Jail politicians who ignore climate science: Suzuki
- Thread starter Big Don
- Start date
This is how I came to distrust the global warming juggernaut. I feel that it's not about the science anymore. It's about politics. Millions are being pumped into this research. Heck, if you are scientist, its one of the few areas where a person can even make a living nowadays (unless one is willing to look for petroleum).
The evidence says global warming is real. The evidence tells us that homo sapians may play a part.
That's it.
The evidence does not say...
1. That we need a world organization to regulate carbon emissions.
2. That we need a carbon tax in order to fix the problem.
3. That we are all going to die unless we do something now.
My spidey sense tells me that something foul has come to roost in a topic that at one time was purely academic. Global warming has become another form of terrorism. Another way to scare people so that we behave like we ought to. Another way to sell another peice of our lives to the people who own the governments of this world.
The evidence says global warming is real. The evidence tells us that homo sapians may play a part.
That's it.
The evidence does not say...
1. That we need a world organization to regulate carbon emissions.
2. That we need a carbon tax in order to fix the problem.
3. That we are all going to die unless we do something now.
My spidey sense tells me that something foul has come to roost in a topic that at one time was purely academic. Global warming has become another form of terrorism. Another way to scare people so that we behave like we ought to. Another way to sell another peice of our lives to the people who own the governments of this world.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
For crying out loud Don not again :disgust:
Well we sure know it is not our fault it’s the other guys problem
More finger pointing and the old blame game ahead, here we go again.
:hb:
Of course trying to have a discussion as to the reality of it without political crap and grandstanding is out of the question.
Is it getting warmer? Yes
Why? multiple possibilities so why not try and find out what is really going on and see if we can do something about it or not.
If we can then do something.
If we can't move to higher ground cause lowlands will be getting pretty wet.
Well we sure know it is not our fault it’s the other guys problem
More finger pointing and the old blame game ahead, here we go again.
:hb:
Of course trying to have a discussion as to the reality of it without political crap and grandstanding is out of the question.
Is it getting warmer? Yes
Why? multiple possibilities so why not try and find out what is really going on and see if we can do something about it or not.
If we can then do something.
If we can't move to higher ground cause lowlands will be getting pretty wet.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
True but whether or not we play a part or not we are certainly the only creatures on the planet that can do something about it assuming something can be done
Not sure about the hint a the government conspiracy type thing but I agree that something fowl has come to roost in a topic that should be discussed on a much more academic/scientific level.
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I was cold, so I turned up the world. Deal.
Ok, pet peeve.
Global Warming is happening, that is established. The science suggests that we do have something to do with it, that is fiarly established. The future effects are mostly guesses, alarmists on one side, and deniers that it will do anything on the other.
But warming is not the only issue. It is one potentially very bad result of pollution.
Now the article never even mentions "Global warming", it says "Climate change" which is a much wider range of problems, Global Warming being only one.
But that is still only part of the problem. Thousands of people die everyday because of contaminated drinking water due to pollution. Thousands get sick because of smaug and air pollution. Species are being driven to extinction because their environments are being destroyed.
Enviromental issues should be a concern, but politicians, activists and media need to stop polarizing it into a alarmist vs denialist issue, and only focusing on the Global warming piece of it.
Global Warming is happening, that is established. The science suggests that we do have something to do with it, that is fiarly established. The future effects are mostly guesses, alarmists on one side, and deniers that it will do anything on the other.
But warming is not the only issue. It is one potentially very bad result of pollution.
Now the article never even mentions "Global warming", it says "Climate change" which is a much wider range of problems, Global Warming being only one.
But that is still only part of the problem. Thousands of people die everyday because of contaminated drinking water due to pollution. Thousands get sick because of smaug and air pollution. Species are being driven to extinction because their environments are being destroyed.
Enviromental issues should be a concern, but politicians, activists and media need to stop polarizing it into a alarmist vs denialist issue, and only focusing on the Global warming piece of it.
LuzRD
Black Belt
...the best response to a global warming discussion yet!!
Assuming that we are the cause of global warming...which some evidence does suggest. What if the cure is worse then the disease? For example, one of the major problems that anyone has in regards to coming up with solutions is that there are just too many people on the planet. What would we have to do in order to discourage people on a world wide scale to not have as many children?
All I'm saying is that we need to be very careful when people start shouting out solutions that include taxing people for using carbon and creating world organizations to monitor and regulate carbon by trumping a nation's sovereignty.
In the former case, I cannot think of a more regressive tax. This would hit the poorest people the hardest and unfairly punish people because they cannot afford alternatives. In the latter's case, I think the problems with such an organization are obvious. It's world government.
Andrew has a good point. There are a lot of other issues with the ways that humans use the environment. Global Warming has become such a boogy man that we stop thinking about those.
My thought is this, if our society made real efforts to crank up alternative energy sources, reduced consumption, and reuse the refuse, we would not only make a big dent in our collective carbon footprint, but we would also deal with a whole slew of other problems that really are more immediate then global warming.
None of our current candidates in the US will even touch this though. I'm really disappointed in our leaders.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
To be honest I do not even consider that an option that has any chance of happening
As to cure worse than the disease, I am not sure if we can reverse the current warming trend whether or not we are responsible. And if we can then how far will it go? If I remember correctly my climatology we should be on a cooling trend heading towards an ice age. But then warming does mean more water in the atmosphere which eventually can cause cooling (reflecting the suns radiation). So basically I guess I am saying it is a whole lot more complicated that it looks or sounds.
agreed
What you have to do to encourage people not to have as many children is to ensure the survival of the ones they do have. It was common in Victorian times in Europe and American for families to be large, 10 children and upwards was normal but with health standards being low and the child death rates being high, parents would continue to have children because the more they had the more chance they had of bringing money into the house and of being looked after in their old age.
These days in Europe and America we don't need to send our children out to work for the family to survive nor do we have the appalling child death rate now so the birth rate has fallen naturally. However many countries do, so until we can guarentee the survival of children and make it so families can support themselves without having to have a lot of children to go out working the problem will continue.
These days in Europe and America we don't need to send our children out to work for the family to survive nor do we have the appalling child death rate now so the birth rate has fallen naturally. However many countries do, so until we can guarentee the survival of children and make it so families can support themselves without having to have a lot of children to go out working the problem will continue.
Words the Bush administration operated on for years.
Can we extend this call to jail those who ignore the science behind evolution?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Sure, but you know after that there will be counter charges followed by more counter charges... etcetera etcetera etcetera and before you know it were all in jail
"When they came for the scientists, I said nothing..."
It sounds perfectly reasonable to me. This is one of the few issues that really has the potential to end civilization as we know. Any ruler who ignores the science is willfully ignoring just about the greatest danger there is to his or her country. A politician who ignores enemy armies crossing the border deserves jail at best. One who ignores drought, starvation, floods, fires and epidemics deserves no better. As for "throw people in jail who don't believe what I do", well Don, that has been your doctrine all along. You've come out in favor of making anything and everything illegal if it doesn't conform to your religion's perversions of what my city-breaking illiterate sheep-shagging ancestors thought about what people should do with their naughty bits. Real physical threats to actual living breathing peoples' lives are much more important than primitive tribal sexual taboos. At this point there is no doubt about the general shape of climate change. None. Not a bit. Nada. We have the science. It's rigorous. It's robust. It is based on many different sources of data that support each other. The only real questions now are "how fa", "how fas","at what cost" and "is there anything we can do". Sticking one's fingers in one's ears and shouting "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" - which is about the kindest spin you can put on the so-called climate skeptics - is bald faced lies at this point. And it's lies whose cost in human death and misery is nearly incalculable.
Tellner, tried to give your rep for your post but have to spread it around a bit first it says.
More and more I am beginning to think that Don is winding us up deliberately with his reactionary and sometimes inflammatory posts.
We need to look at climate change, it's certainly happening and we need to know whether or how much we are responsible for this happening. We need to look at how much we are screwing this planet, at the moment our only home and what we can do to if not put things right at least repair what we can. It's no good saying 'well it's not in my backyard and it's not my fault' because soon enough it will be in your backyard and how do you know it's not your fault?
More and more I am beginning to think that Don is winding us up deliberately with his reactionary and sometimes inflammatory posts.
We need to look at climate change, it's certainly happening and we need to know whether or how much we are responsible for this happening. We need to look at how much we are screwing this planet, at the moment our only home and what we can do to if not put things right at least repair what we can. It's no good saying 'well it's not in my backyard and it's not my fault' because soon enough it will be in your backyard and how do you know it's not your fault?
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