Improving the gene pool of the American People....

[Bester]

"A 25-year-old from Georgia who was distraught over President Bush's re-election apparently killed himself at ground zero."
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/07/ground.zero.suicide.ap/index.html

People, this is insane. Kerry lost, Bush won, and despite what some wish to delude themselves and think, Bush won this election fairly. There are no "hanging chads" or months of recounts here. He got the popular and the electoral by a wide margin. There were no wide spread "conspiracies" to "rig the vote". Yes there were some issues, but do you honestly believe there were 3 million worth?

We have a large number of morons now trying to seek asylum in Canada. Do any of you really think Canada needs or wants that many whiners? They have their own problems. High taxes (50%+) are just one. You people who complain about your 8% sales tax, do you really want to go where they pay almost 20% sales tax? (PST, GST and I believe 1 other in some parts)

We had Michael Moore and many other celebrities make the statement that if Bush won, they would leave. Well folks, it is good to know that these "celebs" were people of their word. Wait, they are all still here? Can we say "Bandwagon" and "Flip-Flop" boys and girls? Celebs are in the majority of cases only "speaking out" for the publicity. They are media and attention whores. "Bash Bush get free publicity." I'm willing to bet that at least half of them did not even bother to vote this year.

Bush is gone in 2008. Cheney can't run, he already has 1 foot in the grave. The 2008 race is wide open. Rather than whine, complain and otherwise masturbate, get off your lazy fat American asses and do something.

Even if it's just to put shotgun in mouth and remove yourself from the gene pool.

All I see in here is "whine" "whine" "whine".

"Bush is the antichrist" - Waah.
"Kerry lost we're doomed" - Waah.
"My side didn't even register, I'm so depressed" - Waah.

Kaith put up his own ideas. No chance in hell of even 1 vote this year, but he offered some solutions to the problems. Mark Weiser did the same. Flatlander pumped both for more details. a couple other voices chimed in, but that was it.

Can any of the rest of your whiners do more than complain like cramping old women? Is this forum going to be nothing more than "Bush Bashing" and "Lusting for Kerry" for 4 more years?

I said this before, I'll say it again.
-Didn't vote? - STFU until 2008
- Only voted? - Just quiet you passivist.
- Got out and got involved? - Cool. Lets talk.

If all you can do is complain, whine and long for the "Kerry Wet Dream", shut up.
It has gotten old.

Why don't you take an issue (You know, those things the 2 people everyone here seems to be stroking to did not really work on) and come up with a sollution. Something that can be taken to our elected officials, pushed up the proper chanels and maybe, just maybe put into action?

Unless we get involved, and forcibly take back our government, they will continue to think and act for us. Like poor little lambs.

You can either get involved, define the issues, examine the problems, and develop solutions or you can sit around the house in your "Not My President" tee shirts doing the "Washington Shuffle" to your poster of John Kerry.

You're choice people.

Let the shirk-fest commence.

 

[heretic888]

Hrmmm.... I was unaware that freedom of speech came with conditions. Or, that Bester was the one that establishes said conditions.

Most intriguing.

 

[Bester]

If you did not vote in this last election, or any election you do not deserve that right.

You gave it up.


If you voted for someone who lost, complain all you want. You tried.

It is those lazy, worthless slobs who will complain about everything, but do nothing that need to STFU.

Did you vote heretic?
If not, then be quiet sheep.

 

[heretic888]

If you did not vote in this last election, or any election you do not deserve that right.

You gave it up.

I would be interested as to which part of the constitution includes a subsection about those declining from voting as being unable to exercise their constitutional rights.

Also, apparently those ineligible for voting (such as non-citizens or minors) do not have the right to voice their opinions.

I would also find it interesting to know what governing body gave you authority to execute said law, bester. It would be most intriguing indeed.

And, just to keep the record straight, I did vote.

 

[Bester]

Considering that neither of the 2 major parties cares for the Constitution, except where it suits their own needs I don't see how it applies.

You are right. They don't
The US Constitution protects US citizens. Non-citizens are not covered by it. Minors do not have any rights other than those specifically awarded to them. The Constitution does not specify coverage for minors.

The governing body is me. I am part of that "We The People" Kaith keeps blathering about. I am pretty certain others are fed up with the ***** fest as well.

Good.

 

[Adept]

It is those lazy, worthless slobs who will complain about everything, but do nothing that need to STFU.

Did you vote heretic?
If not, then be quiet sheep.

Just so you know, I have reported this post. While I agree with your basic premise, I feel your tone and method of delivery are way out of line.

I dont believe in limiting the right to free speech of folks, whether they be citizens or not, or whether they voted or not. But I do think that people who failed to vote (assuming they were eligable) should at the least feel very hypocritical when criticising the outcome of the election.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

We independents and Democrats (and Republicans too) who voted against the President been given an opportunity to rub your face in Bush's idiotic posturing for four more years. I consider that an upside to this election. Defending Kerry is no longer an issue or distraction, and we can focus on Bush's gaffes. Lacking any ability to riposte you'll call it whining, of course. I'll call it fun.

You now have the keys to power. You guys have Congress. You have the White House. You have the majority of the governorships. Anything that goes south from here on in is your responsibility and takes place on your watch. We're going to remind you of that every step of the way.

I for one am going to revel in Bush's malaprops. I'm going to giggle in sadistic glee as he squirms when dealing with the problems he needlessly created in Mess-o-potamia. I'm going to give Bush supporters a mocking boo boo lip when they lose their jobs, find their health care inadquate, or find they can't get compensation for injurious negligence on the part of a large corporation. When a Republican finds funding for their disabled child's education cut or when they complain because science teachers teach creationism, I'll soothingly pat them on the back and say "Hey...take one for the team here. At least we don't have gays getting married, eh?"

We have *****-slapped you conservatives for the last six months here on MT. We have provided the weight of evidence against Bush et al and at every turn have out debated you and out reasoned you. And now we get to do it for an additional 208 weeks.

Have at thee, Hotspur.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Bester]

Adept, you are entitled to your opinion.
However, your opinion if you did not vote, does not count.
The person who says nothing, deserves nothing.

"First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me."


Steve - I voted Green. Just for the record.

 

[Bester]

I have posted 4 questions that I see as relevant to the issues and fall out of this past election. We can seek solutions, or we can wallow in self-pity. You can complain that I am rude, or insulting. You can also take a close look at yourself and answer the true questions that I have raised. You do not have to like my wording. You can not escape the truth however deeply one has buried ones head in the sand. See, the "Head in the sand" posture still exposes you to violation.

I now leave you with a picture of the American Public. I hope that before 2008, this picture will change.

 

[heretic888]

Hrmmm.... what it is that possesses people into thinking they can bark commands as to who can or can not voice an opinion is beyond me. I mean, you can disagree with opinions all you want, but then chirping about how someone doesn't have "the right" to speak that opinion is rather odd, IMO.

Never knew that "univesal rights of mankind" were conditional. Kinda interesting, when you think about it.

Then again, I suppose that's why I voted for Kerry.

 

[Adept]

Adept, you are entitled to your opinion.
However, your opinion if you did not vote, does not count.
The person who says nothing, deserves nothing.

Fair call, and if you read my post carefully, you'll see I actually agree with you. But just because someone is a hypocrite (sp?) doesnt mean they dont have a right to voice their opinion. It's as if you were building a community building, and everyone gets a chance to vote on the colour you paint it. After all the votes are counted, the building gets painted blue. Just then someone who has had nothing to do with building or painting it comes along and says "Blue sucks, you should have painted it Cherry".

Now, his opinion is prefectly valid, but it doesnt change the fact that the building is blue and not cherry, and no-one needs to listen to his opinion. But stopping him from voicing it altogether is not only unfeasable, but childish.

The bottom line is; let people *****. It doesnt hurt you, and their words are simply so much hot air on the wind.

And for the record, I voted (It's compulsory in Australia, where I live) and I voted for the conservative right.

 

[Bester]

They gave up that right when they refused to stand for it.

As to the "univesal rights of mankind", what are they?


There are universal truths, some of them are:

It's always the musk gland.

When in doubt, use the phrase, "That'll pass through the digestive tract of a cat, no problem."

Don't touch that.

Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

When ordering drive-through fast food, the best drink to order is either a small medium drink, or a large orange Coke.

Orbital Ion Cannons are useful for destroying the Earth; non-orbital Ion Cannons are not. So long, Neptune.

Never pet a burning dog.

A guy named Shicklegruber couldn't have conquered Europe.

There's nothing quite like taking a jar full of bees into a classroom during an exam, then smashing the jar, shrieking, "BEES!" and running in terror from the room.

The German language requires over five hundred tons of krazy glue a day in order to make all their kooky words stick together.

The best way to end a conversation is to suddenly loudly exclaim "END TRANSMISSION" and just walk away.

Three things in the world would be able to survive a general nuclear war: Australians, cockroaches, and my first car, a 1978 Chrysler LeBaron, which employed more steel in its construction than any ten modern US Naval Destroyers.

When responding to an advertisement which claims that no prior experience is necessary, be sure to ask if Richard Pryor experience is of any help.

Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line. Conversely, never go in against your room mates when your wash is on the line.

Better safe than hit in the face by a baseball bat with nails driven into it, I always say. Yep. I always say that.

If you're ever without a gift when a girlfriend/wife/gender-appropriate-relation-of-equitable-standing springs a surprise birthday or anniversary (like they couldn't plan these things ahead or something), win them over by saying that you will recite from them a poem you have committed to memory. Quote a poem by the fictitious Chinese poet, Lu Po, which begins with five thousand three hundred and seventeen stanzas of silence. The next day, randomly say, "I'm sorry, I forgot the rest, but here's a nice necklace/set of earrings/angry badger/cameo by Wally the Warning Walrus to make it up to you."

Happiness is like a pineapple: it hurts you on the outside and is yellow on the inside.

Laughter is not the best medicine. That's a cocktail of morphine and penicillin.

Animal cruelty isn't funny if the animal in question is cute or useful for something.

And, of course, advice from that laugh-a-minute prankster, Hegel: that which is is that which in its being is being that which percieves its own state of being as itself, not without itself.

 

[Bester]

People from outside the US can comment since the fallout will in some way effect them. My complaint is strictly with those within the US, who could have, but didn't vote. It's not 'who' they voted for, but if they did at all.

The misinformed, lazy, 'know it alls' that didn't vote as a "protest", who now whine that Bush was elected, and then justify it by saying "well, my vote wouldn't have counted anyway".

We have about 200-220 Million eligible voters in the US this year. We had about 120 Million vote. That leaves about 100 Million people who will be commenting and complaining who really need to shut up. They had well over a year to register, locate their poling place and do a little reading. They were allowed, by law, the time off (with pay) to go and vote. This right was bought and paid for by hundreds of thousands of lives over the past 200+ years.

When people get into the "right to voice their opinion", then suggest that I be punished for doing just that (as the PM I just received was demanding the mods ban me for the initial post here), well, there is some level of hypocrisy going on, wouldn't you say?

 

[Rynocerous]

We have a large number of morons now trying to seek asylum in Canada. Do any of you really think Canada needs or wants that many whiners? They have their own problems. High taxes (50%+) are just one. You people who complain about your 8% sales tax, do you really want to go where they pay almost 20% sales tax? (PST, GST and I believe 1 other in some parts

)

Actually in most provinces sales tax is 14%. My parents combined gross is 105K a year, and they take home about 54k a year. If the American whiners want to come help us out of our deficit please you are definately welcome. Although before you come you might want to aquire a taste for whale blubber, learn how to be a lumberjack, and you aren't allowed to say Zee it is Zed! LOL.


Oh and by the way, you might want to hurry up, and get good Real Estate for your igloo, it's about that time!

Cheers,

Ryan

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Warning

Keep the discussion civil.

 

[Rynocerous]

You know Bester, what about someone in my position? I am residing in Canada, and sent away to get my vote. I never recieved my ballot, and in turn didn't get to vote. I am not complaining about the turnout because I support Bush, but if I wanted to, could I complain, or was my freedom of speech revoked because I didn't vote? Just curious on your outlook.

The governing body is me. I am part of that "We The People" Kaith keeps blathering about. I am pretty certain others are fed up with the ***** fest as well.

Oh and this comment was uncalled for. This forum is used so people can voice their opinion and have intelectual debates. If someone wants to "blather", let them "blather". That is the beauty of this thing called the freedom of speech that you keep talking about.

 

[Bester]

Rynocerous - You tried. That is different than having done nothing. The target of my ire here is those that could have stood up and been counted, but did not.

You are right. This forum is to voice opinion and have intelectual debates. Unfortunately, all too often it turns into just another "Bash Bush" or "Bash Kerry" thread, and nothing really is accomplished. Kaith can say what he wants. I agree and disagree with him. That is the beauty of it all. But he, and I while we may disagree, can debate point-counterpoint without resorting to the "just kill them all" comments that a few vocal know-it-alls here resort to when they have nothing of substance to add to a conversation. I believe Kaith took my "blather" comment the way I intended it, which wasn't in a negative way.

I am just tired of all the complaining without the offering of solutions, and believe others here are as well.

It is like everyone is standing around going "The house is on fire." "Sure is." "Man thats a big fire. Someone should put it out." "Yup, someone should" "Wow that sure is hot."

If you want to fix the problem, people need to stop being passive spectators and start being active initiators.

 

[MA-Caver]

Originally Posted by Bester
It is those lazy, worthless slobs who will complain about everything, but do nothing that need to STFU.
Did you vote heretic?
If not, then be quiet sheep.

Just so you know, I have reported this post. While I agree with your basic premise, I feel your tone and method of delivery are way out of line.

I agree, I didn't vote but I don't think I deserved the kick in the shins because of it... I'll say WOOF not BAA.

I dont believe in limiting the right to free speech of folks, whether they be citizens or not, or whether they voted or not. But I do think that people who failed to vote (assuming they were eligable) should at the least feel very hypocritical when criticising the outcome of the election.

Adept, you are entitled to your opinion.
However, your opinion if you did not vote, does not count.
The person who says nothing, deserves nothing.

Interesting that you entitle a person to their opinion but only so long as they vote, so long as they follow the herd (Baaa). Thus, taking away their consitutional right to say... nothing. In essence taking away our consitutional (God given) right to be human beings.
Adept is just one guy out of many... including me, that didn't vote this year. They say we don't help the democratic process (this is a republic by the way )by not voting. Well, uhh, err... does it help by putting either one of the lesser of two evils in office? Better the devil you know than the one you don't? Or the other way around?? :idunno:
Men that are willing to sling mud at each other in public (and spend millions of dollars doing it) makes me wonder their true motives for wanting to BE in office in the first place. They wanna make this a better country? Well how does defaming and putting down your opponent make you qualified to make this a better country... leaders by example and all stuff...don't cha know?
Until presidential (and other) candidates in (any) political race start focusing on their strengths and how they feel they can do a good to great job, rather than focus on their opponents' weaknesses... I mean geez the race for the white-house isn't a fight where you look for weaknesses and exploit it.

My not voting is speaking volumes (in my worthless opinon) by saying I do not approve of either of the candidates. Voting says you do. By not voting I say that neither of the two are esteemed enough in my eyes to be worthy to sit behind the desk at the Oval Office. The several dozen million other people who didn't vote seem to think the same way.

 

[Bester]

Well, uhh, err... does it help by putting either one of the lesser of two evils in office?... By not voting I say that neither of the two are esteemed enough in my eyes to be worthy to sit behind the desk at the Oval Office.

Wow, and here I thought there were more than just 2 people running. I'll bet Earl Dodge didn't know he wasn't really running. You had a choice, you just sat back and justified it by saying "Theres only 2". A Million! other people thought they had a choice.

Results 2004 Erection
George W. Bush * (R) 58,978,616 51%
John F. Kerry (D) 55,384,497 48%
Ralph Nader (I) 394,578 0%
Michael Badnarik (Lib.) 377,940 0%
Michael A. Peroutka (CST) 129,842 0%
David Cobb (Green) 105,525 0%
Leonard Peltier (PFP) 21,616 0%
Walter F. Brown (I) 10,258 0%
James Harris (SWP) 6,699 0%
Roger Calero (SWP) 5,274 0%
None of These Candidates (Una.) 3,646 0%
Thomas J. Harens (OTH) 2,395 0%
Bill Van Auken (I) 2,078 0%
Gene Amondson (Lib.) 1,896 0%
John Parker (LU) 1,159 0%
Charles Jay (PCH) 867 0%
Stanford "Andy" E. Andress (Una.) 720 0%
Earl F. Dodge (Phb.) 122 0%

 

[Bob Hubbard]

You left me out of the list.
I got 6.
(and would have died of shock had I really won)