Getting old, muscle memory, and younger black belts

[Stryder]

Hello,

This is my first post so I'll introduce myself first. I have studied martial arts since ~1989. Bok Fu (Kenpo, Aikido, Ju-Jitsu, Boxing, KickBoxing, and Tae Kwon Do) - First under Mr. James Kane, then Mr. Dave Marinoble, and now under Mr. Scott Todd.

In the old days, I took my flexibility, speed, and accuracy for granted. I remember parking my foot at the top of the heavy bag and stretching into the splits and watching the older guys struggle to kick above their own belt.

Now I am that older guy hahahaha. 3 kids, marriage, and general physical use of my body have taken it's toll while I spent the last 10 years or so away from formal training. I live the martial way, but life has a way of prioritizing things for you so I have not attended my school for a while.

At 15 years old, my son showed an interest (I was so excited!). We went and visited an old training partner of mine that owns a school, strapped on white belts, and the lessons began; my lessons in humility.

It only took my son a few months to surpass me with a staff (it used to be my weapon of choice). Displeased with myself, I immediately began training how I had trained when I was younger which quickly lead to injury. I had to back off the intensity and train smarter, taking a longer road - this is frustrating for me.

Are there any folks here that have come back after a long layoff? Do you have any tips to get back that old sharpness? My endurance is returning but strength and flexibility in my legs took a boat to Cuba and I don't think they'll ever come back.

Am I relegated to being "that older guy that can't kick above his belt"?.

I refuse to accept this fate.

 

[still learning]

Hello, The Peter Princple of life! Accepting the older part is OK. Age will slow you down, and you may be able to get back some flexablity, and power.

Adjustment to your training will be needed. You will not have to do 100 push-ups, maybe 40 aday. Jump rope in half the time you use to do it.

Our Professor for All black belt testing (including up to 9th degrees), has made the requirement for 40-55 1/2 the physcial part, and 56 and over do only 1/3 the physcial part. Younger ones has to do 100 push-up, Jump rope two times (8 minutes),mop the floors (4 different floor excericses) 10X, sit-ups, and more. (full amounts)

You cannot expect all ages to do the same things in the physcial parts.

The human body as it get very old will slow down, muscle gets smaller,everything weaker. All part of aging.

There are alot of people over 55 that can do the "Iron Man" in KONA, Hawaii. swim 2.5 miles, bike 145 miles and run 26 miles in 12 hours.

At least I can swim (not far) I do ride my bike (on a stand), and I try to walk more than run.

Accept what you can do now...one can always improve a little more...but never the same pace like the younger days of training.

Look at when you restarted and than look forward to where you are? ..did you see some improvements for yourself? ...imagine if you are still training a year from now, 3 years from now ,to 10 years of more, you will become better than when you restarted....THAT IS GOOD!

.....Aloha from an old man too! (well near the mid 50's)

 

[terryl965]

First off welcome to Martial talk and I'm with you the older you get the harder it becomes.

 

[Bigshadow]

Ahhh my friend, you do not have the body you used to have as a youth, so you must adjust your training accordingly. However, you may want to ask yourself if what you are doing is effective and embodies the principles of the art you are training in and just be the best you can be.

Humility is a life long lesson, I think we all have dealt with it in some form or another. Consider it part of YOUR training.

However, I started training when I was not a youth, so I got the double whammy! Train smarter, I say. Nothing wrong with being encouraged by the youthful abilities, just know your limits.

Almost forgot, welcome to Martial Talk!

 

[Grenadier]

Welcome aboard!

Take things at a conservative pace for now. Your body needs to remember how to train, and this is going to take months. Most importantly, realize your limitations, and try to work with them.

It's true, that as we get older, we get slower, as the youthful ones get faster.

However, there's no reason why you can't continue to improve as a martial artist. You make adjustments to your techniques, based on who you are now, versus who you were before. You learn to fight smarter, not harder, and learn to look for the openings, to hit your opponent when he's off-balance, and to read people better. This comes with time, experience, patience, and wisdom, something that the youngsters won't necessarily use.

Yes, we have a big, slower fellow in the class, who everyone knows can't kick above the belt. Yet, he has excellent timing, and can land punches with remarkable accuracy. Best of all (for him), when he hits you, you KNOW you were hit.

Because of his timing, and his ability to read his opponents, he really looks a whole heck of a lot faster than people think.

 

[exile]

Hi Stryder---I started MA training around three years ago, just before my 57th birthday. But I'd already done seven years of progressively heavier and higher-intensity weight training, and I feel now, looking at my sixtieth birthday in March, stronger, faster and harder-edged than I ever felt in my twenties. The lesson I draw from this is that serious strength training can radically drop your so-called biomarkers---the various physical signatures of advancing chronological age---and take some of the hex, at least, off your MA training.

So if I had to recommend just one thing to you, it would be a high-intensity strength training program a la Mentzer's H.I.T. or the Sisco/Little `power-factor' training (I prefer the latter, as I think it's biologically more realistic, but both are good). The emphasis is on short-length, stronges-leverage-range reps using maximal weights, with long recovery periods---don't exercise the same muscle groups more than once a week to start with, then twice a month, and eventually one a month. Probably a cardio program with interval sprints instead of the standard moderate-jogging pace as well. If you're patient and give that combo a year to kick in, by the time you get into your late 50s you'll be able to give your kid and probably most of your MA school a run for way more than their money! Just get yourself checked out by your doctor---if you want to do something like this, it's absolutely essential that you level with him or her about your plans and get their green light. But once you start, you will probably find your blood pressure and cholesterol will start going way down and you'll feel a thousand percent better overall...

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

Physiologically, getting older mostly means longer recovery time, less nutritional buffers, and being more injury prone.

Thus perfection of technique leads to no pain in execution, and wrong technique is easily spotted by pain.

This is the cool thing. Perfection of skill doesn´t decline as athletic ability does! So if things are done right from the beginning, then everything gets better with age. Muscling it out leads to injury, as you have expeienced.

So this is the oportunity to learn pure correctness, and pass it to you son, since he won´t be able to notice incorrectness as you do.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

 

[PeaceWarrior]

Hi Stryder! Welcome to the forum!

This is one of the reasons I wanted to train an internal martial art. Because, in the end, when you study a true internal martial art, it doesnt matter how many push ups you can do or how much weight you can lift. My Sifu is well into his sixties and he has a youthful energy and strength (not ordinary strength) that is hard to believe. He cant kick over his head or anything like that but he has amazing timing and tosses us young folk around like rag dolls. He can also read your moves like a book, its almost spooky. I guess what Im getting at is maybe you should focus on more internal training? I dont know what you should do in your position, probably gradually step it up, gradually increase your flexibility, stamina, etc. I myself am a youngster so I dont know if Im the best person to listen to... lol

Good luck my friend!

Peace

keith

 

[Kacey]

Hi - welcome!

The thing to remember - as you've already discovered to some extent, by training smarter instead of harder - is that age and experience (or treachery) will outweigh youth and speed!

 

[searcher]

I will only tell you one thing: Master Hee Il Cho. He is an "older" guy, but he is stuck kicking at belt level. Time and re-training will let you get there, but it will take time.

BTW-welcome to MT!!

 

[Stryder]

Thanks for the replies everyone and also for the greetings.

I just got back from class and it went much better than last night. I discovered a few things.

1 - I can't go out like a jackrabbit and kill everything in my path all the time like I used to.
2 - That's ok...and as long as I accept that, I will not injure myself again.
3 - If I pace myself, and put the emphasis where it counts, I will finish strong without my technique suffering.

I have also been having these "learnings" appear to me lately. Practicing the same ol' Kenpo moves that I've been doing for a million years, I find little secrets in them. A tweak here and an adjustment there and WOW lots more power than I EVER had. In fact, I think I have more striking power now than ever before, it just takes longer to get it there hahaha. I analyze more now than I ever did and as a result, I find that I am learning which, for me is the point of it all.

I still want to go run with those young black belts...it burns me up!!! But I know that I have other things I must work on.

Thanks again for the advice - I definitely found things I can work on and get satisfaction from.

 

[Drac]

Am I relegated to being "that older guy that can't kick above his belt"?.I refuse to accept this fate.

First off welcome to Martial talk and I'm with you the older you get the harder it becomes.

Greetings and Welcome to MT..You've already recieved some excellent responses so adding to them will be difficult..I have used my MA skills on duty for the last 19 years and I NEVER never had to kick above the waist..To paraphase what the others have said "It ain't gonna be easy"..I have discovered that while I no longer possess the speed of my younger days I hit with MORE POWER that these younger counter parts..My 2 cents..

 

[Ninjamom]

Old???!?!?! Pshaw!!!! I bet you're not even over 50! (Kids these days! )

I used to train in elementary and high school, then took a 25 year hiatus for school, career, marriage, and kids. Lost all that flexibility and gained that lovely middle-aged bumper, thanks to a combination of a computer-based job and gravity. I started training again about 4 years ago, and I am lovin' life!! Most of the excess weight is gone (as one signature I saw on the forums says, "I may not have a six-pack, but at least it's no longer a keg.") It took quite a while to get some degree of flexibility back (I still can't do full side splits), and I can kick higher, but not as high as the 'kids'.

I think you've gotten some great feedback so far (my hats off to all you MA-ists still learning over 60!) The key seems to be adding patience to all the other disciplines you've learned along your personal 'do' of life and the martial way.

BTW, welcome to MT. I think you'll enjoy the neighborhood, and I've found the natives are really friendly.

FYI: the oldest student in my school is 74. He will probably test for his black belt this coming June. He hasn't talked a lot about his training to his family members, because he wants his black belt to be a surprise............ to his parents.

 

[charyuop]

Greetings.

Physiologically, getting older mostly means longer recovery time, less nutritional buffers, and being more injury prone.

Thus perfection of technique leads to no pain in execution, and wrong technique is easily spotted by pain.

This is the cool thing. Perfection of skill doesn´t decline as athletic ability does! So if things are done right from the beginning, then everything gets better with age. Muscling it out leads to injury, as you have expeienced.

So this is the oportunity to learn pure correctness, and pass it to you son, since he won´t be able to notice incorrectness as you do.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

I perfectly agree with this point. When you are younger you can be lacking of perfect posture and be more "elastic" on the execution of techniques because your strength and flexibility will make up for that little lack. As you grow older you start counting on those qualities always less, thus it starts being very important relying on the quality of what you do. Techniques will start assuming a different meaning as you grow older.
Watching videos of the great Masters of the Arts I practice I understood that as they grew older they tend to execute more techniques which are effective for the purpose instead of thinking about how spectacular they can be. Simple, easy, but that takes you to the result you want to reach.

 

[IcemanSK]

Welcome to Martial Talk.

I would encourage you to cut yourself some slack. Give yourself some time to "get it back." Having said that, you will get some of it back, but maybe not all. It didn't come naturally when you started, did it? And if it did, congratulations, time has made you equal to the rest of us.

Seriously, you'll be fine. Just don't try to get it all back at once.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Welcome to MartialTalk! Adjust to the way you are now and be more relaxed and loose in your movements. At every opportunity try to find ways to use less muscle and better body dynamics to your advantage. Good luck and I am happy that you are training again.

 

[Shotochem]

Welcome Stryder,

I'm learning that same lesson myself. I have been finding that I'm not as quick and as strong as some of the 18 yr olds these days. Just a split second slower and I can't quite chase them around as much.

While getting smoked for 3 straight points during sparring, my Sensei called time and asked me how old are you?

I said 38. He said good don't try to fight like you teenager. Fight the way you fight now. I continued the match less aggressive, and more concentrated on technique and looking for openings than just unloading and trying to beat him to the punch.

Funny I lost by one, but I learned by 100.

We can't stay young forever, but I'm not quite ready for a pine box just yet.:angel:

 

[Brian King]

The lessons that you are learning Stryder are important but even more important or at least as important is remembering that your son (and likely others) are also learning from you. The way that you handle setbacks and achievements , the way that you approach your daily training, the way you handle and use your greed and competitive drives, the way that you handle and learn from your weaknesses, and your pride and ego and humility are all being observed and noted. Maybe not consciously but your son and others have eyes and can not help but to notice.

Speed and strength are in my opinion is nice but are often over rated. These skills are not really ours for we lose them with time or neglect or injury. Having patience and developing timing is something that is easier to develop once speed and strength have been limited. If you want to be able to once again kick above head level have patience and the discipline to keep working on it until you can.

The felons and others that often are the aggressive attackers are almost always between 17 and 26 years old and always will be while we will hopefully be gracefully aging. Eventually not just some but most will be faster and stronger than we are. With this in mind I believe it is important to not only train to fight for today using what strengths and weaknesses I currently suffer but like saving money for tomorrow I often train handicapping myself various was such as by limiting the amount of strength that I use or the speed that I react with or my vision (I have some safety glasses that I have clouded over to limit the vision) or by placing a Jo inside my pant leg to restrict my movement. If injured I try to train so that I can learn to move while protecting a weakness or injury. In this way I am also learning how to fight tomorrow. I am saying this because right now you seem to be viewing your current situation as bad or weak, when in reality it is a wonderful training opportunity. If you keep training you will get stronger and faster and more free in your movement, but you will also get older or perhaps suffer an injury in the future as well and remembering your movements and lessons from today will help you tomorrow.

Welcome to MT and good on you for guiding your son to the arts.
Brian

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I refuse to accept this fate.

Hit the gym and start squatting. Seems to be a core component of combatting the negative effects of aging on backs, knees, kicks, etc.

D.

 

[bydand]

This reminds me of something I seen years ago. I have been thinking the same thing lately because at 42 I started back to training I left for 7 or 8 years due to life getting inthe way. The saying was: "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill." When I first saw it I was early 20's and got a good chuckle, now that I am one of the older guys with all the stiffness and aches that come from years of working hard everyday, I can see the truth to the statement. Can I kick as high as I used to? Nope, the real question would be "Do I want to kick as high as I used to?" Nope to that as well. Age and experence has shown me that if I can't kick high, bring the target down to where I can give it the boot. My timing is much better than most of the young men and women I train with and that is a greater advantage than being able to hike my foot higher than my head I have found. Give it time, it does come back slowly, don't expect to ever feel 20 again. You don't have to.