Is Self-Defence too loaded a word?

[Shotgun Buddha]

Howdy, just wondering if anyone else thinks that these days self-defence is just a tad too loaded a term? Its got so many mindsets and interpretations associated with it, that it means you could be studying damn near anything. I mean these days it covers everything from the pacifistic disabling without harm, to going on the full offensive straight for his eye-balls.
Sometimes I wish they'd just remove the term from anything to do with martial arts.
I figure much better off using the term "Learn how to handle yourself" rather than "Learn to defend yourself"
The first one seems alot harder to warp out of context, more down to earth.

 

[exile]

I figure much better off using the term "Learn how to handle yourself" rather than "Learn to defend yourself"
The first one seems alot harder to warp out of context, more down to earth.

I think `self-defense' is useful as an indication of a particular training style in a given MA (as per your posts on that other thread), as vs. training for sport competition or for fitness or whatever. I just take it to be shorthand for `applicable to combat under reasonably realistic conditions'. `Learn how to handle yourself' is a bit general; it would also apply to sport-oriented training, for example...

 

[Blindside]

I don't think the term "self-defense" is more or less descriptive or connatative than the equally vague term of "learn how to handle yourself."

I prefer the term "self-protection" myself, but whatever, it is basically semantics. The skills necessary for good self-defense extend far beyond physical skills, so the subject matter is incredibly broad to begin with. Are you trying to redefine the term "self-defense" to figure out if a guy can fight?

Lamont

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

I don't think the term "self-defense" is more or less descriptive or connatative than the equally vague term of "learn how to handle yourself."

I prefer the term "self-protection" myself, but whatever, it is basically semantics. The skills necessary for good self-defense extend far beyond physical skills, so the subject matter is incredibly broad to begin with. Are you trying to redefine the term "self-defense" to figure out if a guy can fight?

Lamont

I suppose I prefer the term because it doesn't specify the physical. It just means you know how to deal with the situation, which nicely covers elements such as situational awareness and verbal de-escalation, as well as hitting them with a chair if neccessary.
Whereas self defence as seems to me at least, have a more physical specific connotation.

Hehe, I know its all semantics, but when we're not telling other monkeys where the ripe fruit is, thats all language is.

 

[Blindside]

Whereas self defence as seems to me at least, have a more physical specific connotation.

And oddly enough, I get exactly the opposite implication.

Lamont

 

[Garth Barnard]

The term Self-Defence is a bit of a misnomer. By that I mean if an individual is DEFENDING him/herself from a physical assault, then their awareness and avoidance skills, being their primary actions, have FAILED them.
Of course, if the individual is ambushed, then they will have to defend themselves, but initial awareness and avoidance is paramount for Self Protection, which is the term that I prefer to use.

Self Protection is:

• (UK) Law
• Awareness & Avoidance
• Escapes
• Conflict Management
• Adrenaline Management
• Striking Techniques
• Passive Stances
• Edged Weapon Defense
• Improvised Weapons
• Mindset

Having said that, as a general term, Self-Defence is a term that I use initially before explaining Self Protection in detail.

 

[morph4me]

I interpret self defense as meaning after a conflict I get to go home to my family, nothing more and nothing less, it has no connotation other than that.

That being said, I know of people who interpret self defense as learning how to hurt other people, situataional awareness and verbal de-escalation never seem to enter the equation in their minds.

In my mind self protection is more a physical response, but what do I know.

 

[exile]

If you want to ask the original question---is SD too loaded a word?--- you really need to say, too loaded for whom. An experienced practitioner will generally see `self-defense' in contrast to other familiar MA training approaches, and I suspect, in most cases, has a fairly good idea of what the dojo or dojang or whatever that's offering SD-oriented training is claiming to teach (whether or they actually do it is a different story). On the other hand, a lot of people I know who don't do MA think that the only thing you do in MAs is learn effective defenses against unwelcome violence, and someone like that will wonder why you're bothering to spell out that the MA training you offer is for `self defense'---like, what else would it be? I guess I don't see where any real problem arises from the use of the term... were you thinking of some particular situation where the use of `self defense' confuses people or gives them the wrong idea, SB?

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

And oddly enough, I get exactly the opposite implication.

Lamont

Hehe I guess its just background. Im from Ireland and we're pretty physical minded, so saying defence would have us thinking there's an attack, if that makes sense to you?
Where's handling yourself doesn't have that, just seems more like being able to deal with a situation.
Or else doing something dirty.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

If you want to ask the original question---is SD too loaded a word?--- you really need to say, too loaded for whom. An experienced practitioner will generally see `self-defense' in contrast to other familiar MA training approaches, and I suspect, in most cases, has a fairly good idea of what the dojo or dojang or whatever that's offering SD-oriented training is claiming to teach (whether or they actually do it is a different story). On the other hand, a lot of people I know who don't do MA think that the only thing you do in MAs is learn effective defenses against unwelcome violence, and someone like that will wonder why you're bothering to spell out that the MA training you offer is for `self defense'---like, what else would it be? I guess I don't see where any real problem arises from the use of the term... were you thinking of some particular situation where the use of `self defense' confuses people or gives them the wrong idea, SB?

Just a sort of general irritation at the marketing purposes of the term I guess, Ive been seeing it used in reference to some very unrealistic things recently, and I guess its just a reaction to that.

 

[morph4me]

Hehe I guess its just background. Im from Ireland and we're pretty physical minded, so saying defence would have us thinking there's an attack, if that makes sense to you?
Where's handling yourself doesn't have that, just seems more like being able to deal with a situation.
Or else doing something dirty.

My favorite example of self defense is something that happened to me as a teenager. I was walking down the street when I was approached by to men, one of them stopped me and asked me for a cigarette, the other walked past. I turned my back to a wall so I could see both of them and said "No, I don't smoke". The guy who walked past me had turned around, and would have been standing behind me had I not turned. They decided to move on and find an easier target and I watched them walk away before I did. Successful self defense, no pain and no blood.

 

[exile]

Just a sort of general irritation at the marketing purposes of the term I guess, Ive been seeing it used in reference to some very unrealistic things recently, and I guess its just a reaction to that.

Ah, so your gripe is really about marketing (dis)honesty and (lack of) integrity. But I wonder if any change in terminology is going to contribute towards a solution to those problems. The MA business is probably even tougher to survive in than the restaurant trade, and people will do anything they think will bring in customers to stay afloat, I would guess. Caveat emptor with a vengeance.

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Ah, so your gripe is really about marketing (dis)honesty and (lack of) integrity. But I wonder if any change in terminology is going to contribute towards a solution to those problems. The MA business is probably even tougher to survive in than the restaurant trade, and people will do anything they think will bring in customers to stay afloat, I would guess. Caveat emptor with a vengeance.

True enough, and I know that any other terms used would be equally twisted in time. Just slightly venting on the issue I guess.

 

[exile]

True enough, and I know that any other terms used would be equally twisted in time. Just slightly venting on the issue I guess.

Well, there's plenty to vent about! I feel very lucky to have wound up with the instructor that I did. When I say caveat emptor, I don't mean that it's OK for people to be in that position. For most things you buy, there are all kinds of resources you can access to get a sense of the quality of the goods or services, but MA is one of the few areas where you really are pretty much on your own. Most of the time, if you don't have a friend or acquaintance who's already doing a MA and has enough experience with the school to be able to give you a `battle-tested' opinion of how good the place is, it's pretty much a crapshoot. No Consumer Reports, Lemon-Aid or Angie's List to guide someone who wants to get started... at least, as far as know... at least, I don't think I've ever seen an Angie's List category `martial arts instruction'. Now that I think of it, though, I can't see why that wouldn't be something for A's L...

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Well, there's plenty to vent about! I feel very lucky to have wound up with the instructor that I did. When I say caveat emptor, I don't mean that it's OK for people to be in that position. For most things you buy, there are all kinds of resources you can access to get a sense of the quality of the goods or services, but MA is one of the few areas where you really are pretty much on your own. Most of the time, if you don't have a friend or acquaintance who's already doing a MA and has enough experience with the school to be able to give you a `battle-tested' opinion of how good the place is, it's pretty much a crapshoot. No Consumer Reports, Lemon-Aid or Angie's List to guide someone who wants to get started... at least, as far as know... at least, I don't think I've ever seen an Angie's List category `martial arts instruction'. Now that I think of it, though, I can't see why that wouldn't be something for A's L...

I know what you mean. I know enough to recognise what good solid training is like now, and Im lucky enough that Im training in two places that are like that. Also able to advise friends where to go for all the different things they might be looking for.
But it would be impossible to setup any type of proper directory about this stuff, since far too many martial artists are convinced that what they train is perfect.

 

[searcher]

I think it is a victims word. I prefer self-protection to it. It is all just part of the mindset.

 

[exile]

But it would be impossible to setup any type of proper directory about this stuff, since far too many martial artists are convinced that what they train is perfect.

Right---unlike the case of the guy who screws up royally doing a tile job on your shower, you aren't necessarily going to twig to the fact that the McDojo/McDojang head teaching plain basic stuff as deadly-effective reality-based tech and awarding BBs to anyone who can keep up the payments has failed you. The problem is, you kind of already have to know something about what is sound and tested in the MAs and what is flash, glitter and packaging in order to know whether you're getting quality in a MA school... it really isn't clear that there's any solution to this problem... I mean, the stuff that emerged in that Geary thread over at the Kempo forum was scary.

 

[Andrew Green]

"Redirection of a less then pleasant intent towards physical well being"

 

[Garth Barnard]

I think it is a victims word. I prefer self-protection to it. It is all just part of the mindset.

On the money!

 

[Carol]

It really doesn't matter to me. My interests are my interest regardless of whether they are called Self-Defense, Self-Protection, Martial Arts, Knife Fighting, American Kenpo, or what have you.

Self-Defense does have a specific legal definition, which includes a threat made on one's life. If the term "Self-Defense" helps a MAist better understand what is Self Defense and what is Murder Two, all the better.