Gun & Knife Club

[7starmantis]

Lat night we did a special class dealing with gun and knife "defence". A student of ours is a senior agent with the FBI and he and I sat and talked for quite a while about this issue. He has been in charge of numerous "swat" and "special enforcement" teams, and has seen quite a bit of action. We talked about the theories of disarming a gunman. Quite frankly I want to say it should never be tried, unless your going to be shot, but we had a great discussion on it. We talked about how hard it is to shoot a moving target for the untrained individual. It was very interesting and I thought I would like to hear what you guys thoughts and ideas are on dealing with a gun or knife weilding opponent. Do you guys ever train in it? Do you think its worth training in? Is it possible to even defend agaisnt a knife or gun? We have had discussion in the past about these issues, but having not been done in a while, I would like to get the thoughts of CMAist as well as others. I'm specifically talkin about empty hand. You without a weapon and them having a gun or knife.

7sm

 

[loki09789]

Lat night we did a special class dealing with gun and knife "defence". A student of ours is a senior agent with the FBI and he and I sat and talked for quite a while about this issue. He has been in charge of numerous "swat" and "special enforcement" teams, and has seen quite a bit of action. We talked about the theories of disarming a gunman. Quite frankly I want to say it should never be tried, unless your going to be shot, but we had a great discussion on it. We talked about how hard it is to shoot a moving target for the untrained individual. It was very interesting and I thought I would like to hear what you guys thoughts and ideas are on dealing with a gun or knife weilding opponent. Do you guys ever train in it? Do you think its worth training in? Is it possible to even defend agaisnt a knife or gun? We have had discussion in the past about these issues, but having not been done in a while, I would like to get the thoughts of CMAist as well as others. I'm specifically talkin about empty hand. You without a weapon and them having a gun or knife.

7sm

The most basic and gross motor based idea on this topic is that you establish control of the weapon (knife or gun) and hold on for dear life while pounding the crap out of the computer center (HEAD) of the Bad guy until the nervous system malfunctions (knock out/death) OR he shifts his focus from retaining the weapon to self preservation and lets go/softens his control. Nothing fancy about it and you can use any of the motions that you would normally use to establish wrist/joint locks to get the entry started.

Gun/Knife disarms/controls IMO are harder to train/retain/consider than the average bear of a technique NOT because of the complexity of the technidques (as I said, they are simply the same as any joint lock entries) but because of the 'LEAP OF FAITH' factor. It is a serious gut check to commit to disarming a gun/knife and overcoming that natural "RUNNNNN!" or "FREEZZZZ!" response that can happen in the moment.

As a training topic, I really like it because it can be useful to get students to break through those invisible, self imposed inhibitions/barriers about committed techniques that they may not even be aware of and then translate that new 'UMPH' to other applications.

Brought in an old USMC buddy - now an INS agent and ESI trained Exec. Protection graduate - to do a class on third party invovlement (protecting a child/wife....) within the legal limits and such.

He carried (cleared and T-Blocked) his side arm and the goal was to prevent him from drawing and firing on the 'principle'.....BOY did the students wake up and work harder than I ever saw before!

That experience helped them tap into that sensation for other techniques afterward too.

 

[7starmantis]

The most basic and gross motor based idea on this topic is that you establish control of the weapon (knife or gun) and hold on for dear life while pounding the crap out of the computer center (HEAD) of the Bad guy until the nervous system malfunctions (knock out/death) OR he shifts his focus from retaining the weapon to self preservation and lets go/softens his control. Nothing fancy about it and you can use any of the motions that you would normally use to establish wrist/joint locks to get the entry started.

Thats a good explination, however we tend to not neccessarily focus on the head. We use alot of chin na with knee kicks or leg kicks to drop the opponent as well. We also try not to let the weapon take our primary focus. Thats hard to do, but if you focus so intently on just the weapon you could still get beaten.

Gun/Knife disarms/controls IMO are harder to train/retain/consider than the average bear of a technique NOT because of the complexity of the technidques (as I said, they are simply the same as any joint lock entries) but because of the 'LEAP OF FAITH' factor. It is a serious gut check to commit to disarming a gun/knife and overcoming that natural "RUNNNNN!" or "FREEZZZZ!" response that can happen in the moment.

Oh yeah, deffinitely. You can see it even just bringing out a fake gun or knife in class. Deffinitely makes the student more serious. There are some students who are that serious in all classes, but most you can really see a leap or increase in intensity.

7sm