Fraud.....

[tmonis]

Without mentioning any names, Please explain to me how a well known martial artist can be promoted to 1st Dan in1994 and then be promoted to 9th by 2003. And has only had a school for about 3 years from 1994-1997. Gave it up and his only job to the Martial Arts now is be a figure head of an organization.

I guess it comes back to not what you know, but who you know in this case. Maybe if I work real hard sucking up I can become a 10th Dan in about a year or so to.

Is it just me or does that sound real fishy to you?:idunno:

 

[Michael Billings]

If the facts are as you state them, and he claiming a Kenpo 10th degree ... Pheeeewwwwweeeeeeee!

-Michael

 

[tmonis]

No, he was promoted by a very well known 10th Dan in the Kenpo world to 9th Dan. But my point is how do you go from 1st to 9th in less than 9 years?
I find that to be very interesting.

 

[shesulsa]

If the facts are as you state them, and he claiming a Kenpo 10th degree ... Pheeeewwwwweeeeeeee!

-Michael

:rofl::rofl::rofl::boing1::boing2::boing1:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Try not to worry about who gets promoted to what. Eventually those who try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes wil get exposed at some point.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Without mentioning any names,


. Maybe if I work real hard sucking up I can become a 10th Dan in about a year or so to.

Is it just me or does that sound real fishy to you?:idunno:

Not at all, and in fact, I can sell you the same rank progression system that'll get you there in months!

 

[tmonis]

Try not to worry about who gets promoted to what. Eventually those who try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes wil get exposed at some point.

Good Call jfarnsworth. However by doing that it really gives their style and system of Kenpo a real bad name and it makes you stop and wonder about it all. I was even told that some of their stuff was copied from other people and called their own.

It's all good though. And thank all of you for your opinions. I was just wondering if anyone else felt like I did.

 

[tmonis]

Not at all, and in fact, I can sell you the same rank progression system that'll get you there in months!

Lotus,

I hope you are just joking. Video tapes cannot take the place of true training.

 

[KenpoDave]

Without mentioning any names, Please explain to me how a well known martial artist can be promoted to 1st Dan in1994 and then be promoted to 9th by 2003. And has only had a school for about 3 years from 1994-1997. Gave it up and his only job to the Martial Arts now is be a figure head of an organization.

I guess it comes back to not what you know, but who you know in this case. Maybe if I work real hard sucking up I can become a 10th Dan in about a year or so to.

Is it just me or does that sound real fishy to you?:idunno:

Well, Elvis got an 8th. I try not to worry about other people's ranks. Other people's ranks don't really matter though.

I have heard of people "orphaned" in their arts by an instructor who retires or dies, but continues to train and/or teach for years with no rank advancement, and then later is bumped up several degrees at one time by a governing body.

But, the bottom line is that the cream rises to the top.

 

[tmonis]

Well, Elvis got an 8th. I try not to worry about other people's ranks. Other people's ranks don't really matter though.

I have heard of people "orphaned" in their arts by an instructor who retires or dies, but continues to train and/or teach for years with no rank advancement, and then later is bumped up several degrees at one time by a governing body.

But, the bottom line is that the cream rises to the top.

Kenpodave, Thanks for your thoughts. I really am not worried about the ranking is much as I am the way people are selling out Kenpo and the other arts just to make a buck. It really disappoints me that a new person looking at Kenpo as something they might like to do and then see stuff like that happening. It gives the rest of us a bad name. Even if we prove that we are hard workers and train hard. It still leaves a bad taste in their mouth.

It is one thing if you are training privately with someone after being orphaned and teach other students. But to have a school for only 3 years after making 1st. Give it up, never to open a new school and then in ten years later make 9th. How do you do that?

And I agree time will either promote you or expose you. But just traveling around not really having to do any thing at seminars. Who will question them?

Sad they can get away with that. It is kinda like following Jim Jones, David Korish, Timothy Mcvee or something.

 

[getgoin]

Give it up, never to open a new school and then in ten years later make 9th. How do you do that?

Check or Money Order usually works.

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Kenpodave, Thanks for your thoughts. I really am not worried about the ranking is much as I am the way people are selling out Kenpo and the other arts just to make a buck. It really disappoints me that a new person looking at Kenpo as something they might like to do and then see stuff like that happening. It gives the rest of us a bad name. Even if we prove that we are hard workers and train hard. It still leaves a bad taste in their mouth.

Yah, I'm sorry , my comment was tongue in cheek at best. The above statement sums it up nicely though, and this phenomena is not restricted to Kenpo alone. There are "practioners" in all styles and martial arts who either negotiate their belts ( as opposed to earn them through hard training and demonstration of skill ), and still some others who just straight out buy their belts off the net ( and buy registration ) without ever having neccessarily have ever even trained. This is an unfortunate fact of a society so financially geared, but for those that earnt theirs, it takes nothing away from neither their acheivement or integrity. Sometimes, and particularly for students in this case, you have to sort through the chaff to get to the hay. And that, and working out the difference is part of the experience.

cheers

Blooming Lotus

 

[jfarnsworth]

Good Call jfarnsworth.

Hey thanks :asian: .

However by doing that it really gives their style and system of Kenpo a real bad name and it makes you stop and wonder about it all. I was even told that some of their stuff was copied from other people and called their own

I answered something similar to this in another thread a few days ago. It was either something like "Anyone can get a black belt" or something about "sanctioning rank by a governing board". I can't remember the thread of the second one exactly but I answered both of them.
:asian:

 

[Doc]

All of the comments are obviously on the money. Consider that "Kenpo" has more 'grandmasters," and "masters" than any other martial art form and you began to get an idea of the significant impact the commercialization and the "business" aspect of "kenpo" has had on all forms of the art.

Kenpo has consistently drawn more frauds, and nebulous rankings than any art, and that includes some legitmate ranks who have chosen to "inflate" their rank for the expressed purposes of financial gain and public notoriety, and organization building. Some lower ranks have recruited higher ranks into their organizations, only to be promoted by them, so they can get together and promote each other. Than there are those that started out with a legitimate organizations who were "fast track" promoted by suspect panels and non-kenpoists only to leave after they reached their rank limitations.

That is not to say that other arts are completely devoid of such shenanigans, but not to the extend that we see in "kenpo." We are rife with multi-lettered organizations, (all with their own SGM or GM), and underling "yes men masters" hovering for rank, a multitude of rediculous video "distance learning" courses also offering rank, and more seminars, camps, and merchandise than any other art on earth. We have more sharlitans, liars, thieves, con men, child molesters, and dope dealers than anyone. I thought the Koreans (styles) were bad, but I'm afraid we win the prize. All in the pursuit of the almighty buck.

Now I'm not suggesting that because someone makes money it makes them a bad guy, after all this is America, but its the over inflated rank that is sought after and then utilized in pursuit of the buck that bothers me. After all, who would pay money to go to a seminar to listen to a first degree?

I stop wearing rank on my belt because everywhere you go, all people do is look down to see the size of your ••ck, and compare it to their own. If yours is bigger than people want to talk to you. If theirs is bigger, they ignore you and look for the guy with the big one, apparently for a good scr•wing. Look and listen to me, and if you find value in what I have to say and share, then my rank doesn't matter. And when I talk to you, I follow my teachers example. I don't care what your rank is either. Let's just talk about Kenpo. We just might educate each other.

"Just because the red show, don't mean that you know." - Ed Parker Sr.
That's one hell of a statement when you're talking about your own students and organization. I know you didn't think he was talking about some other group - did you?

 

[Blooming Lotus]

you're right. Unfortunately the colour of your belt and how many stripes it has often does equate to the size of your errm ....neck, but as long as you really arte good with the size of said neck , that makes your belt as a show belt piece kinda redundant now doesn't. And if you're not in need of the show piece , your skill and knowledge in even one discussion or demo, will often just speak for itself.

Something comes to mind here about books , covers and judgement........now what was that exactly...............???

BL

 

[tmonis]

Doc and Lotus,

You guys are right on the money. Back in the day, I can remember when the late Prof. Cerio had an organization called NCIMMA. An excellent organization that tried to bring all Kenpo stylist together for networking etc. But look what happen. People started sending in phoney certificates as part of the membership package. Prof. Cerio would send them a affiliate certificate showing membership to that bogus ranking certificate. Next thing you know. These people was running around saying they were ranked and in fact had trained with Prof. Cerio. What a lie. Most of them had never even met the man. Prof. Cerio caught to what was happening an closed the organization down. Those people made it bad for alot of us for a long time. I bet some of them still use those certificates to try to pull to woll over some peoples eyes. Those are the same guys that only have pictures of themselves hanging on their walls of their Dojo. No student pictures anywhere.

Thanks very much for your input.

 

[GAB]

Hi Doc,

Good post, thanks for the information and for your opinion.

Regards, Gary

 

[Doc]

Please explain to me how a well known martial artist can be promoted to 1st Dan in1994 and then be promoted to 9th by 2003.

How about being a third when Ed Parker Sr. Passed and then being a 9th in 6 years promoted by smeone who has no rank in kenpo at all? It happens, but history is a mother.

 

[LIFEGUARDTKD]

You should not be surprised by this, if you follow the path of many so called 'masters' you'll find self-promotion, and promotion amoung a group of 'Federation' freinds.
My own teacher was amoung both catagories. He even promoted himself to 8th dan.
Needless to say I finally gave up on him as my permanent master when I found out where he was coming from. Thats not to say that he didn't have things to teach us. His knowledge level was that of a first dan. Such is life.

 

[LIFEGUARDTKD]

You should not be surprised. There are those who pass themselves as 'masters' when in fact they may be only 1st or 2nd dan or those who get promoted by their 'Federation' friends. I once saw a small group of masters promote each other on the spot after a successful tournament. Yes my friend it was raining rank. My own teacher actually promoted himself to 8th dan so that he could retire and claim he was a grand master. Needless to say I left him as my personal teacher and lost all respect for him. Thats not to say he didn't have techniques to teach us, but the fact was what he had was at best 1st or 2nd dan knowledge. If it were not for my cross and self training I'd be in poor shape indeed. The shame is that newbees don't know whats happening to the or that their being duped until they have spent so much time and so much money before they find out. Peace