manriki gusari

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angrywhitepajamas

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Hello,
I've just been given a copy of NINJA WEAPONS CHAIN AND SHURIKEN by Charles v. Gruzanski, and I was wondering what people think of it.
 

psi_radar

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It was my college roommate's weapon of choice. He was a drunk, not a ninja. A nasty peice of work, that weighted chain. Took a nice divot out of his forehead with it one night when he was swinging it around. To his credit, he did not go down.
 
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angrywhitepajamas

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heretic888 said:
Was the manriki gusari actually a "ninja" weapon??

As far as Ive read, the ninja used chain weapons, but different varietiesof them.
 
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ShaolinWolf

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yeah, and alot of Chinese assassins used manriki too..
 
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MisterMike

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The Samurai warriors also carried manriki.
 

Bujingodai

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I have a set but haven't trained with it much. I like the shoge much more. But again that takes alot of sublties which I am working on. Chain weapons for me are the biggest challenge. But I have never heard whether it was a ninja specific weapon, I have seen some old drawings I think with them being depicted as such. But I could be wrong.
 

Cryozombie

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I dunno about that book, I am working on Manriki techniques now however.

I need some basic movements, strikes, locks, and throws with it to earn my next Kyu rank.
 
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ShaolinWolf

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yeah, it's an awesome weapon, because it so practical...maybe not with it being a chain, but anything long and very maneuverable with plenty of joints works, even rope. Although, the rope dark is a whole other issue from the manriki...lol...man, gotta love the rope dart!
 

tshadowchaser

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While practiceing outside of a place I used to work at I lost hold of my Manriki and it traveld upward in a beautiful arc which ended going through the light bar on the ambulance i was driveing that day. My boss was not impressed. :idunno:
It is a great weapon to train with and has many uses that may not be apparent the first time you pick it up
Have fun training with it
 
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angrywhitepajamas

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any tipps on training with it?? I just did this only with a manriki :btg:


LoL
 
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angrywhitepajamas

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I forgot to mention It was to myself.....
 

Cryozombie

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angrywhitepajamas said:
I forgot to mention It was to myself.....

Yes. Buy a rope "training Manriki" they dont hurt as much.
 

sojobow

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Technopunk said:
Yes. Buy a rope "training Manriki" they dont hurt as much.
Another would be to just cut a small slice in 2 tennis balls and cover each end of the Manriki. I personally prefer the tennis balls or nothing at all. The weight of the weapon has some significance even though most people I've spoken to consider the Manriki as only a secondary weapon. But, it's a real good "secondary weapon."

I found a couple of websites with actual techniques listed (used a search engine).

No pain - No gain.
 

Cryozombie

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sojobow said:
Another would be to just cut a small slice in 2 tennis balls and cover each end of the Manriki. I personally prefer the tennis balls or nothing at all. The weight of the weapon has some significance even though most people I've spoken to consider the Manriki as only a secondary weapon. But, it's a real good "secondary weapon."

I found a couple of websites with actual techniques listed (used a search engine).

No pain - No gain.

I would think... the "weight" (as in Ounces, not the actuall weights) is sort of irrelevent... We have been working at applying the Manriki techniques to a jacket, an extension cord, a wallet chain... all of which have different sizes and weight than a manriki. Of course, for swinging it and striking with it that way you might be right...

Thoughts?
 

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Technopunk said:
I would think... the "weight" (as in Ounces, not the actuall weights) is sort of irrelevent... We have been working at applying the Manriki techniques to a jacket, an extension cord, a wallet chain... all of which have different sizes and weight than a manriki. Of course, for swinging it and striking with it that way you might be right...

Thoughts?

The two sets I use both have somewhat heavy weights on each end and the chain itself is rather large (thick). Each of the tools/weapons you mention don't have weight on each end. kind of like using a Gi belt. You just can't swing them or throw either end to cause damage unless you have extraordinary body mechanix. You can trap with them but you may have to give up some defenses against blades. The weighted chains are an excellent defense against blades even though I doubt if you'll be attacked by someone with a sword in today's reality. Knives, on the other hand, would be a possible attack weapon which the manirki will defend against quite well. Other than the real thing, I would practice most with a real belt (the one on your pants not the gi). The belt buckle may be the next best thing if the belt, itself, has strength.
 

Cryozombie

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sojobow said:
The two sets I use both have somewhat heavy weights on each end and the chain itself is rather large (thick). Each of the tools/weapons you mention don't have weight on each end. kind of like using a Gi belt. You just can't swing them or throw either end to cause damage unless you have extraordinary body mechanix.

Right, thats what I was saying... you cant really swing them for striking effect, but other techniques work. I guess we put more focus on locking and trapping with the chain, then whipping or throwing the weights. At least where I am at...

As far as training with it for striking that way, I use a Kusarifundo and swing at trees. I practiced the motion with the knotted rope, and now use a metal one for the actual strike. If your Taijutsu is adequate, you wont hit yourself with the weight when it comes back off the tree... but thats why you (or I, I should say) start with the rope... :)
 

sojobow

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Technopunk said:
Right, thats what I was saying... you cant really swing them for striking effect, but other techniques work. I guess we put more focus on locking and trapping with the chain, then whipping or throwing the weights. At least where I am at...

Here are a couple of basics I found in Angelfire's website a few month back. Re-written to help clearity. What I really want to find is the U.S. Army's Manual on flex-weapons. Found one link but it didn't work. Main thing I try to remember is that the Manriki (Kusarifundo) is not a ninchuk type weapon thus all the unnecessary swinging will only let your opponent determind your actual range. I noticed this watching kids jump rope. Their body motion starts to sway in the timing/rythm of the rope. Once the kid believes his timing is the same as that of the rope, he moves in when the rope is either at its height or at its furtherest point away. Then, he jumps in. You might also want to practice your own body motion as if you were going to execute a jumprope exercise for timing. Conceal the Kusarifundo as much as possible before showing the weapon. I also try not to swing the weapon in an upward motion rather, I try, when necessary, to swing the chain in either a figure 8 motion and downward or in a counter-clockwise circle. The weapon only raises behind me.

Upon being a bit more proficient, I will then change the motion to a clockwise rotation. So far, it seems the downward motion opens a few more atemi points and will render escrima/stick and blade-type weapons somewhat useless all else being equal.
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1)Thrusts made with a chain.

The classic way to do this is known as Kusumi (Hazing) by the Masaki Ryu. I think Hatsumi has a photo of an underhand type thrust in one of his books. I saw the picture somewhere on the web.
The chain is scrunched up in the hand, one weight held by the last two fingers and the other held between the first and second fingers. The hand is punched straight at the foe and the top weight released as the arm reaches extension. The weight flies in a straight line and hits the foe.
This is often used as a surprise first attack, since the chain often can't be gathered up in the hand during combat. A further advantage is that the technique is usually executed from a distance at which the opponent considers himself out of range.
To help conceal the weapon the attack is usually made with the hand down by the side, or in front of the body with the other hand covering it. Charles Gruzanski maintains that this technique should be made as a straight punch, like an "O-zuki", and never with an underarm or overarm action like throwing a ball. Michael shared some interesting information about US agents being taught chain techniques and that they were taught a Kusumi like technique that used an overarm action like throwing a baseball.
It is worth noting that after the weight has hit, a well timed pull on the chain will snap the weight back towards the user where it can be caught. Try catching the weight in the throwing hand with the palm upward and you may be able to throw a second Kusuki strike. Try practicing volleys of Kusumi, moving around a target to work on you accuracy as well.


2) The Unweighted Scarf.
These techniques can be used with weapons that are not heavier towards one or both ends and also with those that are.

The "Down and Out" Defence.

This can be an outward or an inward defence, or even an upward or downward one. "Down and Out" is my aide memoire for which hand to perform the wrap with.
The scarf is held between the two hands and used to block or parry like one would use a Quarterstaff "Little John style" –being pulled taunt just before or on contact.
Now, use the outer hand to wrap the scarf over the top of the arm, because you want to pull the arm downward –hence "Down and Out".
he defender would wrap with his upper (right) hand, and it could be argued that that isn't what many people would term his outer hand. As long as you understand the principle and can remember the technique.
The scarf can therefore be used to pull the arm downwards either into a throw or a lock. A good tactic is to use this to apply a half-nelson which will also position you for a knee strike to the foe's coccyx (the tail bone).
 

Cryozombie

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Yeah, that all sounds pretty different than the way we are training it.
 

sojobow

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Technopunk said:
Yeah, that all sounds pretty different than the way we are training it.

So, tell us what's different. How are you being trained with the chain (handles on both ends)? Scarves, bandanas, battery jumper cables etc excluded. Lets talk about the 2 foot chain (fundo).

Describe to us a simple technique for beginners.
 

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