Martial Arts and physical fitness

[StraightRazor]

Do you guys think that martial arts are really an effective method of physical fitness? Some schools advertise that they provide physical fitness. Is there a solid reason to look at martial arts as exercise? Should you even approach the arts with anything except effective self defense as the primary motivation?

 

[Faye]

Why not? I can't speak for all martial arts, but in my TKD class, they really work you, and you are so sweaty (great cardio exercise!!) In terms of goals, some people learn MA for self defense, some for the sport (tournaments), and some do it for the sole purpose of physical fitness.

 

[Flatlander]

Do you guys think that martial arts are really an effective method of physical fitness? Some schools advertise that they provide physical fitness. Is there a solid reason to look at martial arts as exercise? Should you even approach the arts with anything except effective self defense as the primary motivation?

My thought here is that physical fitness is really important for self defense. So if you're serious about martial arts and self defense, physical conditioning is tantamount to your success. It doesn't make a lot of sense to know how to defend, if you don't have enough breath to do it.

 

[loki09789]

My thought here is that physical fitness is really important for self defense. So if you're serious about martial arts and self defense, physical conditioning is tantamount to your success. It doesn't make a lot of sense to know how to defend, if you don't have enough breath to do it.

Agreed, who cares if you are technically 'perfect' or naturally agile if you can not deliver with any kind of force or sustain power generation/avoid fatigue?

The question is what sport comparison of fitness is appropriate as a martial artist? I think the fitness of a professional boxer is a little unreaslistic for most people to maintain (family, job, life in general...), I think the strength/power of a football lineman is a bit much to maintain as well....

How should a martial artist, especially if self defense is the goal, train fitness and conditioning?

Not a bad topic this time Straightrazor.

 

[Flatlander]

Not a bad topic this time Straightrazor.

Quite good, actually.

The question is what sport comparison of fitness is appropriate as a martial artist?

How should a martial artist, especially if self defense is the goal, train fitness and conditioning?

It's tough to draw the line anywhere, really. I mean, it's fair to say that there's nothing wrong with eventually having the stamina to go 12 rounds.

With defense in mind, I think its fair that one should be able to run full tilt for at least three or four blocks, and then defend oneself from say, two attackers, and then run two or three more blocks. As I said, totally arbitrary, but decent start, no?

 

[loki09789]

Been playing ice hockey for a few years now and have found that the athletic traits of hockey correspond nicely to self defense focused martial arts conditioning.

The ability to read a situation and react quickly with a good choice, make powerful/quick direction changes, and generate good power as fatigue creates what is known as "an increasing environment of stress" in sports/conditioning circles have all translated well.

I have a great workout guide that covers off/pre/during and post season training for hockey. OF course I live in the real world where training isn't my main job so I have to modify this 'fantasy workout plan' (if I was a rich/scholarshiped college kid...maybe), but it has been very helpful.

The most important thing that I notice is the emphasis on interval bursts of intensity instead of only sustained cardio work outs. This simulates the all out effort of a hockey shift (30-90 seconds ideally) and that time sort of relates to the time/duration of intensity in most 'theoretical' street encounters.

 

[Flatlander]

Sounds great! I can't sprint a block. Smoker

 

[loki09789]

Sounds great! I can't sprint a block. Smoker

Not a smoker, but I do run like a sissy girl....

In all seriousness though, among the commercially successful systems out there based on my own experience, TKD schools train really hard in terms of fitness and conditioning in general. THere may be other specific system schools/clubs that push hard but I think the sport/olympic link that TKD has promotes this kind of athleticism. ONe of the best goalies in my son's hockey league studies TKD and he may not be 'the best' goalie but he is by far the most athletically fit/conditioned. His flexibility is a huge asset. He can close up the five hole and huge stretches of the bottom of the net as a direct benefit of TKD flexibility and lower body skill.

 

[Marginal]

Do you guys think that martial arts are really an effective method of physical fitness? Some schools advertise that they provide physical fitness. Is there a solid reason to look at martial arts as exercise? Should you even approach the arts with anything except effective self defense as the primary motivation?

There's a study on pubmed that found that there are few aerobic benefits to practicing TKD, but anaerobic capacity was increased by 30% in the studied practitioers.

That aside, I largely started training because I thought that I'd actually stick with a MA, and that a MA would get me moving, which would help me get more physically fit. Studying TKD upped my energy, and led to me taking up running and other conditioning outside of class. So I can say that it did help my fitness level signifigantly. Not from TKD alone, but from it encouragin me to be more active overall so I didn't fall behind. That, and the better conditioned you are, the better you're gonna do in a fight regardless.

 

[Tony]

In my class I can guarantee you are going to sweat every lesson no matter what the weather and over here in England our class has no AC.
I think its imperative you are fit because an attacker isn't going to stop attacking you just because you get a stitch or you need to sit down.
But if you incapacitate an attacker then you can save yourself a lot of energy instead of running away but atleast if you get the physical exercise you'll be fit enough to run like crazy.

 

[The Kai]

Fitness is paramount to your training and can help you from injuring yourself!

The problem is what fitness. weight lifting? IMHO not a great match and takes away more of your free time. Running personally hate it, so I rollerblade(Which strenghtens you adducter and abducter muscles) and Bike and swim (seasonal). Lots of repition training also bang the bags to train your body to deliver power at the point of impact.
Above all experiment find what works for you and what is fun (makes much easier to do). everyone is different
Todd

 

[OULobo]

The best way to train anything, to get good at any one thing, is to do it a lot. If you want to get good at punching, punch a lot; if you want to get good at running, run a lot; if you want to get good at fighting, fight a lot. If you want to get good at lifting pointlessly heavy bars off your chest, then do a lot of benchpresses.

I do a lot of running, because I walk a lot (I do the swimming and biking because it's fun), and I do a lot of calistenics because I move my body a lot. I don't do them with the express intent of supplimenting my training.

I excercise because it's fun. It's nice to feel good, to look good, to be healthy, to make up for the horribly fattening food I eat, but mostly because it's fun. That's the same reason I train the MAs. I don't see training MAs as a method of physical fitness, although you gain some of those benefits. If my intent was physical fitness, I'd imagine there are better ways.

 

[Tgace]

I like to look back on my military days and parallel this to say a road march. The concept is to be able to "hump" a combat load (75lb+) a distance resembling what you may see in combat. I had to do 20mi. to graduate AIT. Now just marching was "physical training" in and of itself, but if you wanted to be in shape enough to do anything at the end of it, you better have good cardio fitness and muscular endurance. These traits, while improved by "doing it" needed cross training in running, lifting, calisthenics, foot toughening etc. if you wanted to do it well.

 

[StraightRazor]

Agreed, who cares if you are technically 'perfect' or naturally agile if you can not deliver with any kind of force or sustain power generation/avoid fatigue?

The question is what sport comparison of fitness is appropriate as a martial artist? I think the fitness of a professional boxer is a little unreaslistic for most people to maintain (family, job, life in general...), I think the strength/power of a football lineman is a bit much to maintain as well....

How should a martial artist, especially if self defense is the goal, train fitness and conditioning?

Not a bad topic this time Straightrazor.

Thanks. I was thinking about this as I saw a TV program about those Russian Brother boxers and the training they go through. Even pro-sports guys like your example of hockey players and football players. They dont rely on just doing their sport to keep them in shape for their sport. With that in mind, some martial arts people Ive met seem to think that just doing their art is enough. I was wondering if thats right. Do you "need" to be in perfect shape to defend yourself? I can see sport fighters needing it, but what about the average person? Is class enough to qualify as exercise?

 

[loki09789]

Thanks. I was thinking about this as I saw a TV program about those Russian Brother boxers and the training they go through. Even pro-sports guys like your example of hockey players and football players. They dont rely on just doing their sport to keep them in shape for their sport. With that in mind, some martial arts people Ive met seem to think that just doing their art is enough. I was wondering if thats right. Do you "need" to be in perfect shape to defend yourself? I can see sport fighters needing it, but what about the average person? Is class enough to qualify as exercise?

I think the brothers you are referring to are the Klichko (sp?) brothers and I was laughing when you mentioned the training they go through because I know that at least on of them is a doctor of sports medicine. They flip roles as fighter and trainer depending on who is up for the next match....almost spooky how it could be life imitating art ala Rocky IV with "Ivan Drago" training all scientific and high tech....

Perfect will depend on what you expect to face. I don't think that class is enough though. Thank God that most people who train don't really statistically have to worry too much to test that idea.

When all else fails, get on a bike, grab a jump rope or find a cardio/motion based activity that you like and stick to it. Do it fast and do it slow, do it for time/distance or do it for repetitions/cycles - basically play with it for variety and challenge. The fitness will come. Someone mentioned basic PT type exercises - I think that is great and cheap as hell too.

There should be foundation of strength and endurance first (about 2/3 months of minimum of 3x's a week of simple strength and about 90 minutes weekly total of cardio) before you consider it, but I think that the interval/burst exercises will benefit civilian/self defense training the most. For some this might be that regularly scheduled sparring or conditioning class at the school itself. This is great because it is using the motions that you will apply for PT. Two birds with one stone. I like jumping rope for intervals because it doesn't take up much space and can be a 'home work out/low tech' and easy to fit into the routine.

I am getting creeped out, we are on the same wavelength....don't get use to it though

 

[Littledragon]

Do you guys think that martial arts are really an effective method of physical fitness? Some schools advertise that they provide physical fitness. Is there a solid reason to look at martial arts as exercise? Should you even approach the arts with anything except effective self defense as the primary motivation?

Well I would say in general Martial Arts movtive was for self-defense but look at it now, you have Cardio Kick-Boxing classes, Tai Chi, Tae Bo (not really a martial art but includes some kicks and things like that) But martial arts first primary goals was indeed for physical and mental fitness as of why the 18 Hands of Lo Han was established, from there they converted it yo be used practically for self defense situations.

But Martial Arts in my opinion is the best method of physical fitness, it unites the mind and body in one which no other type of activity does. Boxing doesnt do it, soccer doesnt do it or basketball. Martial Arts contains teachings which no other sport has. So to answer your question martial arts is extremly effective for physical fitness. Not only does it strengthen the body but the spiritual and mental element as well.
You should approach martial arts expecting self defense as well because you can be the strongest and most fit person in the world and still get killed in the street if you don't know how to sucesfully defend yourself. In my adivce go for both because regardless if the martial art just focuses on self defense, you still get better exercise than any other sport will provide.

TAREK

 

[MichiganTKD]

Speaking from personal experience, just doing forms 10 times in a row correctly is a great way to learn that A. It really helps to be physically fit to practice serious martial arts. and B. Martial arts will get you into shape whether you want to be or not. It is just about impossible to practice good form, basics, and sparring and not be in shape.

 

[Phoenix44]

I can't see how doing a couple hundred punches and kicks, sparring, one-steps, and grappling could NOT be a good fitness activity. And, of course, most schools put an emphasis on specific fitness activities as part of the class.

It's estimated that an hour of karate burns over 400 calories for a 150 lb man. That's about the same as cycling, but not as much as running. I'd guess that cardio-kickboxing is more aerobic than martial arts, because it's sustained.

 

[Littledragon]

Speaking from personal experience, just doing forms 10 times in a row correctly is a great way to learn that A. It really helps to be physically fit to practice serious martial arts. and B. Martial arts will get you into shape whether you want to be or not. It is just about impossible to practice good form, basics, and sparring and not be in shape.

Yes I totally agree with you.

No matter what the martial arts main motive is, just practicing martial arts gives you a great exercise because like I said martial arts is such a great form of physical fitness because it unites mind body and spirit together.

 

[Kevin Walker]

Do you guys think that martial arts are really an effective method of physical fitness? Some schools advertise that they provide physical fitness. Is there a solid reason to look at martial arts as exercise? Should you even approach the arts with anything except effective self defense as the primary motivation?

When I first began my martial arts training in 1964, weight training and jogging etc., were discouraged as 'unnecessary', that all the physical fitness you receive will be incidental to your harsh Judo/Karate/Jiu-jitsu workouts.

In some ways this is true, we were taught then that you would always apply your martial arts in a street encounter "as you are". The mugger will jump you when you're ill, depressed, injured, wounded, old, young, or whatever state of being you happen to be at the moment - the mugger doesn't care. You have to apply jiu-jitsu at whatever condition you happen to be in when attacked!

But secondary training with the weights, or track & field (or ballet), or gymnastics does enhance your martial arts ability. But you shouldn't give up martial arts if you cannot press weights or run like a deer anymore! Martial Arts is not professional football with a five year career, martial arts is a life long pursuit!

But as you get over 40 (in my case 50) and your old tournament injuries prevent you from doing a flying cresent kick to the head, you go back to your basics and rely on 'technique' over 'strength'. So if I get jumped, and can't talk my way out of a beating, I'll just use technique and method to cripple my attacker with good jiu-jitsu!