Kukkiwon 10th Dans...who are they?

[IcemanSK]

Before the Kukkiwon re-vamped their site, they listed how many people were given each dan rank through out the world. They broke it down by country & then the total (eg. 10, 654 3rd dan in USA 21,876 Worldwide).

They had a listing for 10 th Dans given. That number was 52 or 53. I can only think of 3 people who I'm aware of that have received them (& one I'm not sure of) GM Park, Hae Man, GM Uhm, Woon Kyu (KKW president) are two. I believe GM Jhoon Rhee to be another, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know who any of the others are? It would be an interesting piece of trivia.

 

[terryl965]

Tom I know one thing for sure it is not me.

 

[IcemanSK]

Tom I know one thing for sure it is not me.

Yeah, I don't have the "Golden ticket" either.......yet:mst:

 

[exile]

What I wonder is, who actually confers tenth dan rank on you... is there some kind of council of 10th dans that does this? Because otherwise you would have 9th dans at most conferring 10th dan status, which doesn't really seem cricket.

I had had the impression that 10th was an honorary posthumous thing... guess I that way wrong!

 

[allpet]

Hong, Chong Soo. Former Moo Duk Kwan grandmaster. Died about 7 years ago.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Yeah, I don't have the "Golden ticket" either.......yet:mst:

Don't be in a hurry...I hear they are only awarded posthumously

 

[allpet]

No. Hong, Chong Soo got it while he was alive.

 

[TKDmel]

I had had the impression that 10th was an honorary posthumous thing... guess I that way wrong!

I've been to the Kukkiwon website, and according to it, there is only one way to achieve 10th dan...posthumously.

 

[IcemanSK]

I thought that they were all awarded posthumously as well, until I met GM Park, Hae Man. I would guess that most often they are awarded after death.

As to who awards them, it is the Kukkiwon itself. There is no test for it. It has to do with service in the advancement of Taekwondo. There are 2 ways to receive a 9th Dan: A) By award of the Kukkiwon B) By test a pannel of 3 judges of high rank at the Kukkiwon.

 

[IcemanSK]

Hong, Chong Soo. Former Moo Duk Kwan grandmaster. Died about 7 years ago.

Well, that's 3 that we can say for sure.

Was he your instructor, Allpet?

 

[exile]

I thought that they were all awarded posthumously as well, until I met GM Park, Hae Man. I would guess that most often they are awarded after death.

As to who awards them, it is the Kukkiwon itself. There is no test for it. It has to do with service in the advancement of Taekwondo. There are 2 ways to receive a 9th Dan: A) By award of the Kukkiwon B) By test a pannel of 3 judges of high rank at the Kukkiwon.

But what I wonder is, who at the KKW is `authorized' to elevate someone to that rank... is there a special tribunal, as it were, which itself kind of has the collective status of 10th dan?

TKDmel's information is also interesting... there seems some kind of information disconnection going on here.

 

[Brad Dunne]

From my understanding, the two ways are 1) Posthumously and 2) Head or Grandmaster of a Kwan. There is a council of sorts and thats the head of the Kwans, who are supposedly ranked at 10th Dan. They will confer a 10th Dan ranking in conjunction with Kukkiwon approval. From my understanding, this action is rare, especially for someone who does not assume the head of a Kwan and is still alive.

 

[exile]

From my understanding, the two ways are 1) Posthumously and 2) Head or Grandmaster of a Kwan. There is a council of sorts and thats the head of the Kwans, who are supposedly ranked at 10th Dan. They will confer a 10th Dan ranking in conjunction with Kukkiwon approval. From my understanding, this action is rare, especially for someone who does not assume the head of a Kwan and is still alive.

Brad, that kind of has the ring of truth... so then my question is, how do we get fifty plus 10th dans out of that?

 

[allpet]

Well, that's 3 that we can say for sure.

Was he your instructor, Allpet?

I heard that the five kwan jangs from the five original kwans got 10. dan. Three of them posthumously.

He was my instructors instructor.

 

[Brad Dunne]

Brad, that kind of has the ring of truth... so then my question is, how do we get fifty plus 10th dans out of that?

My guess would be "ego's gone wind"........ Make up your own kwan = 10th Dan status,...........Start your own TKD organization = 10th Dan status..........Just make up your own conglomeration of stuff, call it TKD and woop de do, another 10th Dan is born. In fact, while their at it, mite as well throw in 5 or 6 other styles and give themselves some super high rank in them also. Ahhhhhhhhhhh! pride. Sadly, most if not all of these folks that do this, really think that everybody is honestly impressed and believes that they were actually able to accomplish all that in less than one lifetime. Such is the tarnishment of rank in general, for it deminishes the value for those that do it right.

 

[exile]

Such is the tarnishment of rank in general, for it deminishes the value for those that do it right.

You got that right... what's so strange is, at one time, in a lot of cases, there really wasn't much of a difference in `style', or in the systematic technical content between two kwans, but just more in the nature of different approaches to training, or the preference of the kwan founder for certain exercises or ways of doing things---someone prefers a double knifehand lower block to a double closed fist lower block, or a side kick in place of a turning kick, and bingo, ten years later it's an article of hotly contested faith fueling the rivalry among a bunch of MA schools.

Kacey and a couple of other people had some nice examples on a recent thread of the extremely tenuous basis for certain `hallmark' characteristics of ITF TKD distinguishing it from WTF/KKW TKD. So many cases of distinctions without real differences... and as you say, probably a lot of the intensity comes from egos and vanity.

 

[IcemanSK]

Brad, that kind of has the ring of truth... so then my question is, how do we get fifty plus 10th dans out of that?

My guess would be "ego's gone wind"........ Make up your own kwan = 10th Dan status,...........Start your own TKD organization = 10th Dan status..........Just make up your own conglomeration of stuff, call it TKD and woop de do, another 10th Dan is born. In fact, while their at it, mite as well throw in 5 or 6 other styles and give themselves some super high rank in them also. Ahhhhhhhhhhh! pride. Sadly, most if not all of these folks that do this, really think that everybody is honestly impressed and believes that they were actually able to accomplish all that in less than one lifetime. Such is the tarnishment of rank in general, for it deminishes the value for those that do it right.

But Brad, the "roll your own kwan" 10th dans would only explain the fakes. It wouldn't explain the 50-some-odd KKW recognized folks.

It still is interesting that it's hard to come up with who's on that list of 53.

 

[TraditionalTKD]

I would take the whole 10th Dan thing with a grain of salt, because like anything else in martial arts it gets overblown and overhyped-people claiming 10th Dan to suit their ego.
I don't believe for a minute there are 52 or 53 10th Dans out there. There are, I'm sure, far fewer. And awarded posthumously to those who have greatly contributed to the propagation and development of Kukkiwon TKD. The official Kukkiwon Dan system only goes up to 9th Dan, for those who have contributed to the worldwide development of Tae Kwon Do. By definition, not many of them will exist. Although the WTF suffers from rank inflation like any other organization. So you get glorified ex-jocks and self promoting hacks claiming 9th and 10th Dan to further their egos. What is claimed and what is real are usually very different.

 

[andyjeffries]

The official Kukkiwon Dan system only goes up to 9th Dan

Wrong - Article 8 of the promotion test regulations on the Kukkiwon web site (and printed on page 762 of the Kukkiwon Textbook) give the age limit for 10th Dan - http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination08.jsp?div=01


And article 11 states that the poomsae to be tested for 10th Dan is "by decision of the Promotion test Commission" (page 764 of the Kukkiwon Textbook and further down the link provided above)

10th Dan is a bonafide rank provided it's certified by the Kukkiwon.

 

[IcemanSK]

Wrong - Article 8 of the promotion test regulations on the Kukkiwon web site (and printed on page 762 of the Kukkiwon Textbook) give the age limit for 10th Dan - http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination08.jsp?div=01


And article 11 states that the poomsae to be tested for 10th Dan is "by decision of the Promotion test Commission" (page 764 of the Kukkiwon Textbook and further down the link provided above)

10th Dan is a bonafide rank provided it's certified by the Kukkiwon.

Thanks for the info Andy! I figured if the KKW stated that there were 50-some 10th Dans, they weren't talking about folks that had given themselves the title. Anyone find out more about who these folks might be?