterGal]

From what you've said, it sounds like you want multiple-hour private lessons from a master as your regular workout. That sounds awesome, but it's not going to be cheap.

 

[Chris Parker]

Without the "sport" and "competition" environment, how can you "test" your self-defense skill?

How is competition or sport testing "self defence"?

I've done Wing Chun/ TKD/ JKD/ Muay Thai/ BJJ/ Karate.
I also tried Zentai Martial arts for a week, its basically ninjutsu... loved it.

Well, it's Bujinkan, so.... yeah.

I was looking for something like Tangsoodo or Enshin Karate maybe Kyoukushin or Ninjutsu, but I am now moving to the Indianapolis area.

So... karate, karate, karate or ninjutsu? Hmm.

You make a good point about testing my skills, but I believe intense saprring against instructors would be sufficient.

Sufficient for what?

I hate to be the one to say it, but, to be 100% honest, the most effective "Self Defense" against "impossible odds" equals weapons. Weapons are sometimes known as "force multipliers" and they "even up" against what's known as "disparity of force." Disparity of force is when you're outnumbered, the other side is much bigger and stronger (and maybe better trained), or when the other side has weapons and you don't.

The most effective personal defense weapon yet invented by man is the firearm. This is followed, in no particular order, by other weapons such as knives, clubs, swords, spears, etc.

If your "ultimate goal" is "survival" against "impossible odds" then you need weapons. I'd suggest something like one of the many Filipino martial arts, Silat, or maybe a CQC that focuses heavily on baton and knife (though they tend to be somewhat "shallow" as far as lifetime martial arts training goes, imo). Follow that up, or better yet, precede it, with a healthy dose of handgun self defense courses (available from the NRA and other sources) and a Concealed Carry License in your State. "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal."

Unfortunately, this recipe doesn't mate well with some of the other stuff you've suggested that you want. You might have to decide where your priorities lie as far as your long term goals go.

I should also point out that there are other martial systems which teach weapons that may (or may not) be directly applicable to modern self defense. There are several in the Western tradition even. However, I suggested, as "go to" arts, the three which I find to be most common and available.

Good luck.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I'm really not a fan of guns at all, but then again, I live in a very different culture when it comes to violence and firearms... and, that aside, I have to agree completely with Kirk here. The bolded line is the most important... and I'll come back to that.

It certainly sounds like you're very passionate about the arts and training. This is a good thing! I was training long before I met my wife, and fortunately, she was understanding and accepting of my training. Of course, I do my best to have the equal balance, so as to keep the peace! LOL! Not that she complains when I train, but if I was there more than I'm home, well.... LOL!

One thing though...take your time. There are a ton of things out there, but there's only so much time in the day. I'm all for cross training, but I personally limit it to no more than 2 arts. IMO, anyone claiming to train in 5, 6, 7 different things, in addition to having high ranking BB's in all those arts....well, it turns into more of a jack of all trades, master of none, in addition to being a bit suspect.

Er.... "anyone", mate? I mean, my main group covers over half a dozen separate and distinct systems, plus the modern approach (which actually brings the total list up to about 10), then I train in another 4 arts outside of that... with reasonable experience in another 6 or so systems... of course, I don't have high rank in any of those... in fact, I don't have any official rank in anything other than the main one....

Fair enough. Personally, I'd say to start the other direction, with weapons (not necessarily with guns, but sticks and knives can be really handy), but you gotta do it how you think best.

Completely agreed. Over here, I'd recommend improvised weapons (EDO's - Every Day Objects, such as water bottles, magazines etc), stick weapons (short staff, hand-stick), and knife (primarily to help inform knife defence skills). If taught as a congruent whole with the rest of the system, then integrating weaponry early is fine... many traditional arts teach weaponry well and truly before unarmed methods....

Most of the weapons taught in the majority of the Ninjitsu I've seen are more historic artifacts than modern self defense tools. That said, there are some that are applicable, if the instructor will teach them. Fist sticks (yawara), short sticks, sometimes knives (depends on the curriculum).

To a great degree, yep, the Ninjutsu weaponry syllabus' are about historical weaponry... but, depending on the instructor, there might be a fair bit of less historically accurate (or simply modern usages) methods being seen. Most typically, hanbo (half staff) is a common candidate for modern self defence methods, sometimes a walking stick-style cane can be substituted instead. There can be a tendency to use historical weapons in ways that kinda contravene the usage and context of such weapons as well, though... I leave it to others to see what they think of that... I certainly have my opinion...

Start slow with reasonable expectations. Here's my advice on firearms, particularly for someone with children and a wife that has reservations about it. Take the NRA Home Firearm Safety Course first and insist that your wife take it with you. The NRA, particularly in this course, is ALL ABOUT safety. Heck, it's policy for NRA Certified individuals to specifically NOT refer to it as a "weapon." Instead, it is a "firearm," (a "handgun," "rifle," "muzzle loader,") or just a "gun." But never a "weapon."

Here's sort of the order that I would recommend:

1. NRA Home Firearm Safety Course
2. NRA FIRST Steps Pistol Orientation
3. NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course
4. NRA Refuse To Be A Victim® Seminars
5. NRA Basics of Personal Protection Outside The Home Course

But take the NRA Home Firearm Safety Course first, above all, and do whatever it takes to have her take it with you. If your children are 10 or 12 you might consider having them take the same safety course with you and your wife. If they're younger, consider the Eddie Eagle safety material for children which teaches to "Stop," "Don't Touch," "Leave the Area," and "Tell an Adult."

Completely seconded! I wouldn't even think about considering firearms for defensive means without this type of training first and foremost.

Full disclosure: I am an NRA member and an NRA Certified Range Safety Officer.

Ha, well, I won't hold that against you...

To the original post:

Honestly, I'm going to advise you to forget all your criteria. Frankly, they're just going to get in the way, or they are fairly irrelevant. I'll go through it to see if I can clarify what I mean.

Hey all, I'm on a new quest I'm looking for a Martial Arts Home. I went through plenty styles, and love them all, now I just want to settle on one and grow within that organization.

Okay. The first (and most important) qualifying question when looking at something new is to look at previous experiences and see what you thought of them... so what have you done (you've already listed a few... anything else?), and what did you like or not like about them?

I'm not looking into sports or competition, but purely self-defense as a whole.

Okay, what do you understand of self defence and it's requirements or reality? I've noticed that many, if not most martial art schools that talk about being for "self defence" aren't really... what they are are teaching fighting methods, which might or might not be related to the context of modern self defence... but more commonly not.

I'm now 27, My ultimate Goal at this point is survival, I want to focus heavily on self-defense against impossible odds.

Er... right. No. There's a reason they're called "impossible" odds....

I want to learn weaponry and being 5'9 and 205lbs, my greatest assets right now are my speed and strength.

What makes you think those are your assets...?

What I mean by that is that many arts work to defeat strength and speed... so, if that's what you're coming in with, you'll most likely try to use what you consider your "assets", which would leave you missing the way the art you're learning works...

I like to fight on the outside, in and out very fast dealing 100% damage with each strike.

So you want to train in a system of "survival... self defence against impossible odds", but you're going to dictate the way you want it to handle such things due to your own preferences, separate and unrelated to the actual system itself? Additionally, moving "in and out very fast, dealing 100% damage with each strike", uh... nope. The moving in and out fast that you're mentioning here is more a sporting/sparring methodology, and "dealing 100% damage with each strike" is simply not the best approach in all situations. To be frank, combining this with the previous comments, it sounds like you're falling into a common trap... fantasising about the way some imagined "fight" would go... the sense of power you think you'd have... and it's just not realistic.

I'm not a fan of grappling, but I need that in my arsenal should I ever get put on the ground.

Small note, ground fighting is on the ground, grappling is just anything involving holding the opponent... which can be on the ground, but is certainly not relegated to only ground work. Most traditional systems have almost all their grappling standing.... but really, all you need are a few solid escapes, and an understanding of positioning.

I prefer to kick with speed to close the distance.

Again, I'd advise against anything that has you dictating how you want whichever art you end up in to do things. Nothing will be what you're after if you do that.

I Keep in shape and am looking for something that will push me to the limits of my physical abilities.

Crossfit. Or a decathlon.

That said, BJJ gave me one of the hardest, most intense workouts I've had... those guys are fit!

I dont mind learning culture and history, that actually interests me a lot.

Cool. Books.

Well, I hope you all could lead me to some great things to consider.

Thank you all and happy new year!

Forget what you want the system to be. Forget what you think your assets or preferences are. Visit as many schools around you as you can. The instructor and the training group are far more important than what is being taught. Judo under a good instructor is better than Bujinkan under a terrible one... and vice versa.

 

[tkizzle05]

Thank you for your response, I agree with everything your saying. I guess I am searching for unrealistic specifics, but my heart is only concerned with survival. I have to be in shape and physically powerful, for that I need to be training daily. My entire body has to be prepared for a life or death situation, hands, feet, knees. I might as well become a marine no? This Budo place seems legit, the wife and I are going to take the NRA Course together but I will either go back to Kali or see what these other arts have to offer as far as weaponry. In Zentai, we actually practiced knife fighting and gun defense, so its not old weaponry.

And this is where I am torn because I believe Kyokushin gives me the best conditioning out of them all, I've done BJJ/MMA for 2 years and it was fun, but most of the conditioning came fro MMA not rolling. Again I am not interested in sports so MMA is out of the question. I already have a great BJJ home should I go back to it.

 

[MJS]

Er.... "anyone", mate? I mean, my main group covers over half a dozen separate and distinct systems, plus the modern approach (which actually brings the total list up to about 10), then I train in another 4 arts outside of that... with reasonable experience in another 6 or so systems... of course, I don't have high rank in any of those... in fact, I don't have any official rank in anything other than the main one....

Well, I think you know what I'm talking about. Sure, in the art you do, there're numerous sub-systems, for lack of better wording on my part, contained within the main art. The difference though, is that in your case, and most likely in the case of the Jinenkan and Genbukan, where the standards are much higher, yeah, I could justify it. But when you see someone who's in their late 30's-40's, and is claiming 6, 6th. 7th. or 8th degree BB's, well, sorry, but unless you're training 24-7, I'm going to raise the BS flag on that.

 

[jks9199]

Forget what you want the system to be. Forget what you think your assets or preferences are. Visit as many schools around you as you can. The instructor and the training group are far more important than what is being taught. Judo under a good instructor is better than Bujinkan under a terrible one... and vice versa.

This is really the key and some great advice. Every art has strengths and weaknesses, and you have to train it properly to learn how to use it to protect yourself.

 

[SENC-33]

Survival RBSD is what I do. You wont find a place that covers everything you want which was my dilemma so I took matters into my own hands and incorporated my training into a home gym in my heated barn. I recruited some like minded individuals and we have been training for several years now. North Carolina has a huge military presence so finding former and/or current soldiers (mostly special ops guys) wasn't a problem. We have been kicking around the idea of moving our gear to a warehouse district and renting some space. Not forming a school but an open invite to people who want to train this way and are willing to pitch in for monthly rent.


This approach could possibly work for you

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How is competition or sport testing "self defence"?

You seem like to use the term "self-defense" a lot. I have collected some opinions from another forum about this term. It may be interest to hear other people's opinion about "self-defense". I have no intention to change your mind. Just to point out that not everybody feel the same way as you do.

- It is difficult for a passive person to beat an aggressive fighter. Self defense mentality is in conflict with martial training. Without proper mindset it becomes bad acting.

- Training for self-defense is the catch phrase for people who don't train realistically, but want to convince themselves they are.

- When someone says they are training for self defense, usually they mean that they are learning to fight, but that they don't fight.

- It seems if this is the goal, training track would be a better use of your time than training MA.

- It's best if we can admit that "self defense" is western marketing gimmick. You can't sell TMA to suburban kids by telling their soccer moms you want to brainwash them to create a hardened fighter.

- In all probability, referring to MA as 'self-defense' was far more tasteful to upper-class Victorian-era sensibilities than 'hard, bruising, sweat-wringing training'. For the most part, these were the ones who were first exposed to Asian MA in the West.

- Self defense is studied by those who do not have time or a want of committing to studying TMA.

- It's a fact: 95% of people who say they study martial arts for "self-defense" are paranoid weirdos.

 

[SENC-33]

I have a good reason why sport fighting and controlled sparring should be limited when training "self defense". Sport fighting and sparring is a mutual agreement between 2 people to go back and forth on one another for a disclosed period of time or until one of you cries uncle or taps out.

A proper self defense mindset in my opinion is me strike you without you returning fire. Of course it doesn't always work out that way but win, lose or draw you aren't going to be fighting for 2 minutes or more in a realistic situation. Most conflicts last under 10 seconds and sparring or sport fighting don't really cover that reality.

 

[tkizzle05]

Wow, interesting perspectives gentleman...

I love all the feedback and welcome it.

For me, my body must be conditioned, there won't always be a weapon around. Everything else follows, knives, sticks, guns...

Also in most martial arts a kick is a kick a punch is a punch, execution and theory may differ, but in short your hitting with your body parts.

That said, no one can prepare for the unexpected, but once your in a brawl or life threatening situation, knowing how to best use your body/weapons to escape and subdue the attacker helps tremendously.

The Martial Arts is my vehicle to accomplishing this goal the best I can.



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[Spinedoc]

I'm really not a fan of guns at all, but then again, I live in a very different culture when it comes to violence and firearms....

Thank god there are civilized people in the world.....I can only hope my backwards nation can someday get over its gun obsession and do what you Aussies did in the 90's.

I've shot guns, many guns...grew up hunting, shot em in the military, and even after.....but I've seen too many people suffer the consequences...taken care of too many young patients....seen way too much both in the military and after. I will NEVER, ever carry or handle a gun again. I live without fear of any physical encounters but will always try to avoid them, and more importantly avoid the situations where they can occur....I train because I like it, because I love bushido, for inner growth....inner peace, and strength.

(This is also why I contribute thousands of dollars every year to enact much tougher gun laws)........YMMV...

 

[Kframe]

Spinedoc I contribute just as much to undue your contributions.. Does that make you and I enemies?

 

[Spinedoc]

Spinedoc I contribute just as much to undue your contributions.. Does that make you and I enemies?

Ha, not at all. Everyone, regardless of their views, should be involved and advocate, donate to things they believe in. I don't have any enemies......

 

[TKDTony2179]

THanks for the replies, before I tackle weaponry I want to ensure im physically sufficient to handle myself, should I be caught without a weapon. I do plan on learning weaponry which is why I loved Ninjitsu to me and in my experience that was one of the most direct and self-protection oriented martial art that I was able to be apart of. Now, I want to learn how to shoot firearms, but having small children and a wife that frowns upon it makes it difficult. That will happen sooner than later though. I plan to get into a base martial art, but at the same time do weapons training, I always cross train.

I have taken Kali before and it was some pretty awesome stuff, that and panatukan.

Well, I was going to say try to find a FMA but if you have done that then you really have reached a lot of areas of fighting ranges and styles. Why not take what you have and join a MMA school. Try to combine what you have learn over the yrs and see if it works against a different method of fighting which sport mma will have that.

Also try to find a training partner that is in the military that may be home sometimes that will practice weapon disarmament with you. Even a local police officer need to practice their skills.

 

[Chris Parker]

Thank you for your response, I agree with everything your saying.

Okay, cool.

I guess I am searching for unrealistic specifics, but my heart is only concerned with survival. I have to be in shape and physically powerful, for that I need to be training daily. My entire body has to be prepared for a life or death situation, hands, feet, knees.

Why? Do you live in a war zone? If you need to be prepared for a life and death situation, the answer (as mentioned earlier) is weaponry. But make sure you're not simply acting out of a misplaced fear or paranoia... because, honestly, you don't have to be that in shape or physically powerful, really. It's just not necessary for anything other than competitive systems (where things go for a number of rounds, and the skill set is matched).

I might as well become a marine no? This Budo place seems legit, the wife and I are going to take the NRA Course together but I will either go back to Kali or see what these other arts have to offer as far as weaponry. In Zentai, we actually practiced knife fighting and gun defense, so its not old weaponry.

Not sure what the "Budo" place is... do you mean the Bujinkan group you found in Indiana? As far as Zentai teaching some modern approaches to weaponry, that's not too uncommon for the Bujinkan, really, so no surprise there. Hatsumi likes playing with guns....

And this is where I am torn because I believe Kyokushin gives me the best conditioning out of them all, I've done BJJ/MMA for 2 years and it was fun, but most of the conditioning came fro MMA not rolling. Again I am not interested in sports so MMA is out of the question. I already have a great BJJ home should I go back to it.

You'll find the best conditioning is in sports arts, though. So, if you want conditioning, fitness etc, and to have that in your martial art, it's going to be a sports system 99% of the time. The reason is simply that there, it has a purpose... it just doesn't have anywhere near as much applicability in other systems.

Well, I think you know what I'm talking about. Sure, in the art you do, there're numerous sub-systems, for lack of better wording on my part, contained within the main art. The difference though, is that in your case, and most likely in the case of the Jinenkan and Genbukan, where the standards are much higher, yeah, I could justify it. But when you see someone who's in their late 30's-40's, and is claiming 6, 6th. 7th. or 8th degree BB's, well, sorry, but unless you're training 24-7, I'm going to raise the BS flag on that.

Ha, yeah, I know what you meant... of course, for the record, I was meaning all the stuff I do outside of my Ninjutsu classes... other forms of kenjutsu, Iaido, Kyudo.... again, no rank claimed or awarded (in some, I'm about as rank a beginner as you can get, ha!), but I still get around in terms of doing a fair bit....

You seem like to use the term "self-defense" a lot. I have collected some opinions from another forum about this term. It may be interest to hear other people's opinion about "self-defense". I have no intention to change your mind. Just to point out that not everybody feel the same way as you do.

I used the term because you did, though. I was responding directly to your quote, where you asked how you could test self defence skill without sport or competition... it has nothing to do with my liking the term or not (I actually prefer others, but use self defence for a more consistent and immediately recognizable frame of reference, for ease of communication, really). I was asking you directly how you saw a correlation between them, when there isn't really much of one in the first place.

But let's look at your other opinions.

- It is difficult for a passive person to beat an aggressive fighter. Self defense mentality is in conflict with martial training. Without proper mindset it becomes bad acting.

If the focus is on "beating" the other person, then you've already moved out of self defence (which is about having an aim of "get home safe", not "beat the other guy") and into the realm of fighting. I would be curious as to exactly what the person quoted here meant by "self defence mentality is in conflict with martial training" (I agree, from my perspective, but would be interested in if we mean the same thing), as the first half implies martial (fighting) training only. The last comment, especially if applied to proper self defence training (such as scenario training) is absolutely correct.

- Training for self-defense is the catch phrase for people who don't train realistically, but want to convince themselves they are.

Yeah... I'd tell that person to google Richard Dmitri, Jim Wagner, Rory Miller, Geoff Thompson (especially his Animal Day work), et al and see if they really want to talk to us about who is and who is not training realistically.... if they were on MAP, I'd tell them to have a chat with JWT over there....

In other words, no.

- When someone says they are training for self defense, usually they mean that they are learning to fight, but that they don't fight.

Can certainly be true. Doesn't really deal with what self defence is, only with perceptions of what is seen in martial arts classes as being self defence, really. And I'd agree there for the most part.

- It seems if this is the goal, training track would be a better use of your time than training MA.

Possibly. But, again, that's only going to have limited applicability. The best skills to look to are awareness, and education.

- It's best if we can admit that "self defense" is western marketing gimmick. You can't sell TMA to suburban kids by telling their soccer moms you want to brainwash them to create a hardened fighter.

Again, it certainly can be. I've railed against martial arts that have no self defence aspect being marketed as such for a long time now.

- In all probability, referring to MA as 'self-defense' was far more tasteful to upper-class Victorian-era sensibilities than 'hard, bruising, sweat-wringing training'. For the most part, these were the ones who were first exposed to Asian MA in the West.

There's a few vagaries and assumptions in here... it's kinda like a cold-reading truism... not enough to argue with, so it gets accepted as truth. I don't think it's correct, though... mainly as it's only looking at a specific locational and social application of the term, without looking beyond.

- Self defense is studied by those who do not have time or a want of committing to studying TMA.

Kind of a yes and no. It can also be studied in conjunction with a TMA (as I do), as a completely separate approach (such as an RBSD system, which is then integrated into the martial art school's approach), or it can be done instead of a TMA as it, well, suits the needs and desires better. And, if it does, in fact, suit the needs better than a TMA, it's not about time or want of committing, it's about recognizing what's the better approach. After all, do you say that someone who wants to eat cereal for breakfast does so as they lack the time or want to commit to becoming a chef?

- It's a fact: 95% of people who say they study martial arts for "self-defense" are paranoid weirdos.

Ha, not sure that constitutes a "fact" there... nor is accurate, either...

I have a good reason why sport fighting and controlled sparring should be limited when training "self defense". Sport fighting and sparring is a mutual agreement between 2 people to go back and forth on one another for a disclosed period of time or until one of you cries uncle or taps out.

A proper self defense mindset in my opinion is me strike you without you returning fire. Of course it doesn't always work out that way but win, lose or draw you aren't going to be fighting for 2 minutes or more in a realistic situation. Most conflicts last under 10 seconds and sparring or sport fighting don't really cover that reality.

I'd take it a lot further than that, as there are a huge number of differences. One that I went through a while back is the timeline differences between a sporting contest and a self defence situation (assuming the self defence situation became physical). Let's see if I can find it again...

A match fight is very simple to understand. It is clear, defined, monitored, and (to a real degree) predictable. By that I mean that a competitor will have a fair degree of understanding of what they might expect to encounter in the ring, what attacks they might face, what weapons they might need to defend against (swords in Kendo, fists and feet in Tae Kwon Do, throws and chokes in Judo, chokes and armbars in BJJ, fists, feet, throws, arm-bars, chokes in MMA as examples), and the rough expected timelines and conditions (3 x 5 minute rounds, what the ground surface will be, when the ref will stop it etc). The other very important thing to realise is that a competition style system will focus on attacking, as that is how you gain points and win. We'll get back to this.

A self defence environment, on the other hand, has none of the above clarity. It could happen at any time, in any location, you could be facing any number, any weapons, any attacks, and no-one is going to step in and stop it (no ref). There is no preditable condition (are you on grass, or concrete? Is it just shouting, or are there going to be punches? Is it over in a few seconds [the most common are, by the way], or are you going to have to deal with an ongoing encounter?). These are just a few ways in which MMA and self defence are very different.

To highlight that, let's look at a timeline of each next to each other. In an MMA bout, you will have any amount of time to have your general preparation. This is the time you spend working on general skill-development in your gym. Then you learn about your fight. You will then typically have 4-6 or 8 weeks specific preparation. As you will often be made aware of who you're opponent is, and you can prepare for them specifically. You will be able to study their movements, work out counters to their favourite moves, and kick up your training to be at your best for the event. The fight itself is then split into various sections. First is the pre-fight, which could last a few minutes to an hour or so. Depending on your level, it could include an interview, ring entrance, an explanation of the rules (again), your opponents ring entrance, and more. Then you get the fight itself, which may be a number of short rounds during which you get an adrenaline dump during the rounds, and an endorphin rush between. Then repeat. This may be 15 - 20 minutes. The post-fight could be again an hour or more, and is very well managed, including physios to manage injuries, trainers to tend to you, even a massage if you're lucky....

A self defence situation is a bit different. The general preparation has the same timeline (any varied amount of time), however the focus needs to cover a larger skill set than an MMA fighter would require. An MMA fighter, for instance, doesn't need to knwo how to disarm a shotgun wielding opponent, or know non-damaging security holds, but when training for real situations, these and many more skills need to be addressed. There is not really much time for specific preparation, it may be a few seconds, or a minute or so as someone yells and pushes you. Or spits in your face. Or asks you the time... As stated, the fight itself is most commonly between 3 and 10 seconds, it can last longer, but not often. And incredibly rarely the 15-20 minutes of a match fight. The post fight can be very bad. There is often no-one to help you manage injuries or any other factors, and the effects can last for years (particularly emotional and psychological factors).

Of course, that's just one example of differences, without even getting into tactical, psychological, social, and other aspects...

Wow, interesting perspectives gentleman...

I love all the feedback and welcome it.

Cool.

For me, my body must be conditioned, there won't always be a weapon around. Everything else follows, knives, sticks, guns...

Again, why? It's just not realistically needed... it can be good, and I certainly advocate staying healthy and in shape, but the degree you're talking about is just not necessary... and smacks of a degree of fear, honestly. Did you know that the most popular form of self defence training, if we're going to look at it in it's broadest perspective, is body-building? Essentially, it's a way of advertising "I'm big and strong, so please don't attack me..." (of course, there are other reasons, but this is a fairly common one, especially on an unconscious level... the other primary one is a desire to be above, or beyond others... which is a rather unhealthy ego issue).

Also in most martial arts a kick is a kick a punch is a punch, execution and theory may differ, but in short your hitting with your body parts.

None of which is the important part. Nor is it what works, when you get down to it. In fact, it's pretty much irrelevant.

That said, no one can prepare for the unexpected, but once your in a brawl or life threatening situation, knowing how to best use your body/weapons to escape and subdue the attacker helps tremendously.

Sure... but that means understanding tactical application, which doesn't require what you're looking at.

The Martial Arts is my vehicle to accomplishing this goal the best I can.

Okay. Hit the gym. Lots. Steroids can help with the look, too (not advocating, simply stating reality). Martial arts to accomplish it? Can happen... but really, only in competition systems.

Thank god there are civilized people in the world.....I can only hope my backwards nation can someday get over its gun obsession and do what you Aussies did in the 90's.

I've shot guns, many guns...grew up hunting, shot em in the military, and even after.....but I've seen too many people suffer the consequences...taken care of too many young patients....seen way too much both in the military and after. I will NEVER, ever carry or handle a gun again. I live without fear of any physical encounters but will always try to avoid them, and more importantly avoid the situations where they can occur....I train because I like it, because I love bushido, for inner growth....inner peace, and strength.

(This is also why I contribute thousands of dollars every year to enact much tougher gun laws)........YMMV...

Yeah, I've shot before as well.... and can honestly say, for an experience, it was fun (on the range). But I still have no love for them... and am again happy to be in a culture where they aren't considered an almost definite aspect of handling violence.

 

[SENC-33]

Thank god there are civilized people in the world.....I can only hope my backwards nation can someday get over its gun obsession and do what you Aussies did in the 90's.

I've shot guns, many guns...grew up hunting, shot em in the military, and even after.....but I've seen too many people suffer the consequences...taken care of too many young patients....seen way too much both in the military and after. I will NEVER, ever carry or handle a gun again. I live without fear of any physical encounters but will always try to avoid them, and more importantly avoid the situations where they can occur....I train because I like it, because I love bushido, for inner growth....inner peace, and strength.

(This is also why I contribute thousands of dollars every year to enact much tougher gun laws)........YMMV...

Tougher gun laws = Harder for "law abiding" citizens to protect themselves from criminals. We don't have a gun problem in the United States we have a people don't give a @#$& about innocent life problem. How many people die every day at the hands of a drunk driver? Does the car get the blame? The alcohol? The drunk gets the blame. But let somebody shoot a group of people and the blame goes FIRST to the weapon.

 

[Spinedoc]

Tougher gun laws = Harder for "law abiding" citizens to protect themselves from criminals. We don't have a gun problem in the United States we have a people don't give a @#$& about innocent life problem. How many people die every day at the hands of a drunk driver? Does the car get the blame? The alcohol? The drunk gets the blame. But let somebody shoot a group of people and the blame goes FIRST to the weapon.

That's the party line of the NRA I realize, but when one considers that the overwhelming majority of guns used in illegal activities were purchased legally, then that begins to color that perception.

Also, you are more likely to have family member shoot you, or have an accident, than you are to have some wide eyed psychopath attack you. But of course, that interferes with the great 'merican myth. I get to thankfully, lobby frequently on the Hill for healthcare issues (I was involved in the ACA, specifically, the ACO portion), and when asked about gun control, am happy to share my thoughts.

But this is completely off topic. I was just agreeing with Chris.

Mike