Good Vs. Excellent

[Rob Broad]

I just finished reading an interesting article and it was entitled "Good is the Enemy of Excellence" at first the idea didn't sit right with me but then it dawned on me. I had my ideas what this meant and then proceeded to read the article and I have to agree that Good is the Eneny of Excellence.

In your training do you strive to be good or do you strive for excellence. If you go to 2 restaurants andand food is identical in all manners do you go back to the palce with good service or excellent service. We all love hearing, "Good Job!" but we beam when we hear, "Excellent".

Do be satisfied when you hear "Good Job" anymore push yourself harder to hear "Excellent"

 

[ppko]

I just finished reading an interesting article and it was entitled "Good is the Enemy of Excellence" at first the idea didn't sit right with me but then it dawned on me. I had my ideas what this meant and then proceeded to read the article and I have to agree that Good is the Eneny of Excellence.

In your training do you strive to be good or do you strive for excellence. If you go to 2 restaurants andand food is identical in all manners do you go back to the palce with good service or excellent service. We all love hearing, "Good Job!" but we beam when we hear, "Excellent".

Do be satisfied when you hear "Good Job" anymore push yourself harder to hear "Excellent"

I have always strived for excellence but once I have reached that I will go for the next level unstoppable (lol)

 

[Kenpo Mama]

Rob, I think that it is all determined on whether this is an internal dialog or whether you are seeking an external opinion of your martial arts practice. I believe internally i strive for being the best i can be on any given day.

However my two instructors have been very different in terms of dispensing praise. One instructor would easily view a form or tech as "excellent" and say so, whereas the other would simply say "ok", and on a good day i'd get a "that was good". Both are excellent instructors, different teaching styles.

I think that the most important opinion is your own. Strive to be the best you can be for yourself and no one else. "To thine own self be true". Good Journey to you.

Peace,

Donna :asian:

 

[ppko]

Rob, I think that it is all determined on whether this is an internal dialog or whether you are seeking an external opinion of your martial arts practice. I believe internally i strive for being the best i can be on any given day.

However my two instructors have been very different in terms of dispensing praise. One instructor would easily view a form or tech as "excellent" and say so, whereas the other would simply say "ok", and on a good day i'd get a "that was good". Both are excellent instructors, different teaching styles.

I think that the most important opinion is your own. Strive to be the best you can be for yourself and no one else. "To thine own self be true". Good Journey to you.

Peace,

Donna :asian:

A good post

PPKO

 

[Rob Broad]

Being a perfectionist, I am always pushing myself farther and harder to get it just right. When everyone is satisfied I know I still make it better.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

I've heard the opposite, actually. "Excellent is the enemy of good" - that if we are always striving for perfection, we may not notice or reject our work that is good. Obviously, having a continual goal for excellence is one thing - but this was applied in a more daily, pragmatic way. It's Ok for something to be good. if you need it to be "excellent", you may never be satisfied/stop at what you've done.

 

[Marginal]

It depends on how that pursuit of excellence is managed. True perfectionists tend to restlessly work on something to the point that they never get anywhere. At that point, you're sabotaging yourself. If on the other hand you coast along thinking that as long as nobody's pointing at you saying "what horrible technique!" you're going along well enough, you're probably cheating yourself.

I tend to go for good and constantly look at what constitutes good with a critical eye. Seems to me that it's a moving target whehter you're aiming for perfection or simple proficiency if you're going for either earnestly.

 

[Brother John]

I've heard the opposite, actually. "Excellent is the enemy of good" - that if we are always striving for perfection, we may not notice or reject our work that is good. Obviously, having a continual goal for excellence is one thing - but this was applied in a more daily, pragmatic way. It's Ok for something to be good. if you need it to be "excellent", you may never be satisfied/stop at what you've done.

The way I see it, excellence can be the aim, but we should accept the "good"...but re-aim and keep trying.
Your Brother
John

 

[Rob Broad]

I have rigorously tracked my progress over the years. I was lucky with my firts instructor, he was a wedding photographer, and had video cameras long before they became popular, so I have lawyas been able to guage my progress by watching myself on tape. I have also been in the habit of recording my practices since I was a purple belt. If my target was to do "x" 10 times that day I would mark off the spots on the sheet when I was happy with the performance. So it might actually 20 or 25 times to be happy with 10 of the attempts. Now a days it might only take me 12 times to get a happy 10.

 

[pete]

It depends on how that pursuit of excellence is managed. True perfectionists tend to restlessly work on something to the point that they never get anywhere.

in tai chi, we have a principle of no excess/no deficiency. this is usually refered to in the physical sense of not overextending yet not collapsing.

you can look at it as a way to balance your development, by not overindulging in perfectionism yet not being satisfied with a sloppy practice.

Marginal, you've hit the nail on the head! when perfection becomes an excess you've got to move on, while also being content with your present state. its not enough to be right... you've got to be right at the right time.

good post...

pete

 

[kenpo tiger]

Rob, I think that it is all determined on whether this is an internal dialog or whether you are seeking an external opinion of your martial arts practice. I believe internally i strive for being the best i can be on any given day.

However my two instructors have been very different in terms of dispensing praise. One instructor would easily view a form or tech as "excellent" and say so, whereas the other would simply say "ok", and on a good day i'd get a "that was good". Both are excellent instructors, different teaching styles.

I think that the most important opinion is your own. Strive to be the best you can be for yourself and no one else. "To thine own self be true". Good Journey to you.

Peace,

Donna :asian:

Agreed! KT

 

[Martial Tucker]

Rob, I think that it is all determined on whether this is an internal dialog or whether you are seeking an external opinion of your martial arts practice. I believe internally i strive for being the best i can be on any given day.

However my two instructors have been very different in terms of dispensing praise. One instructor would easily view a form or tech as "excellent" and say so, whereas the other would simply say "ok", and on a good day i'd get a "that was good". Both are excellent instructors, different teaching styles.

I think that the most important opinion is your own. Strive to be the best you can be for yourself and no one else. "To thine own self be true". Good Journey to you.

Peace,

Donna :asian:

I also agree with this very much. I think it's fine to aim for perfection as long as you don't lose sight of the fact that you are human and you are never going to be or do anything absolutely perfect. I try to set goals for myself on a relative basis rather than an absolute basis. That is, rather than striving for a fixed or finite goal in an endeavor, my goal each day when I wake up is simply to be better than I was yesterday. I think it's foolish to compare where you are, what you have, or what you can do, to another person. You are YOU with your own set of gifts, abilities, and limitations. You can only control YOU. You can't control what other people do, so why stress out over your accomplishments vs theirs. That gets you nowhere. However, if just try each day to do a bit better than you did the day before, everything seems to take care of itself without all the anguish of worrying about how you compare to others, or what they may be thinking of you.
My daughter is a fairly accomplished competitive figure skater. When she competes, I don't let her watch the other skaters in her group that skate before her. Watching them can only raise her anxiety level if they do well, or make her overconfident if they don't. She still has to go out there and perform. All she can do is her best, regardless of what the others have done
before her. She can't control them, so why worry about them. I tell her: Do the best that YOU can do, and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I think striving for "good" or "excellent" depends upon your mission goals. One has to be realistic as to what level one can attain in a certain time, and shooting for perfection may be counterproductive. If you have limited time and resources to produce something that is in critical need, "good" just might have to do...and excellence will have to be put on the back burner.

Perfectionism is a disease. I know an OCD woman who will spend the entire night wrapping and re-wrapping a half dozen presents for a wedding the next day. When she writes letters the tops and bottoms of every letter must be a specific distance from the line on the paper. One letter off, and an entire letter is pitched and the process starts over.

This is an extreme example, but serves to point out that there are times where perfection can be counter-productive.

Often too we set our perceptions of excellence by other people's yardsticks, and this can be damaging. How often have we heard of the father who sets ridiculous standards of achievements for a son...and nothing the boy does meets the father's expectations?

I've seen this in the martial arts as well when instructors try to turn students into little versions of themselves...or the students make that effort. If students lacks the physical attributes of the instructor, they might never make the grade. Better they strive to work to the best level of their own natural talents.

I would point out that "excellence" is a good thing to strive for...but we must govern our ambition with common sense.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Flatlander]

Steve, you must be, like, 95 years old or something. That was an incredible post. Wisdom, sir, you have aplenty.

Very respectfully,

Dan.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Steve, you must be, like, 95 years old or something. That was an incredible post. Wisdom, sir, you have aplenty.

Very respectfully,

Dan.

Thank you, Dan.

There are days where I feel like I'm that old, certainly. Almost invariably the first twenty five minutes of every day feel very much that age.

I'm 47...a little more than half of 95. As for wisdom, there is much of it here on Martialtalk, and a great deal of it sprouting from people far younger than me. But I appreciate the compliment.

Regards,


Steve

 

[OC Kid]

I read in this book, I think it was the way of the peaceful warrior, but this particular premise was that as we learn more and more we have less and less to really learn so are istakes though are really smaller they seem larger and larger as they become less and less...If that makes sense

 

[Rob Broad]

I started this thread mainly because I became tired of hearing people say "It is good enough" when they are practicing. It is that lax attitude that has sufficiently hurt the calibre of the Black Belts we see today.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Rob - if I had seen or experienced that, I think I'd be quite ticked. For me, and a number of people I know, we have the opposite problem - never being happy with what we have acheived, what we can do. Thus my weighing in on the issue. But certainly, if I saw people who seemed to not strive for better, or not push themselves at all, I would be frustruated.

 

[Rob Broad]

The school that the "Momma Bear" incident occurred at had the "Its good enough" phiosphy. It really bothered me. When I made mention of it, I was shocked to see that several of the members of the school felt the same way I did, and that the attitude was actually started and fostered by the owner.

I have a set of standards that I like to live with and if someone wants to train with me "it good enough" just doesn't cut it. I want people to give me their all and in turn I will share all the knowledge I have.