Has MMA damaged your view on your martial art?

[Odin]

Like any young child I always had an interest with the martial Arts whether it was Bruce Lee performing one inch punches to the power ranger doing spinning back kicks, I always though wow I would love to be able to do that!I was in owe of the things that these practitioners could do and Hollywood seemed to endlessly feed this addiction I had.
The martial arts themselves held a Mystic aura about them that I found fascinating I was watching karate guys break bricks with hands and would think wow image if that guy hit someone or I'd see TkD fighters seem to endlessly break the laws of physics with their flying kicks and I was amazed!.......................until along came Rorion Gracie and his UFC and utterly destroyed every myth and appreciations I had about the Martial Arts, all of a sudden all the mystic spinning flying jumping attacks that I used to be certain would knockout any assailant out in an instant became clumsy and impractical,all the ''downward knife' karate chops to the neck didn't seem to have the desired effects that I read about in books infact they just looked silly,talk of points on the body that once stuck would effect internal organs didn't seem to be working like they should I failed to hear big john shout ''winning by exploding kidney from ear poke'' it just didn't happen......So now I reach the point of the post....I would like to know if any of you have experience the same thoughts about your martial art?Do you ever find yourself doubting your teacher or the techniques that are used?Do you now find your Art too one dimensional?what do you think Organisations like the UFC and Pride done for your Arts reputation?Should your style of martial art change in order to compete in MMA?...and why don't you think your art did not do too well in the first Mixed Martial Arts tournaments?

 

[Kreth]

Is there any particular reason that your entire post is bolded?

 

[Brother John]

NOPE.

That'd assume I hold some special place in my heart for MMA or for these types of "no holds bared" (yeah, right...) SPORTING events.
I don't.

They are fun to watch, and I've always thought that martial artists should broaden their scope to a greater extent...
but no.
the new MMA fad doesn't effect me. It's just the latest paradigm.
IF it makes people question their art and NOT take "Effectiveness" for granted, GREAT!!! Blind acceptance of our arts or our abilities is a liability.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

NOPE.

That'd assume I hold some special place in my heart for MMA or for these types of "no holds bared" (yeah, right...) SPORTING events.
I don't.

They are fun to watch, and I've always thought that martial artists should broaden their scope to a greater extent...
but no.
the new MMA fad doesn't effect me. It's just the latest paradigm.
IF it makes people question their art and NOT take "Effectiveness" for granted, GREAT!!! Blind acceptance of our arts or our abilities is a liability.

Your Brother
John

Nice post Brother John,

I enjoy watching MMA events and there is a lot to learn from them. However, it is a sporting event with rules and not indicative of a real life encounter. (that does not mean they cannot be very, very effective on the street) The MMA craze and Gracie Jiujitsu certainly helped to open the eyes of many practitioners that they needed to work on the ground game. However, MMA has not damaged my view on martial arts at all. If anything it just reinforce my desire to train and improve and be diversified!

Brian R. VanCise
www.isntinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[Makalakumu]

Yes. MMA has shaped the way I've viewed martial arts for a long time. As a former Judoka and Wrestler, I've always known that practicing techniques against resisting opponents was important, but the innovating mix of techniques that modern MMA practicioners use is instructive.

IMHO, MMA, as it is practiced today, is what Bruce Lee imagined that his Jeet Kune Do would evolve into. It is an art without the boundaries of style. And it is tailored for what works for a particular individual.

 

[Odin]

Is there any particular reason that your entire post is bolded?

no (sighs to self)

 

[Odin]

Nice post Brother John,

I enjoy watching MMA events and there is a lot to learn from them. However, it is a sporting event with rules and not indicative of a real life encounter. (that does not mean they cannot be very, very effective on the street) The MMA craze and Gracie Jiujitsu certainly helped to open the eyes of many practitioners that they needed to work on the ground game. However, MMA has not damaged my view on martial arts at all. If anything it just reinforce my desire to train and improve and be diversified!

Brian R. VanCise
www.isntinctiveresponsetraining.com

See I dont think thats true the first couple fo UFC's when under the Gracie family had very little rules,headbutting,throat strikes, all of which was legal no offence but saying 'my art wont win in compition because im not allowed to poke someone in the eye or kick them in the nuts'' doesnt say alot about your martial art...the rules in place in todays UFC are a result of the Atheltic Commisions attempts to make the sport more T.V friendly....after all whats the point in putting on a show thats can only be aired past watershed...you cut half your audience...and half your sponsors.

 

[Kensai]

Nah, I don't think it's destroyed it at all. The MA world is big enough for all. It's shown the benefit of cross training, good conditioning and testing your art. Doesn't mean that yours won't work when push comes to shove. I come from a TMA background, I don't feel threatened by MMA at all, I've had silly big willy fight arguments with some MMAists on youtube, but that's just me being tongue in cheek. Long may it continue.

 

[mrhnau]

Yes. MMA has shaped the way I've viewed martial arts for a long time. As a former Judoka and Wrestler, I've always known that practicing techniques against resisting opponents was important, but the innovating mix of techniques that modern MMA practicioners use is instructive.

IMHO, MMA, as it is practiced today, is what Bruce Lee imagined that his Jeet Kune Do would evolve into. It is an art without the boundaries of style. And it is tailored for what works for a particular individual.

The aspect of a resisting opponent is great. Adapting your style and no style boundry is great. In those points of view, I think MMA has been good. Its a great mixture of some of the good aspects of a variety of arts. I like that I think its a great showcase for finding out what works effectively in the ring.

The bad aspects are that people train for a specific set of rules. You don't train certain strikes or small joint manipulations that are against the rules. So in that sense, you are limiting what you take from various arts. You typically have gloves, limited/special clothing. I don't have a problem with these sets of rules, since they are typically for the safety of the fighters. You might not train in you "gear", so I guess you have that aspect of reality...

You also don't train for multiple opponents or for the possibility of weapons. I think that would be great if I was confident that I'd only fight one unarmed person at a time. However, that might not be reality of the situation.

I think sticking two people in an octagon/ring presents one side of the "Fight or Flight" equation too... Alot of martial arts teach things that way. Thats fine. I personally think a successful encounter does neccessarily mean knocking out or submitting your opponent.

All this being said, I enjoy watching MMA. If I were interested in competition, I'd probably be getting involved. It makes good TV. I've always enjoyed going to see live boxing, and if MMA were here, I'd be going to see that too!

 

[Brother John]

no offence but saying 'my art wont win in compition because im not allowed to poke someone in the eye or kick them in the nuts'' doesnt say alot about your martial art...

I've read all through this (currently) short thread and I don't recall anyone saying that.
What I reject are the popular notions that MMA events represent 'realistic combat'.
Mind you, it's good stuff....and like Mr. VanCise said....they could definitely hold their own in a street encounter and opened up MANY eyes as to the need for skills on the ground...but it is NOT the end all be all test for what is "effective".

the rules in place in todays UFC are a result of the Atheltic Commisions attempts to make the sport more T.V friendly....after all whats the point in putting on a show thats can only be aired past watershed...you cut half your audience...and half your sponsors.

Actually I think it's as much for this reason as for the fact that certain places were starting to say "NOT in MY state!!!" and it was about to be an elicit event.
Just like you don't see Cock-Fights on ESPN. That's what the original intent, as I understand it, of the "UFC" was to be....a human cock-fight.

Fact remains: The massive majority of the UFC......and all of it's many clone events......are events very much under a set of rules.
But that doesn't detract from their entertainment value at all for me.

Your Brother
John

 

[Brother John]

Nah, I don't think it's destroyed it at all. The MA world is big enough for all. It's shown the benefit of cross training, good conditioning and testing your art. Doesn't mean that yours won't work when push comes to shove. I come from a TMA background, I don't feel threatened by MMA at all, I've had silly big willy fight arguments with some MMAists on youtube, but that's just me being tongue in cheek. Long may it continue.

EXCELLENT post!!!!
Much agreed


Your Brother
John

 

[SFC JeffJ]

See I dont think thats true the first couple fo UFC's when under the Gracie family had very little rules,headbutting,throat strikes, all of which was legal no offence but saying 'my art wont win in compition because im not allowed to poke someone in the eye or kick them in the nuts'' doesnt say alot about your martial art...the rules in place in todays UFC are a result of the Atheltic Commisions attempts to make the sport more T.V friendly....after all whats the point in putting on a show thats can only be aired past watershed...you cut half your audience...and half your sponsors.

I can't speak for the second one, but in the first one, everyone who competed in it was conditioned to a specific set of rules. They were all combative athletes of some sort, save maybe for the Kenpo practitioner (who was just a waste). All of them, with the possible exception of Shamrock, tried to play the game they were used to playing.

Now I'm all for the MMA competitions. The quality of competitors has risen drastically sense then. I do wish they could go back to those old rules now. It would be interesting to see what the fights would look like with the higher caliber athletes playing by those rules.

Jeff

 

[Odin]

The bad aspects are that people train for a specific set of rules. You don't train certain strikes or small joint manipulations that are against the rules. So in that sense, you are limiting what you take from various arts. !

I totally agree with you on that...MMA in away has forgotton what it is and has now created an almost set of moves and techniques which moving in completely the wrong direction that it meant to go in.

 

[Odin]

I've read all through this (currently) short thread and I don't recall anyone saying that.
What I reject are the popular notions that MMA events represent 'realistic combat'.
Mind you, it's good stuff....and like Mr. VanCise said....they could definitely hold their own in a street encounter and opened up MANY eyes as to the need for skills on the ground...but it is NOT the end all be all test for what is "effective".


Actually I think it's as much for this reason as for the fact that certain places were starting to say "NOT in MY state!!!" and it was about to be an elicit event.
Just like you don't see Cock-Fights on ESPN. That's what the original intent, as I understand it, of the "UFC" was to be....a human cock-fight.

Fact remains: The massive majority of the UFC......and all of it's many clone events......are events very much under a set of rules.
But that doesn't detract from their entertainment value at all for me.

Your Brother
John

lol sorry bro what I meant by 'my art wont win in compition because im not allowed to poke someone in the eye or kick them in the nuts'' was simply that those two moves were banned from the octagon, same with small joints....surly there is no art based upon kicking the nuts and poking eyes?
So i dont think the Rules put that many styles in a handicap.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sorry but I am once again short on time and I apologize, but I have not read all the posts in this thread.

I would like to know if any of you have experience the same thoughts about your martial art?

No

Do you ever find yourself doubting your teacher or the techniques that are used?

Yes and no, but my doubts do not come from what you are talking about or any influence of MMA and I have gone over that multiple times on MT and will spare all form a rehash.

Do you now find your Art too one dimensional?

No

what do you think Organisations like the UFC and Pride done for your Arts reputation?

I don’t think about organization like UFC and Pride at all to be honest

Should your style of martial art change in order to compete in MMA?

Why? My style would compete in Sanshou.

why don't you think your art did not do too well in the first Mixed Martial Arts tournaments?

These last 2 questions are very old questions and I will answer them both the way I always do.

The mistake of many of those that watch or pursue MMA is that they believe MMA matters to all martial artists and it is the only game in town. Sorry, but it doesn’t and it isn’t. It is another type of martial art that is very good for what it wishes to accomplish, that is all.

If you train CMA and you want to compete, you go to Sanshou, if you train Karate or TDK you compete in the matches for those arts. Many martial artists simply do not care about MMA beyond watching it on TV or thinking of it as just another martial art.

 

[Brother John]

The mistake of many of those that watch or pursue MMA is that they believe MMA matters to all martial artists and it is the only game in town. Sorry, but it doesn’t and it isn’t. It is another type of martial art that is very good for what it wishes to accomplish, that is all.

If you train CMA and you want to compete, you go to Sanshou, if you train Karate or TDK you compete in the matches for those arts. Many martial artists simply do not care about MMA beyond watching it on TV or thinking of it as just another martial art.

That's a Very good point, and one that a great many people in MMA and those who ARE affected the way Odin is indicating...fail to see.

thanks

Your Brother
John

 

[Andrew Green]

I'd say it was definately a wake up call for a lot of people. Prior to the UFC "ground fighting" was what has become known as Fred Ettish Fetal fighting... Now, people have magically discovered that guard and mount work existed in there style all along.

As far as all the poje the ear to explode the liver nonsense goes, that was nonsense to just about everyone long before Royce started tapping people out.

Just the "fantasy warriors" that go for that, and I don't know many "traditional" styles that teach that, or rather taught that 20 years ago. It was a fad as well, but not one grounded in reality.

MMA may be a fad, it is certainly not the "only" way to go as it is designed for a specialized purpose, a one on one "duel", but it was grounded in reality. Folks actually beat each other up to find out what works. As oppose to reading some scrolls and KOing some people that believe they are going to get KOed, but being unable to duplicate it on "outsiders"

For that reason there is a lot to be learnt there, and if your goals are not one on one fights, put into context before taken as is.

IMO it was a neccessary step, and a unaviodable one. Too many people where doing complete nonsense as a result of over confidence in there "deadly abilities" and never testing anything. It was inevitable that someone was going to step up and say "put up or shut up"

 

[searcher]

I am with Brother John on this one. The only piece that I took/take away from MMA is that I went back and worked back over what my Father taught me as a child. Though it is crude in comparison, it has become a part of my workouts and what I teach. It has also made me work a little bit harder at taking out those who would wish to take me to the ground. I am comfortable on the ground, btu if I always went to the ground I feel it is a disservice to the striking arts that I love.

 

[IcemanSK]

I can remember watching UFC 1 w/ a bunch of friends from TKD & feeling a bit like Odin (Whoa, does my stuff work after all?) but also feeling like my eyes had been opened to other possibilities. Being a stand up fighter & seeing UFC 1 I saw for the 1st time a bigger view of self-defense.

15 years later, I have a different set of mixed feeling about it. The stakes seem too high for me (physically to the body) & the brutallity a bit too much. Are they talented MA-ists? Yes. But I'm not a big fan.

 

[Odin]

Sorry but I am once again short on time and I apologize, but I have not read all the posts in this thread.



No



Yes and no, but my doubts do not come from what you are talking about or any influence of MMA and I have gone over that multiple times on MT and will spare all form a rehash.



No



I don’t think about organization like UFC and Pride at all to be honest



Why? My style would compete in Sanshou.



These last 2 questions are very old questions and I will answer them both the way I always do.

The mistake of many of those that watch or pursue MMA is that they believe MMA matters to all martial artists and it is the only game in town. Sorry, but it doesn’t and it isn’t. It is another type of martial art that is very good for what it wishes to accomplish, that is all.

If you train CMA and you want to compete, you go to Sanshou, if you train Karate or TDK you compete in the matches for those arts. Many martial artists simply do not care about MMA beyond watching it on TV or thinking of it as just another martial art.

lol very blunt, I'll be honest I find your reply a little bit ignorant but its obvious that you have had this conversation sometime before and maybe too many times to warrant you going through it again.
which is fine eveyones is intitled to there own opinion.