It just keeps getting worse over there.

[jfarnsworth]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040620/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_korean_hostage_3

I just read this article and all I can do is shake my head. I would absolutely hate to be over there right now.

.

:asian:

 

[Mark L]

I agree. I heard that Korean was murdered today by those barbaric bastards. I don't know what the answer is to this situation, but continuing to pile up casualties (from wherever they hail) is not good. I don't know whether the media is presenting a balance portrayal of our engagement in Iraq, though I doubt it.

My morals, principles, and MA training tell me to avoid conflict until I can't, then make sure the SOB isn't going to mess with anyone for a good long time.

We're there, how we got there is a point worthy of debate, but we are there. The manner in which we extricate ourselves will define the way the world perceives us for decades. And perception matters. Projecting strength over weakness, righteousness over tyranny, and justice over vengeance is the ideal we should seek. But right now, I'd rather turn the whole country into an ashtray.

Just venting ....

 

[jfarnsworth]

I just hope the best for the troops who are doing what is right. :asian:

 

[Rick Wade]

I just hope the best for the troops who are doing what is right. :asian:

Mr. Farnsworth. You are on the right path. Just keep our troops in your prayers as well as therie loved ones. Just have faith. What I worry about more is the Iran and the three British ships.

V/R

Rick Enlgish

 

[BlueDragon1981]

I think this war is bull@#$%. No matter what we do the people in the Middle east are going to hate the U.S and anyone who helps us. So there is no point in helping them. As soon as they get the help they will turn on us and make us pay for helping them. Bush just wants to finish what his father wanted to do. That is crap. At the expense of his citizens lives. Bullcrap....in case you couldn't tell I have strong feelings on this. Won't get into the rest but my prayers are always out to any American on any hostile foriegn soil.

 

[Taimishu]

Heard on the news that Iran is releasing the British sailors today.

David

 

[jfarnsworth]

Mr. Farnsworth. You are on the right path. Just keep our troops in your prayers as well as therie loved ones. Just have faith. What I worry about more is the Iran and the three British ships.

Just Jason, please. I'm no one special.
I heard on the radio today (I'm not sure how true this is at the moment, I need to do some research) these terrorists are going to start kidnapping anyone who isn't of their descent. They have already vowed to assasinate the newest president. The worst of what I heard was that some of their very low keyed people that live here in the states are going to start abducting people on our own land. Again I don't know how much truth there was to it but this is what I had heard. Now this definately poses a problem. We're going to have to protect our own yards anymore. What a shame. :asian:

 

[white mantis]

I think this war is bull@#$%. No matter what we do the people in the Middle east are going to hate the U.S and anyone who helps us. So there is no point in helping them. As soon as they get the help they will turn on us and make us pay for helping them. Bush just wants to finish what his father wanted to do. That is crap. At the expense of his citizens lives. Bullcrap....in case you couldn't tell I have strong feelings on this. Won't get into the rest but my prayers are always out to any American on any hostile foriegn soil.

Don't get me wrong everone is entitled to thir own oppinon but what would you rather have us do sit on are buts and wait for another 9/11? Atleast are soldiers havent forgot what thir fighting for and my prayers go out to them as well.

 

[RCastillo]

Let's stop all the bull. Just drop a bomb over there and make it into a parking lot. Alot of money goin' down the drain, we're not appreicated, killing our people and not only that, but even they're killing their own now. I'm tired of ignorant people. They give the human race a bad name.

 

[Athena]

Don't get me wrong everone is entitled to thir own oppinon but what would you rather have us do sit on are buts and wait for another 9/11? Atleast are soldiers havent forgot what thir fighting for and my prayers go out to them as well.

iraqis weren't responsible for 9/11... but since iraq is mostly Muslim, bombing it aggressively is more likely than anything else to lead to another terrorist attack. nicholas berg was murdered "in response to the degredation of our muslim brothers," and until we invaded, iraq really wasn't much of a threat to us. saddam was a threat to the citizens of the country, obviously, but so many other dictators are.

sorry, i'm getting preachy. i've read that the u.s. troops are extrememly unprepared for the things they are having to deal with over there, which is terrible.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

iraqis weren't responsible for 9/11

Thank you Athena, good point.

Whether or not someone agrees with why we went over to Iraq in the first place (I don't), whether you believe and support our President (I don't), I think that everyone feels for our troops over there and hopes that they are as safe as possible.

The manner in which we extricate ourselves will define the way the world perceives us for decades. And perception matters. Projecting strength over weakness, righteousness over tyranny, and justice over vengeance is the ideal we should seek.

I think this is also an excellent point.

I know it is a frustruating situation, but just bombing the heck out of Iraq (or anywhere else we get frustruated) sends the worst possible message - that we, as Americans (even if it is a decision made by a few people in the Administration, it will be perceived as coming from all of us) are short-tempered bullies on the world stage. I know that we are capable of far better, and of (somehow) winning back the high esteem that at least part of the world (maybe not Central America, but that's a different thread) had for us years ago.

 

[RCastillo]

iraqis weren't responsible for 9/11... but since iraq is mostly Muslim, bombing it aggressively is more likely than anything else to lead to another terrorist attack. nicholas berg was murdered "in response to the degredation of our muslim brothers," and until we invaded, iraq really wasn't much of a threat to us. saddam was a threat to the citizens of the country, obviously, but so many other dictators are.

sorry, i'm getting preachy. i've read that the u.s. troops are extrememly unprepared for the things they are having to deal with over there, which is terrible.

You're right about the last part. In WWI, we were not prepared for war. In WW2, our military was a joke, and shoulda been ready, considering the danger that was brewing. In Korea, overconfidence, and being unprepared, along with being ill equiped. In Vietnam, you had so many double agents infiltrating, corruption rampent, and fighting a war with pulling punches is no way to win. So suffice it to say, it's always the "Fronline troops", that catch all the hell. Now, we are undermanned, and failed to consider the mindset of the enemy, much like Vietnam.

So much for Top Military Leadership. :asian:

 

[KenpoTess]

Mod Note-

Thread moved from Locker Room to Study as this is the more appropo area for topic discussion.

Thanks

-Tess
-MT S. Mod-

 

[Flatlander]

Let's stop all the bull. Just drop a bomb over there and make it into a parking lot. Alot of money goin' down the drain, we're not appreicated, killing our people and not only that, but even they're killing their own now. I'm tired of ignorant people. They give the human race a bad name.

Do you actually believe this to be an appropriate course of action, or are you just venting?

 

[RCastillo]

Do you actually believe this to be an appropriate course of action, or are you just venting?

Like the News Commentator Paul Harvey said this morning, "Can you understand the mindset of the Middle Eastern People?" Well, no one really can." That says it all. Even our other enemies from the past woke up. Apparently, these won't. Their mindset in Islam is a "Steel Trap," and it ain't gonna open. They want total anarchy, so why continue fooling around? Quit pulling punches. Get out, or clean house. :asian:

 

[OUMoose]

They want total anarchy, so why continue fooling around?

Hardly. The terrorists are most all militant fundamentalist muslims. They don't want anarchy. Exactly the opposite actually. They hate us and the rest of the west due to our freedoms. Anarchy is TOTAL freedom. Now I can't say what they truely want, since I'm certainly not one, but I can guess that the last thing they want is to promote MORE freedom...

 

[Flatlander]

Like the News Commentator Paul Harvey said this morning, "Can you understand the mindset of the Middle Eastern People?" Well, no one really can." That says it all. Even our other enemies from the past woke up. Apparently, these won't. Their mindset in Islam is a "Steel Trap," and it ain't gonna open. They want total anarchy, so why continue fooling around? Quit pulling punches. Get out, or clean house. :asian:

1. I think that the Middle Eastern people can understand their own mindset, so there's someone who can. Have they ever asked anyone else to? Do you think they understand yours? Would it be wrong if they didn't?

2. The mindset in Islamic Fundamentalist Extremism may be a "Steel Trap", but don't make hasty generalizations.

Your post reads as though you have an issue with the level of severity with which the coalition forces are addressing the issue.

Just drop a bomb over there and make it into a parking lot.

Would ending the lives of all of those people make you feel better? Then certainly, by all means, jump on a plane, get over there and carry out your mission. But I hope you don't complain when you're brought in front of a war crimes tribunal for your extremist viewpoints.

I for one feel that you should punish those at fault, not their neighbors, family members, and the rest of the population who are just trying to scratch out a living.

 

[RCastillo]

1. I think that the Middle Eastern people can understand their own mindset, so there's someone who can. Have they ever asked anyone else to? Do you think they understand yours? Would it be wrong if they didn't?

2. The mindset in Islamic Fundamentalist Extremism may be a "Steel Trap", but don't make hasty generalizations.

Your post reads as though you have an issue with the level of severity with which the coalition forces are addressing the issue.


Would ending the lives of all of those people make you feel better? Then certainly, by all means, jump on a plane, get over there and carry out your mission. But I hope you don't complain when you're brought in front of a war crimes tribunal for your extremist viewpoints.

I for one feel that you should punish those at fault, not their neighbors, family members, and the rest of the population who are just trying to scratch out a living.

Right, they can understand thier own mindset so well, they butcher each other. I call em as they bring it out.

Do they understand mine? I don't know, I'm not over there trying to "win their hearts & minds." I got my own country to worry about.

It's irreleveant whether it makes me feel better, or not. But when I see innocent Americans murdered, I don't play that.

The hasty generalizations you speak of are the norm over there. As a History Teacher, I know how they are. Prove otherwise.

My issue is this, strike hard, or get out. You can't defeat the booby traps you can't see. My nephew is there, I don't want to see him come home in a body bag because of that. Fight face to face, and let the stronger one prevail.

You know what, I'm not telling you what to do, so who are you to tell me what to do? You want to converse, fine, but save the crap about War Crimes because it's your money , and your govt at work in this too.

I might be extreme, but I wouldn't lay down for anyone. I'm betting youre not a minority, so you have no historical perspective to speak from. What do you know about people being ignored, mistreated, and lied about?

I'm not punishing anyone, our govt is. I don't set policy, but I don't have to like it as our people get wasted.

 

[RCastillo]

Hardly. The terrorists are most all militant fundamentalist muslims. They don't want anarchy. Exactly the opposite actually. They hate us and the rest of the west due to our freedoms. Anarchy is TOTAL freedom. Now I can't say what they truely want, since I'm certainly not one, but I can guess that the last thing they want is to promote MORE freedom...[/QUOTE

I must be wrong then? When you call out your own Prime Minister and threaten to waste him, kill their own Police, Military and anyone else that sides with us, along with civilians then I guess they're just being selective.

 

[Flatlander]

You're right, you shouldn't have to like it. I don't like it either. I think there is no shortage of people who should be held accountable. My only issue was with the use of force you seem to endorse. We must agree to disagree on that one.

I'm curious though,

As a History Teacher, I know how they are.

would you care to elaborate on this? Who, and how, are 'they'?