I'll Just Run!!!

[MJS]

I'll just run.

I'll just kick him in the nuts and run.

There is no defense for that, so I'll just run.


The above are the typical comments that some people say, usually when the discussion is focused on dealing with multiple opponents or weapons, specifically a knife. And yes, of course, if you can get the hell out of an area, why not do so? I mean, if the situation allows, I'd do my best to get away as well. However, I'm also prepared to deal with those situations, should escape not be an option.

Now, when I say 'should it not be an option' I'm talking about when you're with someone who isn't capable of running or its not possible to leave. Of course, I'm no track star, so there is nothing to say that if I did try to run, that the guy wouldn't chase after me anyways. So now, after trying to run, now I lose steam, the badguy catches up to me, and now I have to fight with him anyways.

So, this brings up the question....why do people put so much faith into running? Seems to me that running is the typical answer that everyone says, but always fails to mention plan b. It also tells me that some people that advocate this so much, may not have the skills to deal with the situation they're facing, so thats the best they can do....I'll just run.

 

[still learning]

Hello, NO two situtions will be the same or scenarios'...

One should always think about escaping if one can...if you have a person who cannot "run" ...than one has to think about fighting back...(after you tried talking your way out)..

You will "win" some and "lose" some....there is NO guarantees' in life...

...this one hopes...Chuck Norris and John (Rambo) ..is just around cornor (eye witness)...

Aloha,

 

[Ken Morgan]

You've got only two options, fight or flight.

In a fight, you will be hurt in some way, shape or form. If you choose to run, you have a chance of coming out of it with no physical harm. People are afraid of being hurt.

To me, my reaction will all depend on the situation I face. I may run, or I may stand my ground, I won't know until it happens.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, it's a balancing act which 'tactic' to pick, the fulcrum being where, when and how the situation goes to hell in a hand cart.

Standing and fighting in a clearly losing situation is not smart ... but neither is acting like prey and fleeing too early when there is a chance to resolve a confrontation with noone ending up in ER.

 

[theletch1]

Actually, you have three options... fight, flight... or freeze. Grasping to the idea that one could just kick to the groin and run as a complete self defense style in and of itself will quite often result in the "freeze" instead of the fight or flight. Training in other forms of self defense can at the very least engrain some reaction into your brain that will eliminate the freeze aspect of self defense. I've heard the same thing from many folks that come to the women's self defense seminars that I give now and then. Part of the problem there is that many folks simply don't believe that they are capable of defending themselves so the "kick them and run" defense sound like all they have available. Generally, though, after a seminar I see a few lights come on.

 

[morph4me]

I'm old and fat and have excercise induced asthma, running is not really an option for me, unless it's a very short run. I'm sure I'm not alone. Running is plan "B" for me, plan "A" is making sure I won't be chased.

 

[sfs982000]

The situation definitely dictates the reaction, a person could be hit with the exact same scenario mulitple times and their reaction wouldn't be the same for each one.

 

[jks9199]

Why do people put a lot of stock in a plan to run away?

'Cause running is easy and doesn't take special training which might lead them to confront things about themselves they might not like.

It's the same way that many people who hold concealed weapons permits say "I'll just shoot my way out!" They ignore the possibility that they won't be able to draw fast enough, or won't have a safe backdrop to shoot into (do you really want to wing a few rounds in the direction of the elementary school playground?), or aren't confronted with a lethal force situation...

 

[Xue Sheng]

If at all possible run…. if not possible there are other options.

And for the record kicking someone in the nuts is no guarantee, but then neither is running...or fighting.

 

[stickarts]

In the majority of cases that I have heard discussion of running as an option, the intent was to point out that it is a good option when possible if you can avoid a confrontation. Sometimes people get so locked into the mind set of the fight aspect that they forget that perhaps you can get away without a scuffle and you need not feel embarassed by avoiding a fight.
It comes down to the idea of fighting only as a last resort.
No, running may not always be possible, or even be the best option, but it should be on the table as a potential option along with all the others.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Avoiding and escaping means living to see tomorrow...

If have to run and can out run the attackers...tomorrow will come..

If running and getting caught? ...maybe 60/40 percent chance either way...maybe see tomorrow-even if only one eye?

...facing muliple attackers? ...90 percent chance serious injuries...10 percent drying from injuries...will NOT see tomorrow maybe?

life can be short or long....tomorrow may or may not come? Enjoy the moments of NO problems..learn what happness is...

"Depends" ....Nike or high heels? ...one runs faster...and one looks more pretty!

....nice to see a rising sun, everyday...even if we have to chase it! ..

Aloha, ..more driving than running today...car is faster?

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi,

I was wanting to add a few things, but reading through most of what I wanted to say has already been addressed... oh, well, can't be first all the time. But to recap what I would have said:

The idea of "fight or flight" is not entirely correct. As theletch1 said, the third aspect is "freeze". And one aspect is as said, a number of martial artists train themselves to go into "freeze-frame" mode after a technique, after all, in the dojo when the technique is done and finished, you stand there. And in a movie, the star always holds a pose for the camera after delivering their blow. So it is not entirely uncommon to encounter it that way for a martial artist.

However, "freeze" is also a common responce for non-trained persons, before any technique or movement is made, and held as they are attacked. The reason is simply a survival mechanism (as are the fight and flight responces). Essentially the psychological concept is to not appear as a target, or even to "disappear" to a degree... think the defence against the T-Rex in Jurassic Park.

Basically the responces are as follows:
Fight - I will fight for survival or supremacy against the threat.
Flight - I will escape from the threat by gaining as much distance as I can.
Freeze - I will avoid the threat by not being seen as a threat myself.

So trained or untrained, any of these responces could come out. In fact, a majority of training is in order to avoid the last responce (freeze), and allow you to choose which of the others you will use at the time, based on various factors (by the way, in the main the responce you use will be decided by factors other than conscious choice for most people. It will be decided by factors such as relative threat level, distance from the threat, and past experience, meaning that flight usually kicks in after a certain distance, with fight and freeze happening if the threat is closer, regardless of what your conscious mind "thinks" you would do).

However, to let MJS know about alternatives, this is how we deal with things.

Within Japanese martial arts this is dealt with by utilising the concepts of Mushin and Zanshin, I will discuss Zanshin here, as it is relevant. Zanshin is often translated as "awareness", and is expressed after a technique is performed. In essence, the practitioner strives to stay "aware" of their surroundings after a kata/waza, keeping the opponent in view, but also being aware of everything around them. Should the opponent start to get up before the practitioner breaks their Zanshin, they are considered to have not been "finished", and the practitioner should respond as appropriate. This teaches you to avoid the "freeze" aspect, but due to distance, is geared around the "fight" responce.

Certain schools (such as Togakure Ryu) also teach "flight" as part of their classical teachings, and the Zanshin aspect is used here as well.

In our "street", or modern techniques, we not only remind students to keep moving after the technique, we get them to rehearse it. Again, this is to avoid the "freeze" aspect, and serves a very similar purpose to Zanshin in this regard. Of course, in things such as knife or group defence, we do include the classic tactic of "Run away!!!". However, we do include the Plan B in this as well, which is actually just "go back to Plan A".

If you are fleeing from a knifeman, for example distance is your saviour. And the adrenaline surge you will experience will help that no end, making you faster, stronger, and feel less pain. Unfortunately, however, the adrenaline surge your attacker has experienced will also help him be faster, stronger, and feel less pain. So there is the distinct possibility that they will catch up. So we teach our students (through drills) to be prepared for them to catch up, and before they do, the students should turn to face the attacker, and continue with another of the defences we have shown them, then escape again. Same goes for groups, do your technique and escape, but be ready to continue if they catch up.

 

[seasoned]

By the time we are faced with a dangerous situation, our training will take over. What we put into our mental computer will come out in dire times. In a fast moving confrontation, there is no time to think, and reactions will be automatic. Nothing beats conditioned reflexes, thinking is too slow.

 

[Joab]

There are a lot of good reasons to run if you can, but most importantly, it is often required by the law to flee if possible. Not fleeing when you can can get you in a lot of trouble with criminal and civil charges that go on and on. If you do flee and run out of breath or the attacker catches up to you and than defend yourself, it will look better in court. I'm not a lawyer, but that is my interpretation of various self defense laws I have read.

 

[girlbug2]

Running is what I'd do if I'm aware of the situation enough to avoid being cornered in the first place, and assuming I am not with somebody who can't run with me. Of course, that leaves plenty of room for scenarios that don't fit the running option, because that's how it is in life. Thus, I train.

 

[seasoned]

There are a lot of good reasons to run if you can, but most importantly, it is often required by the law to flee if possible. Not fleeing when you can can get you in a lot of trouble with criminal and civil charges that go on and on. If you do flee and run out of breath or the attacker catches up to you and than defend yourself, it will look better in court. I'm not a lawyer, but that is my interpretation of various self defense laws I have read.

Fleeing can take many forms. physically or mentally. Physically by running, if you are able, mentally by taking the submissive roll, in the situation. A submissive roll can sometimes either embolden or discourage an attack. If it discourages an attack, mark it up as a good day, and no one gets hurt. If it encourages the attack, and you have done and said everything in your power to defuse it, do what you can do to defend yourself. You will hopefully have your day in court.

 

[harlan]

Survive. That is the first imperative.

Escape usually being the best option, and done with the least amount of effort or sacrifice. Run if you can, but expect to have to fight to get the opportunity to do so.

In reality, I've found that in my normal run-of-the-mill life, as an average female, that running has rarely been an option. Only a few times while younger, and in an open space. But being either pregnant, or accompanied by younger siblings/children, aging with bad knees, or simply trapped in a bad situation, running wasn't an option.

 

[theletch1]

Fleeing can take many forms. physically or mentally. Physically by running, if you are able, mentally by taking the submissive roll, in the situation. A submissive roll can sometimes either embolden or discourage an attack. If it discourages an attack, mark it up as a good day, and no one gets hurt. If it encourages the attack, and you have done and said everything in your power to defuse it, do what you can do to defend yourself. You will hopefully have your day in court.

Agreed. The mindset of the I'll just run crowd too often is that they aren't taking into account that many times there's no where to run. Again, it's a one dimensional approach to a multi-dimensional problem. We are, for the most part, preaching to the choir as it were with this discussion. Anyone have any good, solid points to hand to the group in question to dissuade them from the idea that no other art than nike-do is needed for self defense?

 

[Draven]

I'll just run.

I'll just kick him in the nuts and run.

There is no defense for that, so I'll just run.

So, this brings up the question....why do people put so much faith into running? Seems to me that running is the typical answer that everyone says, but always fails to mention plan b. It also tells me that some people that advocate this so much, may not have the skills to deal with the situation they're facing, so thats the best they can do....I'll just run.

Well running is an excuse used by a lot of people to cover what they don't train for, I hear it the most from MMA guys & arm chair martial artists. Thing is sure you can run and many times running is what "they" want to happen. When I was 15 me and some friends where at a concert and three guys started walking toward us in a "threatening manner" so we changed direction found four more guys and we went a third direction and got pinned in an alley with 7 guys on one end and 4 on the other end.

I gave them my shoes & my wallet, looking back on it if we were smart we'd have moved toward the first three if it became a fight there where wittnesses may be the police would have been called in. Instead we let them herd us into an alley away from wittnesses and help.

Actually, you have three options... fight, flight... or freeze. Grasping to the idea that one could just kick to the groin and run as a complete self defense style in and of itself will quite often result in the "freeze" instead of the fight or flight. Training in other forms of self defense can at the very least engrain some reaction into your brain that will eliminate the freeze aspect of self defense.

Actually my psychology text book says nothing of freezing, it list fight or flight but also submission & posturing. I guess freezing could be considered an involuntary form of submission & I know that there is a debate by some psychologist & sociologists to have freeze added making it five.

Also many times training is what causes the freeze effect according to many RBSD instructors. I had seen a video where a black belt in Shotokan I think it was, was told not to defend himself until he was physically touched. The uke dressed as a street punk got in the Karateka's face and began yelling obsentities and threats and the karateka froze when punched in the face.

So I have a question(s);
Have they updated the interactions to interspecies conflict or is this a personally/institutionally/organizationally accepted principle?
Why assume its lack of training & not lack of experience?

What I mean is this I had plenty of training, I had a wealth of training & when it came time to pull a trigger in Iraq I hesitated my first time. My training prepared me but I lacked experiences that meant my training was going to be effective. So my little voice of doubt became a block that caused me to hesitate, I snapped out of it real quick after the first shot.

Agreed. The mindset of the I'll just run crowd too often is that they aren't taking into account that many times there's no where to run. Again, it's a one dimensional approach to a multi-dimensional problem. We are, for the most part, preaching to the choir as it were with this discussion. Anyone have any good, solid points to hand to the group in question to dissuade them from the idea that no other art than nike-do is needed for self defense?

Sure ask the question, ever been literally shot/stabbed in the back? How fast are you compared from some skinny street kid who makes it a career from running from the police? By the way, thats whats chasing down the alley to his friends?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Monty Python said it best

King Arthur: Run away!

Sir Robin: Would it help to confuse it if we run away more?

The Black Knight: Oh, oh, I see! Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!


I could no longer resist, sorry.