Five myths about millionaires

Big Don

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Five myths about millionaires
By John Steele Gordon, Published: September 23Washington Post EXCERPT:

This past week, President Obama tried to sell his new “millionaires’ tax” to the Rust Belt. “What’s great about this country is our belief that anyone can make it,” he said in Cincinnati on Thursday, praising “the idea that any one of us can open a business or have an idea that could make us millionaires.” But who are the millionaires Obama is talking about? And will a tax on them help the economy? Let’s examine a few presumptions about the man with the monocle on the Monopoly board.

1. Millionaires are rich.

Being rich has gotten more expensive. A $1 million fortune was unusual in the early 19th century. The word “millionaire” wasn’t even coined until 1827 by novelist (and future British prime minister) Benjamin Disraeli. In 1845, Moses Y. Beach, editor of the New York Sun, published a small pamphlet called “Wealth and Biography of the Wealthy Citizens of New York City.” The price of admission to Beach’s list, which was wildly popular, was a mere $100,000.

By the time the first Forbes 400 list of the richest people in America was published in 1982, the smallest fortune featured was $75 million. There has been so much wealth creation in the past 30 years — much of it thanks to the microprocessor behind modern-day fortunes such as Dell, Microsoft and Bloomberg — that only billionaires are on the list. Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest. That isn’t chump change, but it’s roughly equal to the 2010 median household income.

2. Millionaires think theyÂ’re rich.

“Rich,” like “poor,” is a relative term. A family living on the American median income of $50,000 a year might think that one living on $500,000 is rich. But that second family, which probably knows families far better off than they are, thinks that you need $5 million a year to be truly rich, and so on.

On Thursday, 44 percent of people voting in an online survey as part of the GOP debate coverage said that a $1 million annual income made a person “rich.” In a 2008 survey of affluent Chicago households, only 22 percent thought a nest egg of $1 million was rich. In March, four out of 10 millionaires surveyed by Fidelity Investments said they do not feel rich. That same month, a majority of investment advisers surveyed in a Scottrade poll said that $1 million isn’t enough for retirement.
<<<SNIP>>>

5. Obama’s “millionaires’ tax” won’t seriously limit investment.

That’s the line of reasoning that the administration is using. On Monday, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told reporters that the president’s plan wouldn’t hurt growth. “I am very confident that the modest changes we’re suggesting in terms of revenues .&#8201;.&#8201;. would make the economy stronger in the long term, not weaker in the long term,” he said.

Geithner’s confidence is somewhat misplaced. According to a 2001 congressional study that confirmed a basic tenet of macroeconomics, “each $1 of marginal tax rate cuts would save the private economy at least $1.25 as deadweight losses fall and economic efficiency increases.” Taxes distort investment decisions. Why throw money into productive assets — corporate securities, a rental property or new employees for a small business — if the income they generate will be taxed away?

Taxes on the rich are taxes on people who create jobs. And jobs are an unalloyed good thing for an economy. Excessively taxing the capital that makes the economy go is poor public policy. And we have a recent example of how the opposite works well: Unemployment declined by a third in the four years after the Bush tax cuts were fully implemented in 2003, dropping to 4.2 percent from 6.2 percent. Meanwhile, federal revenue increased 44 percent in those years. If these tax cuts put people to work and generated money for the government, shouldnÂ’t Obama consider the possibility that tax increases should be avoided?
 

Monroe

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In your article, it states the average househole income is $50k in the US. Whether a millionaire feels rich or not, they are rich compared to the average American.
 

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Maybe, but the millionaires currently pay more than the poor.


Source: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09in35tr.xls
2009 - money amounts are in thousands of dollars
# people filing $500,000 or more: 726,003
Amount paid in taxes in 2009: $261,809,484
Avg taxes paid per person: $360

# people filing less than $500,000: 103,438,967
Amount paid in taxes in 2009: $4,185,410,894
Avg taxes paid per person: $6.69

Millionaires Club ($1M or more in reported income: 235,665
paid $182,369,749
Avg: $774

People under $50k/yr: 56,787,026
Paid: $92,555,070
Avg: $1.63

So the 'rich' who are outnumbered by the 'poor' by 241:1, paid just under twice what the poor did.
That's more than their 'fair share'.

Follow the chart lines over, and you'll see that those in the higher earning brackets consistently pay higher %'s than those in the poor levels.
 

seasoned

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In your article, it states the average household income is $50k in the US. Whether a millionaire feels rich or not, they are rich compared to the average American.
Millionaires live a different life style then the average household, but, in comparison, they have the same expenditures as you or I. Maybe on a higher level, but still the same bills in comparison. Just saying................ not defending.
 

Monroe

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Millionaires live a different life style then the average household, but, in comparison, they have the same expenditures as you or I. Maybe on a higher level, but still the same bills in comparison. Just saying................ not defending.

Yeah I get that. I have friends and family from a wide range of income levels. And we're not doing horribly. I'm not sure how a family could actually pay bills on $50k/year. I don't expect those families to pay the same percentage in taxes that we do.
 

Monroe

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Maybe, but the millionaires currently pay more than the poor.


Source: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/09in35tr.xls
2009 - money amounts are in thousands of dollars
# people filing $500,000 or more: 726,003
Amount paid in taxes in 2009: $261,809,484
Avg taxes paid per person: $360

# people filing less than $500,000: 103,438,967
Amount paid in taxes in 2009: $4,185,410,894
Avg taxes paid per person: $6.69

Millionaires Club ($1M or more in reported income: 235,665
paid $182,369,749
Avg: $774

People under $50k/yr: 56,787,026
Paid: $92,555,070
Avg: $1.63

So the 'rich' who are outnumbered by the 'poor' by 241:1, paid just under twice what the poor did.
That's more than their 'fair share'.

Follow the chart lines over, and you'll see that those in the higher earning brackets consistently pay higher %'s than those in the poor levels.

I'd have sympathy if the income gap between the rich and poor weren't growing so extreme.

Side note: How does anyone live on $50k/yr with kids? I mean, I lived on $29k when I was a single 20yo. But I had a flat mates and no tv and got deals on rent. They must live somewhere with a low cost of living because you'd need some subsidies to survive in any cities I've lived in.
 

Bob Hubbard

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I've lived comfortably on under $10k per year, but that's in Buffalo. You can't get a happy meal for that in some towns.
The gap might be extreme, but the rate at new 'millionaires' being made is also increasing I hear, though I don't have those figures on hand right now.
 

granfire

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I'd have sympathy if the income gap between the rich and poor weren't growing so extreme.

Side note: How does anyone live on $50k/yr with kids? I mean, I lived on $29k when I was a single 20yo. But I had a flat mates and no tv and got deals on rent. They must live somewhere with a low cost of living because you'd need some subsidies to survive in any cities I've lived in.

Around here 50k is top notch income!
Most make due with between 10k and 20k....
 

Tez3

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Around here 50k is top notch income!
Most make due with between 10k and 20k....

Yep thats the same here only it's ÂŁ10k and ÂŁ20k which is less than dollars.
 

Tez3

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are you sure? I had the pound slightly higher than the dollar.

Expedia conversion rates today
10,000.00 GBP = 15,795.00 USD
Exchange rate: 1.579500
Rate valid as of: 26/9/2011
 

Flying Crane

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Five myths about millionaires

Taxes on the rich are taxes on people who create jobs. And jobs are an unalloyed good thing for an economy. Excessively taxing the capital that makes the economy go is poor public policy.

except that it isn't capital, in the business sense. This is personal income, i.e. wages, salary, earnings, that becomes the personal income of an individual. It's his take-home pay. We all have an obligation to pay taxes on our earnings/take-home pay.

This is money that, even if he is a business owner, will not go to re-investment in the business. If it did, it would be categorized as a business expense, and would not be his personal income. He wouldn't pay personal income tax on it, as a business expense.

It's a mischaracterization to say that the wealthy would take that money and invest it in the business and use it to hire workers and stimulate the economy. They don't. This is their earnings that belongs to them. They use it to buy luxury items, or save or invest it, or simply blow it. But the fact that they are wealthy means they are saving far more of it than they are blowing.

They can pay taxes on it. It won't hurt them, it won't put them in the poor house, it's not unfair. NOT paying taxes on it will not stimulate the economy.
 

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Five myths about millionaires
1. Millionaires are rich.

Being rich has gotten more expensive. A $1 million fortune was unusual in the early 19th century. The word &#8220;millionaire&#8221; wasn&#8217;t even coined until 1827 by novelist (and future British prime minister) Benjamin Disraeli. In 1845, Moses Y. Beach, editor of the New York Sun, published a small pamphlet called &#8220;Wealth and Biography of the Wealthy Citizens of New York City.&#8221; The price of admission to Beach&#8217;s list, which was wildly popular, was a mere $100,000.

By the time the first Forbes 400 list of the richest people in America was published in 1982, the smallest fortune featured was $75 million. There has been so much wealth creation in the past 30 years &#8212; much of it thanks to the microprocessor behind modern-day fortunes such as Dell, Microsoft and Bloomberg &#8212; that only billionaires are on the list. Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest. That isn&#8217;t chump change, but it&#8217;s roughly equal to the 2010 median household income.

Compared to the vast vast majority of Americans, they are rich. There is such a gap between them and the average household income, that it's laughable. The working class and middle classes pay their taxes and pull their weight. The wealthy can do likewise.

2. Millionaires think they&#8217;re rich.

So what? Everyone believes they should be making more than they are, everyone believes they don't have enough. That's true from the poor all the way up to the rich. They don't THINK they are rich? Again, So What? See answer above: compared to the vast vast majority of Americans, they are way way far out ahead. They can pay their fair share.
 

Flying Crane

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Five myths about millionaires
By John Steele Gordon, Published: September 23Washington Post EXCERPT:

This past week, President Obama tried to sell his new &#8220;millionaires&#8217; tax&#8221; to the Rust Belt. &#8220;What&#8217;s great about this country is our belief that anyone can make it,&#8221; he said in Cincinnati on Thursday, praising &#8220;the idea that any one of us can open a business or have an idea that could make us millionaires.&#8221; But who are the millionaires Obama is talking about? And will a tax on them help the economy? Let&#8217;s examine a few presumptions about the man with the monocle on the Monopoly board.

1. Millionaires are rich.

Being rich has gotten more expensive. A $1 million fortune was unusual in the early 19th century. The word &#8220;millionaire&#8221; wasn&#8217;t even coined until 1827 by novelist (and future British prime minister) Benjamin Disraeli. In 1845, Moses Y. Beach, editor of the New York Sun, published a small pamphlet called &#8220;Wealth and Biography of the Wealthy Citizens of New York City.&#8221; The price of admission to Beach&#8217;s list, which was wildly popular, was a mere $100,000.

By the time the first Forbes 400 list of the richest people in America was published in 1982, the smallest fortune featured was $75 million. There has been so much wealth creation in the past 30 years &#8212; much of it thanks to the microprocessor behind modern-day fortunes such as Dell, Microsoft and Bloomberg &#8212; that only billionaires are on the list. Today, $1 million in the bank generates only about $50,000 per year in interest. That isn&#8217;t chump change, but it&#8217;s roughly equal to the 2010 median household income.

2. Millionaires think they&#8217;re rich.

&#8220;Rich,&#8221; like &#8220;poor,&#8221; is a relative term. A family living on the American median income of $50,000 a year might think that one living on $500,000 is rich. But that second family, which probably knows families far better off than they are, thinks that you need $5 million a year to be truly rich, and so on.

On Thursday, 44 percent of people voting in an online survey as part of the GOP debate coverage said that a $1 million annual income made a person &#8220;rich.&#8221; In a 2008 survey of affluent Chicago households, only 22 percent thought a nest egg of $1 million was rich. In March, four out of 10 millionaires surveyed by Fidelity Investments said they do not feel rich. That same month, a majority of investment advisers surveyed in a Scottrade poll said that $1 million isn&#8217;t enough for retirement.
<<<SNIP>>>

5. Obama&#8217;s &#8220;millionaires&#8217; tax&#8221; won&#8217;t seriously limit investment.

That&#8217;s the line of reasoning that the administration is using. On Monday, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told reporters that the president&#8217;s plan wouldn&#8217;t hurt growth. &#8220;I am very confident that the modest changes we&#8217;re suggesting in terms of revenues .&#8201;.&#8201;. would make the economy stronger in the long term, not weaker in the long term,&#8221; he said.

Geithner&#8217;s confidence is somewhat misplaced. According to a 2001 congressional study that confirmed a basic tenet of macroeconomics, &#8220;each $1 of marginal tax rate cuts would save the private economy at least $1.25 as deadweight losses fall and economic efficiency increases.&#8221; Taxes distort investment decisions. Why throw money into productive assets &#8212; corporate securities, a rental property or new employees for a small business &#8212; if the income they generate will be taxed away?

Taxes on the rich are taxes on people who create jobs. And jobs are an unalloyed good thing for an economy. Excessively taxing the capital that makes the economy go is poor public policy. And we have a recent example of how the opposite works well: Unemployment declined by a third in the four years after the Bush tax cuts were fully implemented in 2003, dropping to 4.2 percent from 6.2 percent. Meanwhile, federal revenue increased 44 percent in those years. If these tax cuts put people to work and generated money for the government, shouldn&#8217;t Obama consider the possibility that tax increases should be avoided?

I see the title says, FIVE Myths about millionaires. What happened to numbers Three and Four? Not worth including here? They somehow don't support your agenda so you didn't want to include them?
 

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How about the 51% that consume but don't contribute much pull their weight?

How much more should the "rich" (now defined as everyone earning over $200k) chip in?

If mr gotbucks wants to spend his earnings on a personal pleasure palace, that's his business. Not ours.
But all the 'rich should carry their own weight' folks think that taxing rich more is going to help them out.

Really? You think if the IRS gets an extra couple billion in taxes it'll find its way to the 'poor'?
It'll get lost in the 60% fraud in Medicade/Medicare, the 75% waste in the Hospital system, the 55% waste in the Social Services system, that driver for Senator MucknFuss, or a nice downtown office for Rep. superbitch that costs $15,000 a month in rent.

Now Mr. Gotbucks buys that floating pleasure palace, it creates jobs, it preserves jobs, it boosts the economy directly.
How?
Someone has to plan that palace.
Somone has to manage the project.
Someones (plural) have to source the materials.
People need to be hired to build the components that make up the palace, then other people need to be hired to put them all together to make the palace.
In the end, 4 unwed mothers from east no-where can quit their dead end jobs at Larrys Striporama to be regulars on the palaces 4 gold plated pole cages for when Mr. GotBucks entertains Mr. Lotsdoughtoblo.

I support the filthy rich getting even filthier.
Because damn it, I care about the children.


This message paid for out of the Hubbard/Leader 2012 Pizza Party budget and an Amex card we found at Costco.
:D
 

Bob Hubbard

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I see the title says, FIVE Myths about millionaires. What happened to numbers Three and Four? Not worth including here? They somehow don't support your agenda so you didn't want to include them?

MT policy and US copyright law limits the amount of an article that can be reported.
 

Bob Hubbard

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Just to make my position clear, if I were to find myself among the 'filthy rich', I'd set up Bob's home for hot wayward girls. A private harem of sorts, isolated from the outside world, where they can live, play, and receive the best training, tutoring and personal care instruction possible. I think I'd do better with my money in buying them thongs to wear than giving it to the IRS who would just waste it on cheap blue suits and unpolarized sunglasses.
(This is half serious, half sarcastic btw.)
 

Flying Crane

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How about the 51% that consume but don't contribute much pull their weight?

How much more should the "rich" (now defined as everyone earning over $200k) chip in?

If mr gotbucks wants to spend his earnings on a personal pleasure palace, that's his business. Not ours.
But all the 'rich should carry their own weight' folks think that taxing rich more is going to help them out.

Really? You think if the IRS gets an extra couple billion in taxes it'll find its way to the 'poor'?
It'll get lost in the 60% fraud in Medicade/Medicare, the 75% waste in the Hospital system, the 55% waste in the Social Services system, that driver for Senator MucknFuss, or a nice downtown office for Rep. superbitch that costs $15,000 a month in rent.

Now Mr. Gotbucks buys that floating pleasure palace, it creates jobs, it preserves jobs, it boosts the economy directly.
How?
Someone has to plan that palace.
Somone has to manage the project.
Someones (plural) have to source the materials.
People need to be hired to build the components that make up the palace, then other people need to be hired to put them all together to make the palace.
In the end, 4 unwed mothers from east no-where can quit their dead end jobs at Larrys Striporama to be regulars on the palaces 4 gold plated pole cages for when Mr. GotBucks entertains Mr. Lotsdoughtoblo.

I support the filthy rich getting even filthier.
Because damn it, I care about the children.


This message paid for out of the Hubbard/Leader 2012 Pizza Party budget and an Amex card we found at Costco.
:D

They can do all that AND still pay their fair share in taxes. As do the rest of us good Patriotic Americans.
 

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