Hypothetical Question

[ToShinDoKa]

I have a hypothetical question, that since the beginning of man, seems to never have been the case...nonetheless, I still wonder:

If there was absolutely NO violence in the world, could the ninja still exist?

I suppose I'll couple such a question with another, by asking:

What would be his/her purpose in the world?

 

[theletch1]

I don't think the ninja would exist at all. The techniques of the ninja were created out of neccesity. That neccesity was to defend against violence. No violence = no defence = no ninja. Check out this thread in the aikido forum that runs along the same lines.

 

[tshadowchaser]

with no violence there would be no need for the martial aspects of a ninja however perhaps some of the aspects might still be used

 

[ToShinDoKa]

Hmmm,

That's what I thought. I'm sure its principles could be applied in other mundane task, though? <---That was a question, as badly phrased as it may be.

Oh, and thanks for the reference.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

 

[MA-Caver]

Please remember the origins of the (true) ninjas or those who studied the art of ninjutsu...(in secrecy because it was illegal otherwise according to Feudal Japan's laws) the farmers and peasants who had to have a means to defend themselves against oppressive Samurai that occasionally abused their authority by being members (and ironically servants) of the ruling class.
But as you say... and as recent posts have suggested. If there were NO violence in the world then what would be the need for defense? There would be no martial arts, there would be no police force as even robberies would be obsolete because that is a form of violence in of itself. No armies would be needed either, because moving in and taking over another's land (country) is a form of robbery (forceful stealing) as well.

But since we each KNOW the inherent violence that lives in ALL men/women there will always be a need for the aforementioned defenses. It's sad but true. It's ingrained in our genes to be violent to one another. We are emotional creatures and our emotional range spans the entire spectrum of whatever can be classified as an emotion.
But it is our MINDS (and hearts) that can quell the violence or channel it to something else. Each of us has the capacity of violence and each of us has the CHOICE not to use violence.
Example: You can learn all the martial arts you want, have a full armory in your house, and still come face to face with a man holding a (loaded) gun standing in your living room in the dead of night and NOT do anything or defend your life/family/home to the death by any means at your disposal.
That is a choice. Why you make it is up to you.

 

[Sukerkin]

Not to invalidate the core reasoning of Caver's excellent post above but the apocryphal Ninja did not exist, or at least not in the mythological form handed down to us via Japanese fiction and Hollywood amplification of that fiction.

So, my point of view on the OP is that since the object of the question never existed in the first place, the original question needs to morph slightly to a more generic:

"If there were no violent impulses in the world, would the martial arts still exist?"

The answer is rather obvious, I feel.

Perhaps the question needs to be of a form that either explores if the study of martial arts makes people less likely to be violent (my answer being in the positive there) or why it is that our impulse to violence still exists so strongly when we have so much reason to call on.

Plus, there is the old chestnut of how it is we, as a species, survived in the first place given our complete lack of effective natural weaponry.

That's a big question with large ramifications in my book .

 

[aplonis]

Martial -adjective, inclined or disposed to war; warlike.

Ninja –noun, a member of a feudal Japanese society of mercenary agents, highly trained in martial arts and stealth (ninjutsu), who were hired for covert purposes ranging from espionage to sabotage and assassination.

Interpreted any way you like, the original question answers itself. In a word, "No".

 

[heretic888]

Please remember the origins of the (true) ninjas or those who studied the art of ninjutsu...(in secrecy because it was illegal otherwise according to Feudal Japan's laws) the farmers and peasants who had to have a means to defend themselves against oppressive Samurai that occasionally abused their authority by being members (and ironically servants) of the ruling class.

With all due respect, almost none of that is historically factual.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

With all due respect, almost none of that is historically factual.

About time, man...:whip1:

 

[heretic888]

About time, man...:whip1:

Well, I'm more of a lurker nowadays.

 

[Danny T]

Interesting concept.
If there were no violence in the world "we" would not exist.

 

[Shizen Shigoku]

'No violence' doesn't just mean no person-on-person attacks, it would mean no danger whatsoever.

Even if all mankind, and all of biology were completely peaceful - no need to kill in order to eat, etc. There would still be danger in the world: A tree branch or rock falling on your head, waves/floods, volcanos, falling in a hole . . .

There would still be things that living creatures would have to defend themselves against even if there were no intentional violence commited by one organism against another.

Therefore, it would still be prudent for intelligent lifeforms to develop ways of protecting themselves. Ninjutsu could still be used as a means to that end.

The 'turning a sword attack against the attacker' techniques might be more limited, but I could still conceive of an art practiced by people using ninjutsu concepts to protect themselves against other harmful things the universe might throw at them..

 

[Doc_Jude]

Of course Ninja would exist, as they always have.

They would simply be WAITING...

 

[theletch1]

'No violence' doesn't just mean no person-on-person attacks, it would mean no danger whatsoever.

Even if all mankind, and all of biology were completely peaceful - no need to kill in order to eat, etc. There would still be danger in the world: A tree branch or rock falling on your head, waves/floods, volcanos, falling in a hole . . .

There would still be things that living creatures would have to defend themselves against even if there were no intentional violence commited by one organism against another.

Therefore, it would still be prudent for intelligent lifeforms to develop ways of protecting themselves. Ninjutsu could still be used as a means to that end.

The 'turning a sword attack against the attacker' techniques might be more limited, but I could still conceive of an art practiced by people using ninjutsu concepts to protect themselves against other harmful things the universe might throw at them..

Were there absolutely no violence at all, such as in the scenario that you've put forth, I don't believe that we, as humans, would exist in the form that we are now. Without the stressors of kill or be killed there would be no need to evolve from a more primitive life form into one more skilled. It is the threat of violent death that has made us what we are as an overall species and the martial arts (stress on martial) owe their very existence to that threat.