I've hit a wall and I need advice.

[TheDonster]

Okey dokey, well my situation is I originally started training in February 2003, trained for that whole year and thanks to circumstances which I regret, I did not continue training in 2004. I achieved the rank of 8th kyu after about 3 months I think.

So I started again right at the end of 2005, and all the way through 2006. I have been determined all year to get right back into it and finally progress and move right on, however I feel as though I am not nearly as good at the end of this year as I was at the end of 2003.

This is incredibly frustrating as while I have definitely improved as far as re-learning everything (and learning a couple of new things) is concerned, a lot of things still feel unnatural to me and some things I just can't 'get'.

For example, at our last night of training for this year last night, we were working primarily with the hanbo. The last technique we worked through was stepping forwards + left 45 degrees and striking to the hip joint with the end of the hanbo, then using the hanbo and your opponent's arm to push them away.

Now, I KNOW that you're supposed to use your legs and your body to do everything. I know this, and it is something that I am very conscious of. The problem is, is with a lot of things I just can't seem to actually do it.

I think this has been my biggest problem with my training this year. I have been (in the last few weeks) working hard on my kihon happo in my own time to try and 'restore' the full use of my body.

I am also planning on working on a single-handed striking technique we were using last night (right hand at end of hanbo to your right side, spinning your wrist to strike. I don't know the Japanese name) except working on it with the Bo per the advice of one of our Senseis. I felt a difference in using the hanbo with this technique after a few minutes polishing it with the bo, but still did not feel it was quite right.

Can anyone give me any more advice?


Also, my Sensei (the big man who actually runs the whole lot of local dojos) said that I'm trying too hard. Anyone able to sort of elaborate on this for me? I'm a bit slow at times and last night I was way too tired after an early start at work to think too much about it.

Thanks all

 

[bydand]

You have the same problem I do when it comes to this. While I love working with weapons it points out every single little flaw in your technique and magnifies them. When he said you are trying to hard, I used to hear that alot as well. I would think he means you are thinking it through in too fine of detail and not letting it "flow". This is a difficult level because mentally you know how you are supposed to move (you've seen it hundred if not thousands of times from your instructors), but it just isn't there yet. My advice is the same as I was given from somebody years back, "relax, relax, relax. Get the basic movement, then work on filling in the details." works for me and I still have to tell myself that every single time I train. It is like a painting, you don't start out doing the Mona Lisa, you know how it is supposed to be, just do the outline and THEN fill in the holes.

Hope this makes at least a bit of sense.

 

[TheDonster]

It makes perfect sense, my friend, I appreciate all advice (as long as it's constructive and actually relevant of course ).

I just got home from work and I'm about to go outside and work on that particular strike we were doing last night with the hanbo, bo and bokken so I get a different feel for it. I'm hoping that will help me work out the basic movement because I'll be using different weights and lengths.

I also need to work on strikes with my bokken. For some reason they've lost their power from a couple of months ago.

 

[Infinite]

I have learned two things when it comes to making a particular movement natural.

First I do it as slow as I possibly can a few times. I mean painfully slow which helps me identify when my balance is shifting and what my body "WANTS" to do to compensate for the movement.

Second I speed it up and don't think about it at all. I just simply execute sort of think it through once and then close my eyes. I open them and pick my point of reference and strike. Now I don't do this lightning fast or even at the speed I would use in an actual striking situation. I like to call it the walking version of the strike.

You sort of just let your body move at a comfortable speed to complete the manuver.

What this allows me to do is then slow it down again and see the difference between the slow and the quicker vesion. I then approximate the difference and keep refining until I feel I'm matching the goal of the move.

THEN I either get a mirror or a person or an instructor and demonstraight the move. Clarify where I found my weaknesses and strenghts and get their advice.

The first time I did all this the instructor told me I was good to go. Turns out I was doing it slightly different than everyone else. So I asked him and he said, "Your arms are longer and therefore you have to angle a bit more to get the right leverage."

So I'm not sure if your experience level is such that you have done all this and still hit the wall. I'm really just a newbie when it comes to MA but I know it helped me out a lot.

 

[Bigshadow]

Can anyone give me any more advice?

Well, I will offer my 2 cents worth. First thing, keep in mind that weapons will magnify issues in your taijutsu. Also, there are several exercises that teaches proper body movement. The first and foremost would be the Sanshin Katas, maybe your instructor has shown them to you. You should do them frequently. Maybe ask him to review them again. I know for me in the beginning it was hard for me to remember them. I still have confusion with pairing the names with the appropriate kata for a couple of them.

Also, my Sensei (the big man who actually runs the whole lot of local dojos) said that I'm trying too hard. Anyone able to sort of elaborate on this for me?

He may mean over analysis and maybe going too hard on yourself. Try not to analyze in class, reserve that for after class. I usually spend the after class ride and the next morning working the previous class through my mind.

 

[Bigshadow]

First I do it as slow as I possibly can a few times.

THEN I either get a mirror or a person or an instructor and demonstraight the move.

Excellent advice!

 

[Bigshadow]

Oh, get used to that feeling of not feeling up to par. Training is like that. There will be plateaus. Then one day you will realize that what you thought was difficult, you don't even think about it anymore and then further realize that you cannot really remember when that transition happened.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Well, I will offer my 2 cents worth. First thing, keep in mind that weapons will magnify issues in your taijutsu. Also, there are several exercises that teaches proper body movement. The first and foremost would be the Sanshin Katas, maybe your instructor has shown them to you. You should do them frequently. Maybe ask him to review them again. I know for me in the beginning it was hard for me to remember them. I still have confusion with pairing the names with the appropriate kata for a couple of them.



He may mean over analysis and maybe going too hard on yourself. Try not to analyze in class, reserve that for after class. I usually spend the after class ride and the next morning working the previous class through my mind.

Definately good advice. Follow the above and relax and just train. (without to much thought) Follow what the instructor is teaching and try and replicate. Then after class either go through the material in your head or write down some notes. Finally if you have questions ask them at the next class to get some feedback.

It is also good to start getting some of Soke's books and DVD's for referance material. You can use these to look at during those in between class times when you wish to see how a technique can be done.

Good luck!

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Also, my Sensei (the big man who actually runs the whole lot of local dojos) said that I'm trying too hard. Anyone able to sort of elaborate on this for me?

My guess is, like a lot of people, you're trying to minimize the movements prematurely. An interesting thing to notice is that children tend to exaggerate all movements they're shown (which is what you should do at first) while most adults tend to strive to scale things down.

 

[morph4me]

I remember reading something about training plateaus that helped put things into perspective for me. Plateaus show you are improving, that you're recognizing that what you're doing isn't quite right, if you weren't improving you wouldn't realize that you were doing something wrong. Patience and practice will get you through, until the next plateau, which will seem longer.

 

[TheDonster]

I appreciate all the advice! What you guys are saying makes perfect sense to me (especially about plateaus - I've been playing drums for 10 years and I've found a few along the way!). I wish I had the time and money to be able to go to training twice a week but unfortunately I don't - once a week will have to do!

 

[mdamignani]

Go back to the basics. You need to lay the foundation before you can build on it.
Matthew Damignani

 

[Don Roley]

Advice? Drop the weapon. Go back to san shin and do it slowly as others have suggested. After a while, you can go back to the weapon.

 

[TheDonster]

When you say the sanshin, do you mean where you basically move one leg forward, then back, then the other forward and back, and so on? No arm movements, just keeping a deep posture and moving your legs?

If so, I know what you mean and that's a good idea otherwise you've lost me

I'm also going to be working on my Kihon Happo as deep and low as I possibly can (someone posted a link to an article by a French Sensei explaining to have your knee above your big toe in Ichimongi No Kamai and I've given that a go today and REALLY felt it...)

I think I've got the right idea to get things working, it's just a matter of me practising as much as I can now on the absolute basics.

That doesn't worry me at all, I'm all about having solid foundations.

 

[Cryozombie]

When you say the sanshin, do you mean where you basically move one leg forward, then back, then the other forward and back, and so on? No arm movements, just keeping a deep posture and moving your legs?

Sanshin is more than that.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am not a ninjutsu practitioner and I don't even play one on TV and the person I am about to quote was not a ninjutsu person either but it may apply.

After a while, the learning will become easier. Sometimes a student feels good at first, then after a few months, some may begin to feel as if they are not improving and lose their patience. Realize that this also may be a sign of improvement. Be patient and in time you will work through it. Beginners go through many stages, let each stage be a learning experience. -- Tung Ying Chieh

 

[TheDonster]

Sanshin is more than that.

Why bother saying that if you're not going to offer a more in-depth explanation, I made it perfectly clear that I was trying to CLARIFY the concept and you've done nothing. Please don't waste my time again by making useless comments.

 

[Don Roley]

Why bother saying that if you're not going to offer a more in-depth explanation, I made it perfectly clear that I was trying to CLARIFY the concept and you've done nothing. Please don't waste my time again by making useless comments.

It is not useless.

There are certain things that you can't teach people over the internet. The full meaning of san shin is one of them. By telling you that san shin was not just what you thought it was, John gave you enough to realize that you should be looking for more. Your next step should have been to ask your teacher about san shin instead of reacting as you did.

John is a very valuable member here and you just insulted him and acted like things should be handed to you on a silver platter. If you want people to help you, you are going to have to change your that attitude of yours and be ready to do some work on your own.

 

[robertmrivers]

I have no idea what that person is talking about...on the odd chance he meant sanchin... you're talking karate to a bujinkan practitioner...he probably doesn't know what that is.

Back to the topic... I know you have heard this a lot, but the fix is to do it over and over until it becomes natural. When you hit a wall, there are a few things that can inspire and a few things that can disappoint.

Your plight falls in the inspire category. You are a part of an old tradition. This tradition has been handed through the generations. You have to realize that every person since the dawn of that art's creation has had the same problem you are having, yet the system still exists and people all over the world still practice it. Most traditional martial arts are extremely detail oriented and require a lot of time to master. The issue is that your brain and your body are in conflict. Martial arts teach you to go against animalistic instincts (like backing up when scared) and relearn time proven combat tactics (like moving forward when attacked).

You think you have spent a lot of time, but in the grand scheme you're still in the beginning stages. The first degree black belt in Japanese is "Shodan". This means first level. So, you see, everything between now and when you are finally ready for your black belt (you will know undoubtedly know when you are ready) is simply laying the foundation for you to reach the first level...not mastery.

Hope it helps

Rob

Robert M. Rivers
Shin Dojo
www.virginiakempo.com

 

[TheDonster]

It is not useless.

There are certain things that you can't teach people over the internet. The full meaning of san shin is one of them. By telling you that san shin was not just what you thought it was, John gave you enough to realize that you should be looking for more. Your next step should have been to ask your teacher about san shin instead of reacting as you did.

John is a very valuable member here and you just insulted him and acted like things should be handed to you on a silver platter. If you want people to help you, you are going to have to change your that attitude of yours and be ready to do some work on your own.

I don't go back to training until January 9, so I can't talk to my Senseis about it until then. I am more than happy to look for more information but I am sure that there is some stuff I can be told over this forum - moreso than "there's more than that".

I don't expect things to be handed to me on a silver platter, but I don't expect people to waste my time either. If he had said "There's more to it than that, but you would need to speak to your teacher about it" then I would have been happy with the response. Instead, he responded simply as "There's more to it than that", implying that I'm an idiot, and not providing any resolution at all.


I do plenty of work on my own. I have asked for small pieces of advice from people I train with, I have observed the things they do and I have spent a lot of my own time (even closing the door at work when it's quiet) trying to work things out. I was simply looking for a bit more information to help me out and complement what I do know.