I think I may need to find a new place to train

bluekey88

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I'm stunned at the moment. There is a situation going on between my wife, my teacher and myself that may force me to leave the school.

I teach 3 classes a week and assist with the competition team. On weekends, i help clean the dojang. My wife goes in twice a week to help dp filing and basic office work. We've been doiung these things for over 5 years. For most of that, we got a slight break on tuition. Last year, my instructor sauid becuase of all the hard work we do (for the dojang as well as in other areas) that we were now on scholarship. Myself and my family could train for free.

At first, this was great, however, I think it created a number of dual relationships. We're students, we have employee responsibilities but we're not really employees (no contract, nothign in writing, no delineation of who deos what for whom).

The problem is that my wife has a very hectic schedule. We've bgot 5 kid (3 of whom have significant special needs). This means that she has to attend various meetings, do extra doctor appointments, deal with behaviors, school functions, etc. She tries to tell the instructor what her schedyule is like ahead of time, but he doesn't remember when she tells him verbally, and an email at the beginning of the month laying out her availability is not acceptabel either. She is supposed to text or email that morning if she can't make it (in addition to the verbal and email notification). She can't always do that...she tries, but sometimes she just can't.

Anyway, last week she was unable to come in becuase an important meeting was rescheudled. She let hinm know verbally, but did not get a chance to do a day of email. He called her 5 times while she was in that meeting, and left her some very angry and rude voicemails. Today, after she'd already notified him that she was unavailable during the day (kids are off school) resulted in a very angry email. My wife decuided to stand up for herself....this is now a bad blood situation.

As they are trying to work out the miscimmunications and the like, one of the things our instructor said was a long rant about how much money he's "donated" to us because of this scholarship and how we perhaps weren't grateful enough. he suggested that if my wife could not do the office work thing that the scholarship would be revoked.

here's my dillemma, I happen to agree with my wife's position (she should never be yelled at. Period.) I never asked fore the scholarship, though it is greatly appreciated. However, if the scholarhsip is based on her work...what is my teaching and coaching worth? More to the point, I thought it wasa gift, not something that was dependant on what we were already doing. I taught because I enjoy teaching. I coach becasue I enjoy coaching. I cleaned becasue I live down the street and it was convenient for me to help out.

In any event, I'm giving back the scholarship because I don't want anyone thinking that i'm mooching or taking advantage. However, I'm afraid that eprhaps thigns have gone to the point where trainign at this school won't be feasible. At the very least, I may need do something to better define what my role is at this school (my wife will probably not conitnue helpign out in the office....unless or instructor can chnage his tone...all the other communication and scheduling crap is not the real issue).

This makes me sad. I don't want to train someplace where I'm not liked. if I dial back all that I do, that'll be a further rift. I don't mind starting out as a whitebelt again....it's jsut that this school is like home to me. BUT, part of respecting me is respectiong my famiyl and waht we do.

Not looking for any particular advice yet, just had to vent. Manure Occureth.

Peace,
Erik
 

wushuguy

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that's a real tough spot. no one should pressure others to work for "free tuition gift"

Hope you can calm yourself and talk it over with the involved parties so you can reach a good situation. From the sound of it, I am sure you will get things going right.
 
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bluekey88

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Right now it's all up to what my wife works out with our instructor. We shall see. I'll probably know by tonight when I go in to teach where things stand.
 

KELLYG

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Somebody needs a gratitude lesson<not you or your wife>. Sounds like you both are spending like 15 to 20 hours there a month each. 20 hours x the current federal minimum wage of 7.25 per hours should average about $145.00 a month each. This should more than cover the monthly dues. Sounds like you guys are there regularly, dependable, honest, hard working, these things are worth more than money. No one should behave disrespecfully to your wife. I think that a frank discussion is necessary but I would make sure the air is clear before I made any decision If there is no way for a satisfactory resolution then find somewhere else to train. Good luck and I hope it turns out well.
 

Jenny_in_Chico

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Wow! That is a really sticky situation, but I think that it was inevitable given the undefined nature of the agreement. Live and learn, though. You may ask yourself if this is typically how your sensei behaves. Is the anger something new, that could be a reaction to a stress in his life that you are unaware of? He may not realize that his behavior is over the top. I remember the semester my mom was diagnosed with cancer, I received only mediocre student evaluations, when normally I receive excellent evaluations. The students complained that I was not receptive to questions, and seemed distracted and dismissive. I was horrifed, because I honestly did not know that my own personal fear and grief were inpacting how I related to my students.

However, I think that it is wonderful that your wife stood up for herself, and that you feel protective of her and angry on her behalf, but allow her to work the situation out for herself. I find this to be an example of how a marriage should be. :)
 

ATC

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Sorry to hear what you are going through. Hope it all works out. Sometimes people tend to be hardest on the ones closest. So maybe it is not as bad as it seems. Hope it is is just a family squable and all works out well.
 

Phoenix44

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Sounds like you both are spending like 15 to 20 hours there a month each. 20 hours x the current federal minimum wage of 7.25 per hours should average about $145.00 a month each. This should more than cover the monthly dues.

This is exactly what I was thinking. My partner had the same situation at our former dojo. He was teaching in exchange for classes, and always felt "obligated," as if the owner was doing him a favor. So he was constantly putting in extra hours, covering for people who were on vacation, doing favors, etc, and it became a big burden. But when we figured it out, it was obvious that the hours he was working more than made up for the monthly tuiton.

And that's something you should consider, maybe telling sensei you'd rather pay and be paid, instead of teaching in exchange for lessons. That still doesn't solve the problem of your wife's availability, but that becomes a moot point if she resigns, and you pay for lessons and get paid for teaching. It may cost you a couple of bucks, but it would get rid of a big headache.

Unless you're so soured on the dojo that you have to leave.
 

mook jong man

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Ask this wanker what did his last slaves die of ?
Then tell him to shove his scholarship up his kyber.
Don't let anyone talk to your missus like that. :angry:
 

jks9199

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This is the problem with the way a lot of martial arts schools are run. They're a commercial business, built on donated time and effort of students, who are often paying for the privilege of training and working there. And the owner comes to rely on them to do this...

The model is loosely based on the traditional arrangement of a martial arts club which wasn't a true business... But it doesn't fly in a real business arrangement.

Think about it; how many people would tolerate a boss who can't keep schedules straight, despite being told both verbally and in writing? A boss who yells at them? Who apparently has no appreciation for several years of work done without compensation... (And that's not even considering tax and other legal implications on either side of the equation...)

No matter what happens between your wife and the school owner, you both need to sit down with him and define the relationship. Otherwise, this will be a problem again.
 

geezer

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I'm stunned at the moment. There is a situation going on between my wife, my teacher and myself that may force me to leave the school.

Man, things could be so much worse. Re-read your opening sentence a couple of times and you will see what I mean!

As it is, just sit down with your instructor at a quiet time and work things out. If he's not a total wanker, as Mook suggested, he'll understand. He may just be stressed out. Maybe you're right and the best thing considering your wife's busy schedule is to forget about the scholarship and just be regular students for a while. Good luck.
 

Kittan Bachika

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This is the problem with the way a lot of martial arts schools are run. They're a commercial business, built on donated time and effort of students, who are often paying for the privilege of training and working there. And the owner comes to rely on them to do this...

The model is loosely based on the traditional arrangement of a martial arts club which wasn't a true business... But it doesn't fly in a real business arrangement.

Think about it; how many people would tolerate a boss who can't keep schedules straight, despite being told both verbally and in writing? A boss who yells at them? Who apparently has no appreciation for several years of work done without compensation... (And that's not even considering tax and other legal implications on either side of the equation...)

No matter what happens between your wife and the school owner, you both need to sit down with him and define the relationship. Otherwise, this will be a problem again.

I could not agree with you more. Don't get me wrong, those traditional arrangements are pretty cool since they involve people who have a true love for the art. But it is not the proper model for a well run commercial school.

In a business people need to know where they stand because mixed signals just bring a ton of confusion.
 

jks9199

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I could not agree with you more. Don't get me wrong, those traditional arrangements are pretty cool since they involve people who have a true love for the art. But it is not the proper model for a well run commercial school.

In a business people need to know where they stand because mixed signals just bring a ton of confusion.
If the school is run as a commercial entity -- it should run as a business. If it's being run as a society/association/club like a soccer league or some community pools -- there's no problem with volunteers or members playing unpaid/uncompensated roles. That's, as I understand it, kind of how many traditional dojos in Japan are run, for example. Various members of the dojo contribute their skills and abilities to keep it open, and everyone helps clean it. (It's normal around this time of year for the dojo to close training and clean for a day or two... or so I've read.)

But, again, if the instructor is running a business, and making his living from the school, and benefiting from the free labor of advanced students serving as instructors, or other students doing the books, etc... He's setting himself up for problems.

As a side-note, the whole "instructor training" thing is what's given several states an in for regulating yoga schools; I figure it's only a matter of time before they notice that many MA schools do the same thing.
 

Kittan Bachika

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If the school is run as a commercial entity -- it should run as a business. If it's being run as a society/association/club like a soccer league or some community pools -- there's no problem with volunteers or members playing unpaid/uncompensated roles. That's, as I understand it, kind of how many traditional dojos in Japan are run, for example. Various members of the dojo contribute their skills and abilities to keep it open, and everyone helps clean it. (It's normal around this time of year for the dojo to close training and clean for a day or two... or so I've read.)

But, again, if the instructor is running a business, and making his living from the school, and benefiting from the free labor of advanced students serving as instructors, or other students doing the books, etc... He's setting himself up for problems.

As a side-note, the whole "instructor training" thing is what's given several states an in for regulating yoga schools; I figure it's only a matter of time before they notice that many MA schools do the same thing.

Is this what you mean by "instructor training" I have heard of students who reach black belt rank and are told they need to teach classes in order to advance further. It is great in theory, however as you pointed out it falls into the "freelabor category" and I know at least one person who felt they were being taken advantage of. I think it is important for students to lead a class but I think it gets out of hand when all of the classes are taught by students who are paying for the privilege.
 

Hudson69

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Illegitimi non carborundum = Dont let this person get to you. I took a look at your public profile; you are a 1st Dan in your primary art; take a break, find a new school. You were once involved with the Bujinkan maybe you could find another X-kan school.

I haven't run into this situation before but I would try and find something else and slowly fade out to make as little (if any) bad blood be left behind.

Personal opinion is I would no longer feel comfortable training there.
 

shesulsa

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You said you weren't looking for advice yet, so I'll offer you none. I can tell you these situations are often bad and there's really no guarantee of how things are going to turn out.

I don't think I'd be too happy given the circumstances you've described, and I'd expect to be dismissed permanently, as it were.

Perhaps, just to keep your sanity, go take a look at other places, casually.

Keep us posted.
 

just2kicku

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Wow, I hope this can be resolved for you. It sounds like he's taking you for granted and expecting these things from you and your wife, while holding this scholarship over your head. I'm glad your wife stood up for herself, and that you stand by her. maybe it is time to look elsewhere. Training in a hostile environment is not condusive to anyones training.
Good luck my friend!
 
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bluekey88

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Thank you all for your replies. Just to clarify a few points, my instructor is not a bad guy...perhpas in my frustration I might have given the wrong impression....he's a decent guy, but he's human and he's got some character flaws. That being said, he runs a decent school and i've got a lot (read most0 of my friends there. My kids train there and love it...walking away is noty something I would do lightly....but it is something I would do.

I agree that the casual nature of how the instructor runs certain aspects of his business (no employees, but essentuially engaging in barter type compensation for people of do a lot of teaching or other things) is nice, but it can be problematic for oth the instructor and those of us involved.

So, here's what i figure happened (I'll let you know where we're at in a second). My isntructor likes to do good works...he really likes to help people out. Lots of donations of cash to various charities, finding ways to work deals with families havuing a hard time finding money to train...he'll even send out resumes of people who've lost jobs to the rest of the dojang in hopes of hooking people up. Most of the time, this works out, but sometimes, he gets screwed. He's talked about it. he also is a guy who is all about the respect (as am I), and I know it really hurts him when someone takes advantage of his kindness and doesn't respect him. Over the past few years due to some pretty nasty situZAtions, I think he's become hypersensitive to this.

Another things with him is he has to have things his way...a little bit OCD. great in an instructor who needs yuou to do stuff just so...but not so good in situations where other input or change is necessary. Also, it's his school, he's the guy in charge. Typically what happens is someone notices an issue, presents a solutuion to him. He declines it, then later does it anyway because he had this great idea. :) Like I said, a nice guy, but not perfect.

My wife had attempted to address someof the communication issues and scheduling issues, but he always shot down her ideas...since he has a hard time remembeing her schedule, it appeared to him she was blowing him off. whatever is going on with him (we'll jsut say holiday stress), led to a blow up....thus the innaporpriate voicemail. Whe my wife didn;t immediately call him on it...a second scheduling issue led to angrty emails. His "people are taking advantage of me" thing was triggered. However, my wife stodd up for ferself (I;m so very proud of her...it was not an easy thing for her to do...she hartes confrotnation,...and she knows how much my kids and I love training).

This surprised my isntructor and he immediately wnet into fight mode. he tried a power play with the scholarship and my willingness to give it up sent the appropriate message (i.e. I'm not in it for the money or free training...if this is such an issue...keep it).

The upshot is that he has found a new person to do his filing and office work (this is good...my wife could really use that time elsewhere and doesn't need to put up with the drama). I'm still ok to train as are my kids. We got a sort of apology last night (he understands that our 5 kids are more important than his 200 students to us and that our schedules are crazy and are priorities are clear). He doesn't want hard felings and he doesn't think we're trying to take advantage. He's totally reframed the situation. I there w2as an outright apology, but this is not about me being right...it's about resolving a situation (better to let him save some face).

So, for the time being I'm still going to train there. As has been suggested, I've sent out feelers to some other schools. I know now that i can walk away for there. My wife has gotten free of the situation wich is good. Time will tell if this is truly water under the bridge. If not, maybe I'll take up kenpo. Who knows.

Bottom line, I can cotinue training, my kids are happy 9they don't undestand the complicated nature of this situation). My wife has less drama in her life. I've got time to figure out what if anything further needs to happen. If the scholarship goes bye bye, so be it...I like to teach because I enjoy teaching, not because it might cut a break on tuition.

Mahybe I need to sabe some money and start my own school. that would be interesting.

Peace,
Erik
 

terryl965

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Eric no advise because you do not want any but I will pray that everything will workout for you all.
 

Ken Morgan

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The more "time" that gets between the situation and the future the better. In several months once a new routine is establshed for all, hopefully much of this crap show just vanish from the radar. Given the situation, I think you got the best possible solution for you and your family.
 

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