Kickboxing

[Xue Sheng]

What is it to you?

Currently I am a bit confused as to what is actually suppose to be :idunno:


I know Sanshou can be defined as Chinese kick boxing but I am wondering what most people think it is. I have been killing time by looking around at various MA schools in my area and there seems to be an awful lot that advertise kickboxing and I doubt much of it is like Sanshou, particularly the one with the word Cardio in front of the kickboxing label and one website I looked at that was claiming it had kickboxing was without a doubt a Karate school. A couple are Muay Thai and that I suppose could also be called kickboxing. Are there styles of kickboxing or is it a general category

So what is?

Or better yet, what it is suppose to be?

 

[ATC]

Simple, Boxing with kicking allowed. KickBoxing. Nothing to deep. It is what it says.

 

[pmosiun1]

Sanshou does not seem so popular. There used to be a school around my area but now it no longer exist but there are now three muay thai school.

Yup, kickboxing means boxing with kicks, however, the term pretty much does not mean a lot anymore, because anyone can say they do kickboxing, but it could just be cardio, or tae kwon do, karate etc

 

[ap Oweyn]

"Kickboxing" as it's typically used could refer to virtually anything. But typically, regardless of the school's style, it's going to involve work on the typical boxing equipment. Heavy bag, focus mitts, etc. It's a bit of a sales pitch in many cases. But there are definitely styles that are more generally associated with that word.

Interestingly, given your reaction, I'd say that muay thai would be the number 1 association with the word kickboxing. I'd also put "American kickboxing," derived from "full contact karate," on that list. French savate. Filipino yaw yan. Burmese lethwae. Etc.

I'd probably put sanshou and sanda on there as well. Though things like that and Japanese pancrase could also be considered MMA, I suppose, given the emphasis on grappling (even though sanshou doesn't have submissions).

It's a fuzzy term. But I certainly wouldn't walk into a kickboxing class expecting to find sanshou.

 

[IcemanSK]

Yeah, it's a fuzzy term now. In the early 90's, I trained in Full-contact rules kickboxing (aka PKA full-contact karate). We often called it "fighting full contact" back then. With the advent of cardio kickboxing, Tae Bo, & the Muay Thai wave that swept the US (not to mention SanShou), it became harder to define. It's certainly not one thing anymore.

At least Muay Thai, & San Shou have other names to go by besides kickboxing. They can try to distinguish themselves from cardio kickboxing easier.

 

[Xinglu]

散手 Sanshou and 散打 Sanda are "free fighting" styles consisting of ti (kicks), da (punches), shuai (Shuai Jiao), and na (qinna). Sanda as a sport has a very great emphasis on throws.

Kickboxing as it is widely accepted is generally kicks and punches. If you are looking for Sanda/Sanshou, you won't find it in kickboxing.

 

[searcher]

Xue-I am glad you posted this topic for discussion. I am, by trade, a personal trainer and karate insructor. I also teach a kickboxing class at my gym, this is where the story really begins. I have classes 4 days per week and the workout consists of shadowboxing, bag work, and physical conditioning. There happens to be other trainers at my gym that teach kickboxing classes and some 1 on 1, but they are nothing like what I teach. Not a single one of the others have any MA training or ring experience. One of them runs a morning kickboxing class that is very Tae-boish in nature. I have watched the other trainers run people through kickboxing workouts and they very much resemble a sad version of what even Billy B. teaches. I run my training just the same as how I was trained in boxing and kickboxing.

So, which is kickboxing and which is not? You would have to tell me. I let people know before they come to me, that what I am running is not dance-like and it is not choreographed to any music. Nor will it make them into the next world kickboxing champion, but it is closer to what you will get at a kickboxing gym then anything else at our gym.

As for the karate school, not truly being a kickboxing school. All of my adults train kickboxing and I have had several compete in kickboxing events. American Kickboxing was started by karate and TKD guys. And it was just a mix of boxing techniques and karate/TKD kicks. So, many schools use kickboxing type sparring as a way to better prepare themselves for competition and for the crazy life outside the school.

 

[jks9199]

Xue-I am glad you posted this topic for discussion. I am, by trade, a personal trainer and karate insructor. I also teach a kickboxing class at my gym, this is where the story really begins. I have classes 4 days per week and the workout consists of shadowboxing, bag work, and physical conditioning. There happens to be other trainers at my gym that teach kickboxing classes and some 1 on 1, but they are nothing like what I teach. Not a single one of the others have any MA training or ring experience. One of them runs a morning kickboxing class that is very Tae-boish in nature. I have watched the other trainers run people through kickboxing workouts and they very much resemble a sad version of what even Billy B. teaches. I run my training just the same as how I was trained in boxing and kickboxing.

So, which is kickboxing and which is not? You would have to tell me. I let people know before they come to me, that what I am running is not dance-like and it is not choreographed to any music. Nor will it make them into the next world kickboxing champion, but it is closer to what you will get at a kickboxing gym then anything else at our gym.

As for the karate school, not truly being a kickboxing school. All of my adults train kickboxing and I have had several compete in kickboxing events. American Kickboxing was started by karate and TKD guys. And it was just a mix of boxing techniques and karate/TKD kicks. So, many schools use kickboxing type sparring as a way to better prepare themselves for competition and for the crazy life outside the school.

You're describing two separate things: kickboxing, a competitive combat sport where the competitors may use a limited selection of karate-style strikes, boxing punches, and kicks, under a variety of rule sets, and kickboxing (sometimes combat) aerobics, a fitness routine using some of the same strikes and kicks for fitness; it may or may not include any bag, pad, or other contact work, and often loosely resembles shadowboxing with interruptions for calisthenics. Examples of the former are easy to see, and include muay thai, K1, and more. Examples of the latter include the kenpo portion of P90, TaeBo, and lots of other similar programs. Lots of gyms offer variants of the latter, sometimes by people who know what they're doing as aerobic instructors, sometimes by people who know what they're doing as fighters -- but seldom by someone who knows what they're doing on both sides. I'm surprised that more people aren't hurt in those classes, either by doing something dangerous in the class, or when they think that the class gave them fighting skills...

 

[ap Oweyn]

I was reading a book on sports science as related to martial arts. And the author describes a training pyramid similar to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I thought it was actually really useful in evaluating kickboxing, or any other martial arts program.

Psychological preparation
Tactical preparation
Technical preparation
Physical preparation


So you start with physical preparation. A kickboxing aerobics program is going to prepare you cardiovascularly, at least. Though it may not prepare you in all the areas specific to actually applying kickboxing.

Next is technical preparation. You'd be lucky to have a kickboxing aerobics teacher who gives you this. Because, to convey proper technique, you have to slow the class down and concentrate on specifics. That doesn't happen in the aerobics classes I've seen. Which is why you see round kicks with no hip turnover, etc. If they're not learning the technical aspects elsewhere, they're out of luck.

Tactical preparation comes when technique is internalized and ways to apply them become paramount. Not going to get that in an aerobics class. May not even get that in a lot of straight martial arts classes. But any good program is going to prepare you tactically. Whether it's for the ring or whatever your venue happens to be.

Psychological preparation comes last. You can probably work out, generally, what that entails.

I thought it was a helpful little framework for making sense of things.


Stuart

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have seen a bunch of “Kickboxing” establishments popup and I am guessing the majority are cardio kickboxing and few are karate and one is associated with a Gym that is actually training boxers to fight in the ring so it may… or may not… be for fighting.

It just seems like an incredibly generic term based on what I have been seeing in my area and on the web and I was wondering what it is suppose to be.

Thanks for all the information :asian:

 

[ap Oweyn]

I have seen a bunch of “Kickboxing” establishments popup and I am guessing the majority are cardio kickboxing and few are karate and one is associated with a Gym that is actually training boxers to fight in the ring so it may… or may not… be for fighting.

It just seems like an incredibly generic term based on what I have been seeing in my area and on the web and I was wondering what it is suppose to be.

Thanks for all the information :asian:

Meh. Every age seems to have its generic martial arts term. In the 80s, it was "ninja." Prior to that, everything was "karate." (My first school was a taekwondo dojang that, to this day, is called "Kim's Karate.") Now it's kickboxing.

Wouldn't worry about it. Ignore the terminology and concentrate on the content.


Stuart