FMA Question

[Xue Sheng]

Please excuse the newb question and I mean no offense at all.

My background is Chinese Martial Arts and heavy in the internal side of that. There is a heck of a lot of tradition and history that comes with CMA as well as various forms, some styles have more than others. In looking at various martial arts in my area it seems to me that in FMA there is much less of a concern on history and tradition (not that it is not there) as well as much less or possibly no dependence on forms. I have seen weapons training and there seems to be a dependence on 2 person training like Push hands, tuishou and chi sau found in CMA styles.

Basically it appears less complicated and what I am seeing is a greater concern with the actual training for fighting and more of a concern for application than history, lineage, or form. And to be honest if what I am beginning to think about FMA is correct it is rather refreshing and I like it.

Or is it that I simply have not seen enough or look at it long enough and I am missing the point completely?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Please excuse the newb question and I mean no offense at all.

My background is Chinese Martial Arts and heavy in the internal side of that. There is a heck of a lot of tradition and history that comes with CMA as well as various forms, some styles have more than others. In looking at various martial arts in my area it seems to me that in FMA there is much less of a concern on history and tradition (not that it is not there) as well as much less or possibly no dependence on forms. I have seen weapons training and there seems to be a dependence on 2 person training like Push hands, tuishou and chi sau found in CMA styles.

Basically it appears less complicated and what I am seeing is a greater concern with the actual training for fighting and more of a concern for application than history, lineage, or form. And to be honest if what I am beginning to think about FMA is correct it is rather refreshing and I like it.

Or is it that I simply have not seen enough or look at it long enough and I am missing the point completely?

Xue Sheng,

You are correct. This has been an issue when most from the masses of the Martial Arts Community find FMA. They see it and dismiss it as they do not have the "Honor" or "Art" or "Heritage" or what have you that they look for in the arts in general.

Many practictioners of the FMA fell into the religions of Catholism or Islam. Other still practices local rites as well, or along with their religion. The two ( religion and or beliefs and training to fight ) were kept separate and not made a requirment.

Many of the systems were the old man that survived teaching his nephews and or other younger men looking to fight. The Spanish outlawed the duels and the fights. It affected their crop production. Injured workers as less efficient or cannot work at all in the fields.

It became in many areas the arts of the thugs, and those with no to little education. So having a written requirement along with lots of memorization to do would get rid of the few students one might have anyways.

Even today if you ask those who are middle class here in the US of Filipino decent and or grew up in the Phillipines, many will say that TKD or Judo are the local Filipino Arts. It was not until recently last 40 to 50 years that things began to change a little. Dictator (president) Marcos did bring it back into the spot light by putting it into schools and colleges. Of course the history of this is more complicated and revolves around one of the arts I teach. Yet, in the South it was not always accepted.

Which gets us the North, Central and Southern regions of the PI. They spak different languages. They were upset with a common single language dictated by the Northern region, and many of the locals would speak English and not Tagalog when meeting others who did not speak their local language.

I mention the above because their was pride in the local areas, and there was no long running schools. Maybe for a few generations a family was known for its' fighting skills, but no real fomal schools that were found in other countries. So many times it was not about who you learned it from, but more about why it worked againnst so and so with this weapon and fighting style.

Continue checking out the FMA's, They will not interfer with your other studies for enlightenment. They will help you learn how they teach and use weapons, as well as empty hands.

Good Luck

 

[Cyriacus]

I dont do an FMA, but I adore alot of the Empty Hands FMA stuff. I love it. Its so direct, and straightforward.

Its a healthy set of systems to be interested in, as far as Im concerned. Anything else I could say, is said above.

 

[billc]

I have done kenpo, Iaido, tai chi, judo, and dabbled in aikido, shuai chiao, hsing-I and just about everything I could get my hands into. The fma do have their own history and stories, you just have to read it and investigate it. The interesting thing is that there are people who have trained with men who used the arts to kill and survive in combat, both as civilians and during the war with Japan. There are a lot of arts that can claim their teachers fought in violent competitions that were knock down drag out fights, but the fma have men who killed with their arts. I have heard stories about many of the masters of the different styles and the combat they were in and they are fascinating. If there are students of these arts, I hope they will relate some of those stories if not here, somewhere, so that these stories don't disapear into the ether. They are part of the fma's history and give a vitality to the art that is rare in other arts. World war 2 wasn't that long ago, and there are still people using the art to survive in the P.I.

As to two man drills vs. forms, I have done a lot of both in the arts I have done and I have to say, you don't miss not having forms in the fma. Much like boxing or kendo, or a few other arts, you are engaging other people in class in actual techniques from the start. Forms are unnecessary to learning combat technique, they are merely one way to try to teach technique.

I think if you want a comparison, think jazz music over classical music. The fma go at teaching through a "jazz" format, while say a style like traditional judo or karate have a more formal "classical" method of teaching their arts. I hope that helps. I find that your ability to adapt to a free flowing fighting situation happens more quickly through the fma process, at least in most of those arts, there may be exceptions.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Many practictioners of the FMA fell into the religions of Catholism or Islam. Other still practices local rites as well, or along with their religion. The two ( religion and or beliefs and training to fight ) were kept separate and not made a requirment.

It is not required in TCMA either, nor is it even talked about… if it is truly a traditional Chinese Martial Arts Class. However there are many that have been imposing spirituality on CMA mostly due to a misunderstanding in the translation as it applies to the word Spirit. TO the west that somehow got to spirituality but to the Chinese it means mind

Many of the systems were the old man that survived teaching his nephews and or other younger men looking to fight. The Spanish outlawed the duels and the fights. It affected their crop production. Injured workers as less efficient or cannot work at all in the fields.
It became in many areas the arts of the thugs, and those with no to little education. So having a written requirement along with lots of memorization to do would get rid of the few students one might have anyways.

I did not know that, thanks

Even today if you ask those who are middle class here in the US of Filipino decent and or grew up in the Phillipines, many will say that TKD or Judo are the local Filipino Arts. It was not until recently last 40 to 50 years that things began to change a little. Dictator (president) Marcos did bring it back into the spot light by putting it into schools and colleges. Of course the history of this is more complicated and revolves around one of the arts I teach. Yet, in the South it was not always accepted.

Hey a friend of mine from south china once invited me to his house to watch classical Chinese dance on TV. The dances were the Waltz, the Tango and various other Western dances

Which gets us the North, Central and Southern regions of the PI. They spak different languages. They were upset with a common single language dictated by the Northern region, and many of the locals would speak English and not Tagalog when meeting others who did not speak their local language.

I mention the above because their was pride in the local areas, and there was no long running schools. Maybe for a few generations a family was known for its' fighting skills, but no real fomal schools that were found in other countries. So many times it was not about who you learned it from, but more about why it worked againnst so and so with this weapon and fighting style.

Mandarin vs any other Chinese dialect, Northern CMA style vs Southern CMA styles, Internal CMA styles vs external CMA styles, Shaolin vs Wudang, etc. ctc. Etc.

Continue checking out the FMA's, They will not interfer with your other studies for enlightenment. They will help you learn how they teach and use weapons, as well as empty hands.

Good Luck

I am going to keep looking into it thanks for all the info. So far I like what I see and I have to admit I am a big fan of staff and stick for martial arts.


Rich, I may have more questions for you later in if that is ok with you

 

[Rich Parsons]

Rich, I may have more questions for you later in if that is ok with you

Just send them my way. If I cannot answer, I will do my best to point you to those who can.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

One of the things I love best about the FMA's is that they are concerned with effectiveness! There is history and tradition but.... they are not as important in most systems as is the training, technique and effectiveness of a system. If you have more questions Rich or I are more than happy to help out.