Leave your kids at home....

[MBuzzy]

Ok, bit of a rant here....

I just went to a performance of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture (full piece), plus his March Miniture, Piano Concerto, and Serenade for Strings. 4 incredible pieces of music, VERY talented Symphony. Ticket prices reflected that of course.

I also spent the entire 2 hours with a kid kicking my seat, fidgeting (squeaking his seat), moving around, talking loudly, complaining about being too tired, too thirsty, too hungry, bored, etc etc etc. Of course, his parents did little to nothing, even after asked to please keep him under control and at least keep him from continually kicking my wife and my seats.

I fully understand and support the idea of bringing culture into small children's lives. I fully intend to educate my child in the arts, expose him to great classical music and composers, etc. But I also intend to KEEP HIM AT HOME, until he is old and mature enough to sit quietly through a 2 hour concert and not bother those around him.

Parents, please....either practice it and teach the kid to behave during expensive cultural events, or keep them at home. There will be time when they are older.

 

[girlbug2]

Yes, I've been there too so to speak.

It's so hard to know how your kids will react in a new situation OTOH. A two hour movie, no problem for my kids (ages 11 and 7). But who knows how they'll react to a two hour concert, until some day we try it and find out. If it turns out they can't handle it well, I'll take them to the lobby.

 

[celtic_crippler]

More so than age, I think it depends on the maturity of the kid(s). I've seen a 7 year old that sat attentively during a performance and observed older children, perhaps around 10-12, acting like they were in romper room.

Oh...and if I'm paying more than $50 for my meal...you kids probably don't belong in that restaraunt.

Exactly how did you "ask"? Perhaps you should work on your delivery. LOL :angel:

 

[elder999]

I also spent the entire 2 hours with a kid kicking my seat, fidgeting (squeaking his seat), moving around, talking loudly, complaining about being too tired, too thirsty, too hungry, bored, etc etc etc. Of course, his parents did little to nothing, even after asked to please keep him under control and at least keep him from continually kicking my wife and my seats.

Been there. Never understood it, myself.

Parents, please....either practice it and teach the kid to behave during expensive cultural events, or keep them at home. There will be time when they are older.

That there's the key: my parents taught me how to behave, and to appreciate such things, and I taught my kids. You don't say how old the kid was, but if he was old enough to kick your seats, he was probablty old enough to be there. Listening to the music and teaching its appreciation at home is where it begins-taking them to smaller, more controlled venues is the next step, letting them know the expecations around behavior.

Fer chrissakes, I saw The Magic Flute for the first time when I was 5-I was spellbound-didn't say a damn thing or move a muscle.

 

[Ken Morgan]

[/size]

That there's the key: my parents taught me how to behave, and to appreciate such things, and I taught my kids.

Moi aussi

Kids will be kids. Doesn’t matter if it’s in a good restaurant, a movie theatre, a McDonalds, or where have you. It is the parent’s responsibility to curtail the Childs inappropriate behaviour. If your child is disturbing others, it is you responsibility to get them to stop, if they will not stop, it is your responsibility to remove them from the situation.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Well that's the problem. You see here in America all effective means of discipline have been made illegal, and parents , especially this newest apology for a generation, think they have the right to bring their children everywhere at all hours and than no one has a right to complain.

Procreation should be banned, it'll make the coming end-of-the-world noise so much more seamless.

 

[MBuzzy]

Yes, I've been there too so to speak.

It's so hard to know how your kids will react in a new situation OTOH. A two hour movie, no problem for my kids (ages 11 and 7). But who knows how they'll react to a two hour concert, until some day we try it and find out. If it turns out they can't handle it well, I'll take them to the lobby.

Exactly as a responsible parent should!

 

[MBuzzy]

Oh...and if I'm paying more than $50 for my meal...you kids probably don't belong in that restaraunt.

Exactly how did you "ask"? Perhaps you should work on your delivery. LOL :angel:

True - probably less swearing and screaming would be better next time (on my part). I asked the father while the mother and kids were gone if he could please try to keep his child from kicking mine and my wife's chair. Basically as respectfully as possible, so as not to come off as telling him how to raise his kid......since I can probably be thrown in jail for that too.

I would agree, I think that a matinee is ok for kids....but a formal 8pm showing of classical music for over $50/ticket isn't really the right place for a small child.

 

[shesulsa]

I don't think all effective means of parenting have been made illegal. Logical and realistic consequences for their actions (within reason, of course), a stern voice and the natural propensity of intimidation through mystery can work quite well, but only if and when they are *employed.*

Kids will be kids, and it IS up to parents to BE PARENTS. Prepare the child in advance, attend a matinee if/when possible, and be prepared to leave early or take them to the bathroom when they act up.

Now I see many parents shoving a Nintendo DS into their kids' laps to keep them quiet and occupied - or a cell phone. :shrug: I'm sorry, but ... **** that. You aren't teaching your child a goddamn thing by doing that, you're only pacifying them and bribing their silence - which, btw, they are completely unconscious of giving you because it wasn't willingly given, rather bought and paid for.

You don't teach courtesy by pacifying them. You teach them courtesy through exposure, failure plus consequence and success plus intrinsic award.

 

[elder999]

I would agree, I think that a matinee is ok for kids....but a formal 8pm showing of classical music for over $50/ticket isn't really the right place for a small child.

I'd say it depends on the child, and it depends upon how small-that little fellow who taught himself to play the piano would probably have done really well at 3, depending upon how well his parents had socialized him.....at least, he wouldn't have been bored, of all things..

 

[shesulsa]

The crux for parents here is that it's difficult to teach a child without some level of exposure, especially as an audience member - but that doesn't mean if they are generally unruly children they should be brought at all, for heaven's sake.

MBuzzy, it's a shame your night at the orchestra was ruined and a bigger shame the parents did nothing to quell the behavior of their children.

 

[Tames D]

After your request to the father was ignored, your next complaint should have been to the management. Let them be the heavy,or return your money. And if they don't take care of it to your satisfaction, then I guess all bets are off

.

 

[elder999]

After your request to the father was ignored, your next complaint should have been to the management. Let them be the heavy,or return your money. And if they don't take care of it, then I guess all bets are off

.

Yes, if it's really that bad, it's why the ushers are there....

 

[MBuzzy]

After your request to the father was ignored, your next complaint should have been to the management. Let them be the heavy,or return your money. And if they don't take care of it to your satisfaction, then I guess all bets are off

.

It was/is. Of course, the ushers aren't authorized to do anything and the "customer serve" desk/ticket office will refer the issue to management and someone will be in communication with me.....

In other words, they have their money. From me and from the people behind me. I am sure that in their opinion, their responsibility to me is over, because that is what customer service has come to. We'll see how they respond tomorrow morning when the normal office opens again.

 

[Sukerkin]

A very interesting thread, Buzzy.

I am heartened by the timbre of the replies within it too. It would seem that at least the section of the community that practise martial arts understand the necessity of discipline and consideration {odd that }.

Strangely it reminded me of the time I was flying from Calgary to Chicago and had some obnoxious brat kicking the back of my seat interminably. I got so angry that I honestly don't remember what I said and only recall that I got out of my seat and stood next to the goblins ... sorry, little angel's ... father's seat and exchanged a few words {blush}. The aircraft staff didn't say anything too me so I can't have been too out of line - maybe the English accent scored me a few points?

The moral is, if noone says anything then bad behaviour becomes normal behaviour to the detriment of the quality of life for everyone.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Duct tape is your friend.

 

[Flea]

Bill, I've always liked the way you think. :boing2:

I've ushered in may theaters over the years, and the overwhelming majority of situations I encountered involved adults behaving like that. Most theaters use volunteers for ushers (you've probably noticed that most ushers in fine arts houses are retirees?) As such it's against theater policy for ushers to intervene in these cases as a matter of our own safety.

Instead, we're supposed to alert the floor manager, who may or may not alert security. Security, of course, is already overwhelmed with Keeping The Homeland Safe For Democracy and looking for hidden bombs and such (sadly, I'm not kidding.) They're usually too busy making the sure the 3rd ballerina stage left doesn't whip a Kalashnikov out of her tutu and commence to spraying the audience.

Moral of the story? Next time, plant a Kalashnikov on the kid. Then they'll kick him out. Bonus points for using lots of duct tape in the process. The more the better.

 

[Carol]

Give the kid a lavicious stare and ask him if he wants to come visit a new church that will be good for his young soul. Betcha dollars to donuts the parents get that kid shut up in a moment... :lol2:

 

[elder999]

Oh...and if I'm paying more than $50 for my meal...you kids probably don't belong in that restaraunt.

Which brings up another thing-and an interesting memory:

When I wa a wee-lad, and was well, I was in Cub Scouts, and Boy Scouts, and Little League. It's Little League I'm remembering, I think-though many of the faces are the same, so I can't be sure. Anyway, I sucked at baseball-I sucked at most sports at that age-but I was on a championship winning team. At the end of the season, trophies would be dispensed at a dinner for all participants-said dinner was held (for the occasion I'm remembering) at the Monteverde Restaurant, which, as you can see, is a fairly posh place.....

All such occasions-in my life, anyway-were typically preceded by a benediction from my dad:Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Little League, etc. A hazard, back then, of wearing a clerical collar-though these days, it's likely there'd be lawsuits involved. Interestingly, Dad had a veritable collection of non-denominational prayers for such occasions-omitting any mention of "Jesus," "Christ," and even, on occasion, "God." While I loved my dad, I usually thought of him as stern, and unflexible-what son doesn't think as much of a father who is doing his job? It's only in retrospect that I see what a kind, considerate and flexible man he really was.....

....anyway-I was struck by the behavior of many of the other boys. No sooner had rolls arrived on the table then many of them wound up in water glasses, or tossed across the room. Such behavior went on, and on, and on-and the one thing I could clearly see-having gone out for dinner with my parents since I was a small child and we lived in the city-is that these kids' parents clearly did not take them out, nor teach them proper manners, or what they were for. I was always taught that manners-including table manners-were about making everyone comfortable-and seeing those boys' behavior is what brought that idea home for me....I was probably about 8 years old....

I'd say that the only kids that don't belong in restaurants-regardless of what the meal costs-are the ones that haven't been taught the proper expectations for behavior, but what do I know?

 

[celtic_crippler]

Which brings up another thing-and an interesting memory:

When I wa a wee-lad, and was well, I was in Cub Scouts, and Boy Scouts, and Little League. It's Little League I'm remembering, I think-though many of the faces are the same, so I can't be sure. Anyway, I sucked at baseball-I sucked at most sports at that age-but I was on a championship winning team. At the end of the season, trophies would be dispensed at a dinner for all participants-said dinner was held (for the occasion I'm remembering) at the Monteverde Restaurant, which, as you can see, is a fairly posh place.....

All such occasions-in my life, anyway-were typically preceded by a benediction from my dad:Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Little League, etc. A hazard, back then, of wearing a clerical collar-though these days, it's likely there'd be lawsuits involved. Interestingly, Dad had a veritable collection of non-denominational prayers for such occasions-omitting any mention of "Jesus," "Christ," and even, on occasion, "God." While I loved my dad, I usually thought of him as stern, and unflexible-what son doesn't think as much of a father who is doing his job? It's only in retrospect that I see what a kind, considerate and flexible man he really was.....

....anyway-I was struck by the behavior of many of the other boys. No sooner had rolls arrived on the table then many of them wound up in water glasses, or tossed across the room. Such behavior went on, and on, and on-and the one thing I could clearly see-having gone out for dinner with my parents since I was a small child and we lived in the city-is that these kids' parents clearly did not take them out, nor teach them proper manners, or what they were for. I was always taught that manners-including table manners-were about making everyone comfortable-and seeing those boys' behavior is what brought that idea home for me....I was probably about 8 years old....

I'd say that the only kids that don't belong in restaurants-regardless of what the meal costs-are the ones that haven't been taught the proper expectations for behavior, but what do I know?

Earlier I stated it was more about maturity than chronological years on the planet...lol... and of course, that's influenced by the parents.

That's also why I never blame the kid...he/she's just being a kid. It's the parents that I address in these rare situations.

I remember being a kid too...and all my mom had to do was give me a certain look to get me to stop in my tracks and realize my behavior was not appropriate for the situation. Even as a grown man that "look" can still freeze me in my tracks! LOL