How does your Sifu feel about cross-training?

[geezer]

My original Sifu (actually my only WT Sifu, even though I haven't trained with him in many, many years) really frowned on cross training. He felt strongly that if you really devoted yourself to Wing Tsun you would discover that it was a "complete" art. But to reach a very high level, it should be your only art. Studying other arts would only lead to distraction and bad habits. I disagreed. The end result of my independent nature is that I now train with other independent kung fu brothers. My Sifu is now beyond my reach. Oh well.

Anyway, is this typical of high level Chinese Sifus? I know Kamon has a far more open-minded sifu. How about the rest of you?

 

[bully]

Back in the day with my old Sifu, he said "if you want to go and play at Karate then thats up to you".

I understood what he meant as he was referring to the sport type nature of most modern Karates, competition wise.

His comment made me think he wasnt keen on us cross training.

Today?

My Sifu would actively encourage me to do other arts if i want too....physically i couldnt do them though. Which is why i do WC.

 

[matsu]

my sifu actually trains us with other styles incorporated.
he will show us a WC technique, then another style version or two ,even if it is to justify why he feels our way is better/more effecient or whatever.

i,m sure he has adapted wing chun to suit the european height, weight differences and stances.
for example...he is always telling us that no street fight will never come from a straight punch,but that it probably would in china,thats our heritage and theirs, we adopt a natural boxing stance and swing . they might not.
our kicks are like footy kicks, theirs might be a trad MA style kick. its what we have seen all our lives and think is natural.

and a lot of our sifus cross train to enable them to teach us all aspects of self defense but from a wing chun prespective.

matsu

 

[bostonbomber]

My sifu and sigung have mastered several styles and they encourage exploration once you have a strong foundation in your primary art. Each style has its own set of principles (e.g., my style, Hung Gar has the 12 bridge hands). Sometimes the principles of one style contradict the primary principles of another (compare Bak Mei with Tai Chi - both can be very effective as long as one applies them as they were intended to be applied). The problem with picking here and there from various styles, without fully grasping how to apply the principles of each, your kung fu becomes what the old timers called "chop suey".

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

The only Wing Chun sifu that I trained under definitely was old school and all Wing Chun. He did not believe in cross training. Obviously while I enjoyed some time training with him it was clear pretty early on that I would be exploring other possibilities.

 

[brocklee]

I think if you're going to pick another style to aid or supplement your WC, youre are taking yourself from a chunner status to a MMA fighter status. If you truly stick to your WC and decide that you like the aspects of another style and just want to train to see what it's like or to get another view point but keep the two separated....that's perfectly fine.

I'm not going to discuss my sifu's view point because I represent my kwoon and don't want to be responsible for giving invalid information. He DOES state that it is a complete tool but lets us know that yoga and other things in life aide our performance.

If I were to mix another art with WC it would have to be close range tactical combat with small side arms. That way I would win every time. You wanna go into the clinch or take it to the ground, that's fine...Ill shoot you

That right there is very WC fundamental as it's the most efficient way to handle the situation and is VERY direct. lol

 

[kaizasosei]

i think that the more you learn the better fighter you can be. however, there is a slight twist because the moment of victory or defeat is so short if ever, that one martial art is actually enough to achieve adequate security and sometimes i can see that it can be more rewarding to master one art than to be mediocre at many.

also, sometimes, if one has too many arts not completely perfected, one might not choose the best technique(style) for the situation.
at some point though, the human being, the martial artist must devote himself to something.

devotion is great, but the spiritual and technical content of the teachings is more important. i can be devoted to all martial arts if i can respect them equally enough.
having had so many masters, being loyal only to few, i have never really posed that question, so im not sure what they would say-

 

[mook jong man]

I actually got kicked out of the school after 10 years and i was an instructor for 5 of those years .

Back in 2001 i was training with some mates who were shootfighters , i would go to their gym and i would teach them chi sao and they would teach me groundfighting , it was a mutual exchange of knowledge .

I started to enjoy the ground fighting so much that i would teach a couple of techniques to my Wing Chun students , nothing much just a couple of mount escapes , chokes etc just so they could have a bit of a clue what to do if it went to the deck.

I was aware that some one had been sent to spy on me when i was teaching and this little spy was a very junior si hing who was going back to the hierarchy and saying some very uncomplimentary things about me.

Anyway under the guise of chi sao sparring i pretty much beat the snot out of him , i didn't make him bleed i just let him know in no uncertain terms that i knew what he was up to.

It was a couple of days after that , i got a phone call from the academy saying that they wouldn't need me to teach any more , " I said fair enough " and just left it at that.

All i was trying to do was give my students the best chance in self defence by making sure they were well rounded in their abilities .

The ironic thing is , that these days in the very same academy they teach some ground fighting techniques , i reckon i was just ahead of my time .

 

[kaizasosei]

i just love how you put this!:

Anyway under the guise of chi sao sparring i pretty much beat the snot out of him , i didn't make him bleed i just let him know in no uncertain terms that i knew what he was up to.

lmao

 

[brocklee]

I actually got kicked out of the school after 10 years and i was an instructor for 5 of those years .

Back in 2001 i was training with some mates who were shootfighters , i would go to their gym and i would teach them chi sao and they would teach me groundfighting , it was a mutual exchange of knowledge .

I started to enjoy the ground fighting so much that i would teach a couple of techniques to my Wing Chun students , nothing much just a couple of mount escapes , chokes etc just so they could have a bit of a clue what to do if it went to the deck.

I was aware that some one had been sent to spy on me when i was teaching and this little spy was a very junior si hing who was going back to the hierarchy and saying some very uncomplimentary things about me.

Anyway under the guise of chi sao sparring i pretty much beat the snot out of him , i didn't make him bleed i just let him know in no uncertain terms that i knew what he was up to.

It was a couple of days after that , i got a phone call from the academy saying that they wouldn't need me to teach any more , " I said fair enough " and just left it at that.

All i was trying to do was give my students the best chance in self defence by making sure they were well rounded in their abilities .

The ironic thing is , that these days in the very same academy they teach some ground fighting techniques , i reckon i was just ahead of my time .

WhaaaAAAAaa? lol don't you wemenbah. You no suppose to teach da gwyloah!

 

[geezer]

I actually got kicked out of the school after 10 years and i was an instructor for 5 of those years .

Back in 2001 i was training with some mates who were shootfighters , i would go to their gym and i would teach them chi sao and they would teach me groundfighting , it was a mutual exchange of knowledge...

The ironic thing is , that these days in the very same academy they teach some ground fighting techniques , i reckon i was just ahead of my time .

That's exactly what I'm talkin' about. It sounds like your old organization lost an excellent instructor! ...another victim of an old-school mindset.

 

[mook jong man]

Thanks Geezer , if i may be so immodest i think i was a good instructor and i had a genuine love for teaching . But as with all big organisations politics seems to get in the way and the teaching of quality self defence seems to fall by the wayside .

I think back then they maybe saw groundfighting as a threat and thought that students might leave and go to learn groundfighting . But these days students are a bit more savvy and probably demand to learn some ground technique so the school has jumped on the band wagon in order to retain students and thus maintain revenue .

I still am a little bitter about the whole thing as you can tell , i sweated blood for that place and they cut me loose so easily. I don't blame my Sifu , although he had the final say , there was a small core of people who got in his ear and said some things about me .

But its all history now and it has enabled me to broaden my horizons by doing several other martial arts , which i probably wouldn't have been able to do because i was teaching so much for the other joint .

ps BROCK you are a funny dude , ironically most of the instructors under my Sifu, including me are gwailo's and a lot of the students were chinese.

So in effect you had a chinese art taught to Aussies by a chinese Sifu and then the Aussie instructors teaching the chinese art back to the chinese students , quite bizarre don't you think.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I think if you're going to pick another style to aid or supplement your WC, youre are taking yourself from a chunner status to a MMA fighter status. If you truly stick to your WC and decide that you like the aspects of another style and just want to train to see what it's like or to get another view point but keep the two separated....that's perfectly fine.

If I were to mix another art with WC it would have to be close range tactical combat with small side arms. That way I would win every time. You wanna go into the clinch or take it to the ground, that's fine...Ill shoot you

That right there is very WC fundamental as it's the most efficient way to handle the situation and is VERY direct. lol

Except in countries like the UK where side arms are illegal...
I can see your hatred for BJJ emerging here. Just to make you more angry, I had a William Cheung guy of 12 years come down to my kwoon during last week. He, like many, suggested that the use of BJJ was pointless. I showed him several techniques/scenarios using my students where other arts are essential. He laughed it off (very rudely) before challenging me to take him to the ground. So I kicked him where the sun doesn't shine and he dropped to the floor where I proceeded to sit on top of him until he conceeded that sometimes BJJ is a good idea.
If anyone wants his name please PM me. In hindsight it was bad behaviour on my part, but I can't stand people who insist on being rude when you are trying to show them something

 

[bully]

Kamon, i am sure i will get to meet you at some point in the next couple of years, i will buy you a beer for that. Wish i could have seen it.

You certainly opened his mind.

I wouldnt see it as bad behaviour on your part, i can't stand rude people either.

 

[brocklee]

Except in countries like the UK where side arms are illegal...
I can see your hatred for BJJ emerging here. Just to make you more angry, I had a William Cheung guy of 12 years come down to my kwoon during last week. He, like many, suggested that the use of BJJ was pointless. I showed him several techniques/scenarios using my students where other arts are essential. He laughed it off (very rudely) before challenging me to take him to the ground. So I kicked him where the sun doesn't shine and he dropped to the floor where I proceeded to sit on top of him until he conceeded that sometimes BJJ is a good idea.
If anyone wants his name please PM me. In hindsight it was bad behaviour on my part, but I can't stand people who insist on being rude when you are trying to show them something

I think BJJ is great and I really like the gracies and their part in the UFC.

 

[brocklee]

I can see your hatred for BJJ emerging here. Just to make you more angry

I'm not sure why....but ok

 

[geezer]

...I proceeded to sit on top of him ... I can't stand people who insist on being rude...

Hahaha! Supremely funny!

 

[KamonGuy2]

Yeah, we even had one of our own instructors leave Kamon due to his insistence that there was no need for BJJ

He has now come back, keen to take up BJJ and the Kamon clinchwork

I have no problem with people doing traditional arts. It is just when they claim that any traditional art is 'complete'

Wing chun is close as it comes to being complete as it can work mid-range and close-range. Its short range hitting power is great for the floor as well as the sensitvity aspect.

But what it lacks is confident positioning on the ground. You need to gt into a good position before you can deploy the strikes. Therefore, sometimes it is good to get knowledge from other sources to help make your martial arts better. We still keep wing chun and BJJ separate (ie we do not claim for one second that the BJJ stuff is part of our wing chun syllabus)

It is like buying a telescopic sight for your rifle. It makes what is already an effective weapon even better!!