Humilities role, if any, in training for self defense?

Brian King

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In the fundamental pillars of self-defense thread, a brief interesting discussion of humility evolved but like many a long and intense conversations, the topic wandered and then disappeared. It seemed like an interesting topic perhaps worth further discussion and exploration. What is your opinion of the two following questions.

Is there a role for humility in training for self-defense?
If so what is it?

@Jenna, @drop bear, @elder999

Some of the quotes from the pillars thread, I think I missed some of them. Sorry.

Is the mind of humility relevant at all? I mean acceptance of limitation that the limitation might be overcome? what do you think? Jx

Humility might be just what some need to get through the aftermath.....it really has next to no place at all in the encounter itself.

Yes Sir agreed and understood.

I see people -MA people- unwilling to admit the short comings of their art or of their selves in the practice of that art for whatever reason.. I worry for those people. So right now before any encounter happens from the safety of our places and as a pillar of defence would you say humility in this way is at all useful?? I mean so our limitations might be conceded in order to be surmounted?

Jx

Yes.

I know a few street fighters. And if you engage in enough violence eventually you are going to get bashed.

The better street fighters I have met are philosophical about it.

I think it frees your mind from doubt a bit and allows you to act a bit more.
 

elder999

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In the fundamental pillars of self-defense thread, a brief interesting discussion of humility evolved but like many a long and intense conversations, the topic wandered and then disappeared. It seemed like an interesting topic perhaps worth further discussion and exploration. What is your opinion of the two following questions.

Is there a role for humility in training for self-defense?
If so what is it?

@Jenna, @drop bear, @elder999

Some of the quotes from the pillars thread, I think I missed some of them. Sorry.

Later, I did say that there was a role for humility in the situation: that verbal de-escalation, and leaving the assailant a face-saving way out required some humility, and also that as I near 55 (just weeks away!) I have to recognize that I'm physically not quite the (as someone else put it back in the day) "absolute monster" that I once was, and adjust accordingly. Those are, at least, two places where humility has a place in training for self defense-in fact, I was in my early 30's (35...ish?) and surprised a woman I was dating by saying, Yeah, I'd coward out of a fight, if it meant everyone involved got to wake up at home in the morning, relatively unscathed.

It's been my experience that wounded pride heals much, much faster than lacerations, or even skinned knuckles.....
 
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Brian King

Brian King

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Thanks Elder. I tried to find that post before starting this thread, but missed it and could not locate it. Thanks for adding it to this thread.
 

Dirty Dog

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True humility is inedlible, son........

Tastes like chicken?

If you consider avoid conflict "humility", then that is the role it has in training.
Other than that, I don't really think it does.
I'll do my damnedest to avoid trouble. But if there IS trouble, the only thing that really matters to me is making sure that the good guys don't get hurt.
 

Tez3

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I would say 'humility' had no place in a confrontation but using common sense and having no ego would be better. Not letting your ego get the better of you and looking for ways out, all ways out including talking and running for it are better than any sense that you should be humble or feel you are lower than anyone else. Calm thinking which can be difficult is a good thing to cultivate if you can, along with sensible training which you can actually do.
Whether training for self defence, competition or fitness there's no room for egos nor humility. The ability to take a cold hard look at yourself and your training is very useful, if you are good at something then you should capitalise on that, if you are poor at something either change it or work until you are good at it.
Of course it depends on what you think 'humility' is.
 

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I agree Tez, it depends on what you think humility is. I've been taught that humility means not letting your ego get the better of you and not trying to put yourself up as better than everyone else. You've obviously been taught that it means something else.
I feel it is a vital part of de-escalating any encounter. I've been in quite a number of encounters that did not escalate into violence because I let the other fellow believe they were better than I was. As Elder said in his earlier post, wounded pride heals much quicker than wounded flesh, and I can always smirk at them to myself later. :)
 

Tez3

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I agree Tez, it depends on what you think humility is. I've been taught that humility means not letting your ego get the better of you and not trying to put yourself up as better than everyone else. You've obviously been taught that it means something else.
I feel it is a vital part of de-escalating any encounter. I've been in quite a number of encounters that did not escalate into violence because I let the other fellow believe they were better than I was. As Elder said in his earlier post, wounded pride heals much quicker than wounded flesh, and I can always smirk at them to myself later. :)


I haven't been 'taught' it means anything different but it does have a couple of meanings and many words change as they cross the Atlantic. Humility is most often used in religious discussions rather than martial arts, it rarely comes up outside religion.
I wouldn't say that 'humility' had anything to do with you letting the other fellow think they are better than you, that's the calm thinking and common sense part of what I was saying, (you could even call it craftiness), doing what you have to. I don't see that pride or ego should come into it if you are confident of your abilities. There would be no reason for wounded pride.
 

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I wouldn't say that 'humility' had anything to do with you letting the other fellow think they are better than you, that's the calm thinking and common sense part of what I was saying, (you could even call it craftiness), doing what you have to. I don't see that pride or ego should come into it if you are confident of your abilities. There would be no reason for wounded pride.

humility
noun hu·mil·i·ty \hyü-ˈmi-lə-tē, yü-\
: the quality or state of not thinking you are better than other people : the quality or state of being humble
a modest or low view of one's own importance; humbleness
 

Tez3

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One shouldn't have a low estimate of one's abilities, one should have a realistic view, unfortunately many think that having a realistic view is also being big headed. neither humility nor bigheadness have a place in self defence, taking a cold hard look at your skills and knowing what you can do is vital. Common sense tells you not to think you are better than anyone else.
 

elder999

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One shouldn't have a low estimate of one's abilities, one should have a realistic view, unfortunately many think that having a realistic view is also being big headed. neither humility nor bigheadness have a place in self defence, taking a cold hard look at your skills and knowing what you can do is vital. Common sense tells you not to think you are better than anyone else.
common-sense-superpower.jpg
 

Danny T

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It is not about what one things humility is. Humility the state of being humble has a specific definition.

Being humble doesn't mean having a low estimate of ability. It is being in the state of or displaying humility.
Just because one is humble or displays humility don't underestimate their abilities. Even in a self-defense situation one can and maybe should show a lower importance of yourself (always depends upon the situation) until the time is right to make the proper move.

This should be a common sense thing Tez but unfortunately many people it seems, leave their common sense at home.
 

Tez3

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You have to bear in mind though that the very act of looking humble can trigger attacks. Displaying 'humility' can make you look like an easy target so you have to find the middle ground where you don't look like a threat but also don't look like a pushover. Learning to cultivate a quiet confidence along with a fair amount of empathy has always worked for me when I've had to deal with fights and conflicts. I do believe though that men and women handle situations differently. An attitude of humbleness may not work for a woman and will most likely be taken for weakness or fear, which is often exactly what the attacker wants before he harms them.
I think everyone has to work out for themselves the best way of dealing with events. It was like my job, what works for me more than likely wouldn't have worked for a male officer and vice versa.
 

Danny T

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You have to bear in mind though that the very act of looking humble can trigger attacks. Displaying 'humility' can make you look like an easy target so you have to find the middle ground where you don't look like a threat but also don't look like a pushover. Learning to cultivate a quiet confidence along with a fair amount of empathy has always worked for me when I've had to deal with fights and conflicts. I do believe though that men and women handle situations differently. An attitude of humbleness may not work for a woman and will most likely be taken for weakness or fear, which is often exactly what the attacker wants before he harms them.
I think everyone has to work out for themselves the best way of dealing with events. It was like my job, what works for me more than likely wouldn't have worked for a male officer and vice versa.
I agree, it is always situational.
 

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I would say 'humility' had no place in a confrontation but using common sense and having no ego would be better. Not letting your ego get the better of you and looking for ways out, all ways out including talking and running for it are better than any sense that you should be humble or feel you are lower than anyone else. Calm thinking which can be difficult is a good thing to cultivate if you can, along with sensible training which you can actually do.
Whether training for self defence, competition or fitness there's no room for egos nor humility. The ability to take a cold hard look at yourself and your training is very useful, if you are good at something then you should capitalise on that, if you are poor at something either change it or work until you are good at it.
Of course it depends on what you think 'humility' is.

I disagree. Humility -- true humility, is important and very useful in every aspect of life. It's a highly undervalued and misunderstood quality, and one I constantly aspire to develop.

Humility isn't about thinking little of yourself. It's simply about having an empty cup and an open mind, and not letting anything threaten your ego - not by outwardly judging and dismissing it, but by taking it with a grain of salt, considering it earnestly, and not feeling that you have to protect your self image or prove yourself in anyway. You seek to accept and appreciate everything for what it is, and not worry about what relation it has to yourself.

The few individuals I've met who exhibit a truly humble attitude never come off as in-confident. Rather, they just come off as very squared-away, open-minded, personable, and even confident -- but as a result of "being at peace with / accepting things" kind of way, rather than a cocky kind of way.

That's a deeply important quality for training, as well as for being able to handle stressful situations productively or tactfully, I think. If you're worried about your own image, status, self-worth, or presume to know more than you do, or protect any of that by passing outward judgment as opposed to first examining yourself, you will not grow or meet with as productive results as if you had done otherwise.

All that said, I'm not there yet, personally -- I'm still more concerned with myself than I'd like to be. But, it's something I strive to change. And if nothing else, I try to remind myself never to assume that I "know better," as I sometimes have the habit of thinking.
 

Tez3

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Humility isn't about thinking little of yourself. It's simply about having an empty cup and an open mind, and not letting anything threaten your ego - not by outwardly judging and dismissing it, but by taking it with a grain of salt, considering it earnestly, and not feeling that you have to protect your self image or prove yourself in anyway. You seek to accept and appreciate everything for what it is, and not worry about what relation it has to yourself.

But one should be like that anyway. We should be like that as a matter of course, it's a part of being a well rounded human being.
 

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But one should be like that anyway. We should be like that as a matter of course, it's a part of being a well rounded human being.

I agree! But, isn't that being humble?

I guess I'm more concerned with what's underneath than what you necessarily show outwardly. Your point about not looking like an easy target, for example, is quite valid. But I don't think an outwardly confident appearance has any bearing on whether someone is humble or not. It's just a bit of a misnomer(?) that people tend to equate confidence with ego, ego with ability, and humility with lack either confidence or ability.
 

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