MA Contract's: Injury or Sudden Death

[TKDman]

Well guys what do you think about the contracts that you sign deeming the school unresponsible for Serious Injuries or Sudden Death on the dojo floor. Even if you sign the contract and die or recieve a serious wound I still believe the MA school owner is responsible for paying for the problem.

If someone died on the Dojo floor depending on the situation it would be hard to convice the court even with your contract that you are in no way responsible for the accident. Tell me what you think or submit a story about something like this that happened to you or someone you know.

Thanks.

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by TKDman
I still believe the MA school owner is responsible for paying for the problem.

I agree that if you had a good lawyer this probably wouldnt hold up in court. But, on the flipside, lets face it, martial arts are COMBAT (well, ok, some of em anyhow... ) oriented and with that a certain amount of injury, even serious injury (and by serious I am talking broken bones etc...) has the potential to occur. Our instrutors HOPEFULLY ( I know mine does) take all the steps they can to make training SAFE without deteriorating from the quality of the training, but there are always factors outside of his control, Like the Uke who tenses up for some reason bfore a throw that has been done to him 10,000 times before and he injures himself, or the new guy who is just fine under the instructors gaze but then takes a technique a little "too far" when his back is turned...

So to a very large extent, I would say we have to REALIZE this is a potentialy dangerous activity and we need to be prepared to accept what comes of that... if we are not we should probably switch from MA to table tennis or somthing.

Of course the flip side of that is if your instructor does nothing to control the environment you probably need to recognize and get out BEFORE you get hurt, so it never HAS to go to court.

 

[jdmills]

It all depends on what happened. By signing the contract you are acknowledging that you realize that there are serious risks involved and accidents happen. However, accidents happen far more frequently when someone is negligent and by signing the contract you are not allowing the instructor to be negligent. It would all come down to the facts of what happened and what the instructor did.

 

[kkbb]

I know the US is different but.... your instructor should have liability insurance ( I have $2,000,000 worth) even if you sign thier disclaimers. Unless the document you sign is very detailed.... I mean 30 to 40 pages long and specifies all possible injuries... then they run a great risk of being sued....
Most disclaimers do not cover to this detail and when pushed would not be worth the paper or the ink to print them....

I think there is a few lawyers here who frequent MT who can clerify this..

 

[jdmills]

Yes, I am one of them.

I'm admitted to practice in Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

 

[kkbb]

Am I right about the disclaimers?

When I applied for insurance, the first thing they wanted to see was my contract with all info regarding liability.

 

[jdmills]

Generally, your correct. The disclaimers are more a deterrent to litigation than they are useful if litigation occurs. It would be difficult, for example, for someone who gets a bloody nose to sue you but if their arm is broken, that's a different matter. Certain injuries (minor ones) are to be expected if you are studying martial arts but major injuries are not. Negligence is not waived and therefore if sued your waiver probably will not be of much help. However, a good contract with a very comprehensive waiver does prevent certain suits and will lessen your exposure in nearly all cases. In the US, you would want to carry a good insurance policy and also incorporate to protect your personal assets. I'd write an extremely comprehensive waiver in any event with a clause stating that if any provision is invalid the contract shall be read if that provision did not exist but the remainder of the contract shall be in full effect and enforceable.

 

[sweeper]

yeah, there are just some things that are un avoidable, for example, when I was practicing judo, one time I was ground fighting a more experienced opponant, it was practice and the way we did things was genneraly to split the less experienced with the more experienced, the more experienced would try newer things and the less experienced would excelerate faster from harder competition. Anyway my opponant got my arm and tried to swing his legs up for an armbar, I tried to duck under the leg and caught his heal to my temple. In retrospect I probably had a minor concusion because I was dizzy for a couple days, but that easily could have been a more serious concusion where I would have gone to the hospital, but when it comes down to it there isn't realy anything the instructor could have done to prevent that from happening.. simularly in JKD a couple of people have been knocked out by accident, that is to say they weren't going full force but just caught a blow wrong and went down.. Those could also result in concusion.. and than you coyuld run into all sorts of problems in a MMA situation.. Realy instructors should pay serious attention to what they make people sign, and students realy should understand that you can and in time probably will get hurt.

 

[jdmills]

When I was a yellow or orange belt I was sparring a kenpo green belt who had a brown belt in tkd. He caught me with my punch still extended with a spinning side kick right in the ribs. Cracked a couple ribs. It hurt for more than a month.

 

[MartialArtist]

Expect to get hurt.

The reason you get hit is so you won't get hit later.

I think the rules should apply the same as in the NFL. Recklessness, malpractice, etc. should be in the hands of the person responsible. Getting hurt as a result of good training is something you really can't avoid.

 

[Wmarden]

Funny story in the same vein. I got choked out with a full nelson during my second jujitsu class. And honestly it is what made me decide to stick with it even more.

 

[KenpoDragon]

Originally posted by Wmarden
Funny story in the same vein. I got choked out with a full nelson during my second jujitsu class. And honestly it is what made me decide to stick with it even more.

You said you got "choked" out with a full nelson??? How did that happen, a full nelson doesn't apply pressure to the windpipe, it applies pressure to the back of the neck. Please explain this "situation" in more detail, so I can understand this "choke" better.

:asian: KenpoDragon

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Wmarden
Funny story in the same vein. I got choked out with a full nelson during my second jujitsu class. And honestly it is what made me decide to stick with it even more.

like kenpodragon asked before, are you sure that was a full nelson?

 

[fringe_dweller]

Possible it was a strangle rather than a choke. That could make you pass out.

Respectfully,