Fundamentals Of Chi Sao Proper Tan Sao Structure

futsaowingchun

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Proper use of Wing Chun structure, energy, and correct use of elbow position when applied in Chi Sao practice. The focus is on the proper use of the Tan Sau structure.
 

wckf92

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Proper use of Wing Chun structure, energy, and correct use of elbow position when applied in Chi Sao practice. The focus is on the proper use of the Tan Sau structure.

Hi Futsao...
TBH, there isn't much about your video I agree with; but I appreciate you posting it.
For example, at 1:12...that is about the weirdest thing (and tactically unsound) to do at that moment. If your partner had ANY comprehension of WC principles...his left hand would have knocked out your teeth at that moment.
As for an 'over extended Tan sao'... most wouldn't do such a strange thing (unless their Tan was extending rapidly in order to HIT you due to an opening they may have felt).
Nobody with any experience would have an over extended Tan.
As for the other 'circumstances' WRT to the Bong... I've yet to see and actual Bong Sao done properly by you in your videos. To my point, your student (?) in this video has a better Bong Sao than you. Now, to your point about Bong receiving pressure, "IF" your Bong was formed properly, you'd know to "receive what comes" instead of the response you mention in your video. I've never seen or heard of any WC man define a Bong Sao with their elbow "higher" than their wrist... see what I mean?
I could go on...but I think you get my meaning...
Again, I appreciate you posting...thx man.
 

geezer

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Proper use of Wing Chun structure, energy, and correct use of elbow position when applied in Chi Sao practice. The focus is on the proper use of the Tan Sau structure.

IMO the real problem is trying to resist rather than using your opponent's force. The moment you resist, you stiffen and loose springy energy and forward pressure.

Perhaps you are not stiffening up, but from your explanation it sounds like it. You seem to be taking pride in having a very strong tan-sau structure, while by contrast our WC strives to be very "flexible". We pride ourselves at converting tan to bong, etc. with "an ounce of force". Our focus is forward, not on fighting hands.
 

JPinAZ

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Hi Futsao...... I've never seen or heard of any WC man define a Bong Sao with their elbow "higher" than their wrist... see what I mean?

I agreed with most of what you said. Only think I would mention about the above part is, the elbow higher than wrist does make sense - depending on what type of bong you are talking about.

In my lineage we have 2 'primary' bong sau - ying (eagle) bong and hok (crane) bong. Our ying bong sau uses a straight wrist with elbow higher than wrist. This is used more for line theory. Our hok bong has a bent wrist with the wrist, elbow and shoulder all on the same horizontal plane with wrist/fingers pointing fwd on center. This bong is used mainly for centerline penetration. Each has a specific and distinct contact point and leverage application. TBH, I don't see either represented in the video, so not sure what's being show really.
(We also have a laan bong, but that's probably enough off-topic for now :) )
 

wckf92

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I agreed with most of what you said. Only think I would mention about the above part is, the elbow higher than wrist does make sense - depending on what type of bong you are talking about.

In my lineage we have 2 'primary' bong sau - ying (eagle) bong and hok (crane) bong. Our ying bong sau uses a straight wrist with elbow higher than wrist. This is used more for line theory. Our hok bong has a bent wrist with the wrist, elbow and shoulder all on the same horizontal plane with wrist/fingers pointing fwd on center. This bong is used mainly for centerline penetration. Each has a specific and distinct contact point and leverage application. TBH, I don't see either represented in the video, so not sure what's being show really.
(We also have a laan bong, but that's probably enough off-topic for now :) )

True, and I agree with you. I should have been more specific with my comments and confine them to that specific situation. Thx JP.
 
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futsaowingchun

futsaowingchun

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Hi Futsao...
TBH, there isn't much about your video I agree with; but I appreciate you posting it.
For example, at 1:12...that is about the weirdest thing (and tactically unsound) to do at that moment. If your partner had ANY comprehension of WC principles...his left hand would have knocked out your teeth at that moment.
As for an 'over extended Tan sao'... most wouldn't do such a strange thing (unless their Tan was extending rapidly in order to HIT you due to an opening they may have felt).
Nobody with any experience would have an over extended Tan.
As for the other 'circumstances' WRT to the Bong... I've yet to see and actual Bong Sao done properly by you in your videos. To my point, your student (?) in this video has a better Bong Sao than you. Now, to your point about Bong receiving pressure, "IF" your Bong was formed properly, you'd know to "receive what comes" instead of the response you mention in your video. I've never seen or heard of any WC man define a Bong Sao with their elbow "higher" than their wrist... see what I mean?
I could go on...but I think you get my meaning...as far as having an over extended tan..it happens even for a.second. but even if one does not do that what I'm showing is a principle behind it.
Again, I appreciate you posting...thx man.

Had to watch the video at 1:12. This move is just changing hands. When you do this you have to also move to his blindside which i did not do for reasons if I did it would block your view.
 
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futsaowingchun

futsaowingchun

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Hi Futsao...
TBH, there isn't much about your video I agree with; but I appreciate you posting it.
For example, at 1:12...that is about the weirdest thing (and tactically unsound) to do at that moment. If your partner had ANY comprehension of WC principles...his left hand would have knocked out your teeth at that moment.
As for an 'over extended Tan sao'... most wouldn't do such a strange thing (unless their Tan was extending rapidly in order to HIT you due to an opening they may have felt).
Nobody with any experience would have an over extended Tan.
As for the other 'circumstances' WRT to the Bong... I've yet to see and actual Bong Sao done properly by you in your videos. To my point, your student (?) in this video has a better Bong Sao than you. Now, to your point about Bong receiving pressure, "IF" your Bong was formed properly, you'd know to "receive what comes" instead of the response you mention in your video. I've never seen or heard of any WC man define a Bong Sao with their elbow "higher" than their wrist... see what I mean?
I could go on...but I think you get my meaning...
Again, I appreciate you posting...thx man.

As far as me using a higher bong with the wrist higher then the shoulder .In my lineage we have this bing sao and we use the one your Sanilac with.each have there own purpose and usage.
 
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futsaowingchun

futsaowingchun

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IMO the real problem is trying to resist rather than using your opponent's force. The moment you resist, you stiffen and loose springy energy and forward pressure.

Perhaps you are not stiffening up, but from your explanation it sounds like it. You seem to be taking pride in having a very strong tan-sau structure, while by contrast our WC strives to be very "flexible". We pride ourselves at converting tan to bong, etc. with "an ounce of force". Our focus is forward, not on fighting hands.
All southern fist have same bridge. My bridge is flexible but strong at the same time
Do not confuse strenght with being inflexable. If someone can not move my bridge that is their problem not mine. They have the liability I dont.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Had to watch the video at 1:12. This move is just changing hands. When you do this you have to also move to his blindside which i did not do for reasons if I did it would block your view.
IMO, just to move to your opponent's blindside is not enough because he will turn with you. But if you can drag his right arm to jam his own left arm and make his body to spin to his left (your right), he will not be able to punch you with his left hand at that particular moment.
 
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futsaowingchun

futsaowingchun

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IMO, just to move to your opponent's blindside is not enough because he will turn with you. But if you can drag his right arm to jam his own left arm and make his body to spin to his left (your right), he will not be able to punch you with his left hand at that particular moment.

I agree with what your saying, but what I was showing is what I would do if my tan was weak but what the video was about was not that. It was about proper tan structure in that case switching hands like I did is not necessary. The structure of the tan is not fightin forse with forse I'm using my body to transfer his energy down into the ground.
 
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