EPAK reunification

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Why won't EPAK ever reunite under one association?

Because whenever EPAK people disagree with each other they run off and form a new association, start a new school, or go post on another forum. That's why.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[MartialArtsGuy]

OFK


Another reason could be that some want to be the big man in chagre and make good money, and if they cant do that in one association, they will make one were they can.

Another reason could be that an individual could have an idea for how they can innovate kenpo and when their ideas meet resistance in their own org. they start their own where those who think alike can join them.

Those two reasons will be my little contribution to the thread.

Greed, ego, arrogance- in kenpo the dark side are they.

 

[Michael Billings]

... shame on me. Burned twice, shame on you.

There have been a lot of Associations come and gone in the 13+ years since Mr. Parker's leaving us. Not all have been honorable, but most have. Not all did what they said they would do, but most tried.

Individuals who are fairly high ranking now got their base second or even third hand. The loyalty they feel is to their instructors, not necessarily an "Association" floating out there somewhere. Especially the ones that don't have camps, or reach out to their membership. I see this as related to the "learning your Kenpo at seminars", trend that has been forced on a lot of people.

When people look at others and see the strife, arguing, politics, or just don't see the "relationship", or they don't feel the "family" of the extended Kenpo family, it is hard to create what they have never known. It is tough when you see others much higher ranking, and your teachers are better than them, and lower ranking. It is hard when you expect something from an individual representative of an Association, or the Association managment, and you do not get it.

Lots and Lots of reasons why the System is evolving under so many different people. You could liken it to the breakdown of the nuclear family, as has occurred in the later half of the 20th century, and continues into the 21st.

"And all the king's horses, and all the king's men, couldn't put Kenpo together again."

... sadley,
-Michael

 

[Ender]

Originally posted by MartialArtsGuy
OFK


Another reason could be that some want to be the big man in chagre and make good money, and if they cant do that in one association, they will make one were they can.

Another reason could be that an individual could have an idea for how they can innovate kenpo and when their ideas meet resistance in their own org. they start their own where those who think alike can join them.

Those two reasons will be my little contribution to the thread.

Greed, ego, arrogance- in kenpo the dark side are they.

*l we prolly should let the women run things. They tend to have less ego and arrogance issues.

 

[Marcus Buonfiglio]

Originally posted by Ender
*l we prolly should let the women run things. They tend to have less ego and arrogance issues.

Robin Williams once quipped that "The president should be a woman! There would be no more wars...but one week out of the month there would be some very intense negotiations...:argue:

Not that I believe that mind you since in the 21 years I have been married I have never experienced anything to substantiate that belief

 

[Fastmover]

Originally posted by Marcus Buonfiglio
but one week out of the month there would be some very intense negotiations...:argue:

Marcus,

One week a month!!!!!!!!! Ive been married for 17 years and I can tell you, she is in charge 31 days a month. I lost a long time ago!!!! LOL!!!

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by Fastmover
Marcus,

One week a month!!!!!!!!! Ive been married for 17 years and I can tell you, she is in charge 31 days a month. I lost a long time ago!!!! LOL!!!

:rofl: :rofl:
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!



Your very married Brother
John

 

[Les]

Originally posted by Ender
we should let the women run things.

The IKKA has been run by a woman, Mrs Parker, for many years.

She has had her supporters, and her critics. Would it have been any different if a man ran the association? I don't think so.

Personally, I think Mrs Parker has done her level best to do a difficult job in a difficult situation.

Les

 

[MisterMike]

Just some questions,

1. Why do we need any one organization to lead all of Kenpo?
2. If I had a school, why would I feel compelled to join an organization?
3. If I had a school and a method of teaching, why would I need to have approval/acceptance by some global body?
4. Did they have organizations at any level over the arts back in the early days? Why do we need them in these times?

Now my piece,

If you feel better being part of an organization, then you should join one.
If you feel you would meet more people and ideas by joining one, then you probably should.
If you think that the publicity would make you more money by hosting seminars through this organization, I guess that's your perogative.
If all it leads to is political bickering, then it probably isn't worth the time.

It seems that the higher you get to the top, the further you get from the practitioners. You may get to parade around the country and sign a lot of photos but I would say beware of straying too far from what Kenpo is all about.

 

[Michael Billings]

Well, we all have opinions.

-Michael

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by MisterMike
Just some questions,

1. Why do we need any one organization to lead all of Kenpo?

By having an umbrella so to speak that you can be under, rather than having 'X' number of smaller groups doing what they want, you can have the same groups all doing the same thing, teaching the same way, and all following the same ideas.

2. If I had a school, why would I feel compelled to join an organization?

You dont have to. By doing so, you have the chance to have a large body that can sanction the way things are done. You also have the chance to be a part of functions that are held by the org. It also might give some credibility to your school as far as a potential new student goes.

3. If I had a school and a method of teaching, why would I need to have approval/acceptance by some global body?

Again, the idea of the org. is to have some order to the way things are done. Again, its just an option.

4. Did they have organizations at any level over the arts back in the early days? Why do we need them in these times?

Dont really know. I'm sure that there was some sort of org. but was it like it is today? Not sure.

Mike

 

[MisterMike]

I can see a few perks to it. I guess it is my conservative nature. Unless I see true reason and benefit I'm a little resistant to change.

Thanks!

 

[rmcrobertson]

Well, let's see what I can say to honk folks off. I know! I'll repeat myself.

1. There never was any unification in kenpo. Or in other martial arts. The notion that we now should unify, based on the Garden of Eden fantasy of the past especially, is a fantasy.

2. It's not going to happen.

3. Good thing, too, given the nature of the folks who seem to be pushing for unification.

4. Kenpo boot camp?!...no, I better not.

5. I can't tell you how happy these conversations make me that, while I assuredly don't know all that much, I know enough that I can train, and learn, and teach effectively, in my back yard if need be.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Well, let's see what I can say to honk folks off. I know! I'll repeat myself.

1. There never was any unification in kenpo. Or in other martial arts. The notion that we now should unify, based on the Garden of Eden fantasy of the past especially, is a fantasy.

2. It's not going to happen.

3. Good thing, too, given the nature of the folks who seem to be pushing for unification.

4. Kenpo boot camp?!...no, I better not.

5. I can't tell you how happy these conversations make me that, while I assuredly don't know all that much, I know enough that I can train, and learn, and teach effectively, in my back yard if need be.

Yeah, I suppose, but if you look at it on the other hand, maybe if there was someone to take over for Parker, there would not be all the chaos that there is today. Look at Small Circle Juijitsu. Wally Jay left his son and another person in charge of his art after he passes. When Parker passed, everybody went their separte ways, and is doing their own thing, which is fine, but maybe you would not have all the fighting about the silly things, like the big 16/24/32 debate. Who cares how many techs are being taught? The number should not be the issue. Its all Parker no matter what. What should really matter is can you make the techs. work?

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

Oh for...

Do you honestly think that Back In The Good Old Days, Nobody Behaved Pettily?

By some standards, things have improved. None of the most-senior people in the art have died in San Quentin, where there were fairly-properly sent for getting one of their black belts to try killing two old people with a screwdriver. (Which, I've felt, speaks volumes about Mr. Mitose's skill as either a martial artist or a teacher...one survived.)

Not to mention the idea of royalty, and transmission of teachings and head-of-style status by birth...it's the Star Wars sickness (we inherit our place in life), and as an American, I object.

Another name for chaos is, "creative ferment." Let a thousand flowers bloom.

Tonight's aphorism: anybody who seeks power shouldn't be allowed to have it...

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Oh for...

Do you honestly think that Back In The Good Old Days, Nobody Behaved Pettily?

I"m sure they did. Only difference now is that it is worse.

Not to mention the idea of royalty, and transmission of teachings and head-of-style status by birth...it's the Star Wars sickness (we inherit our place in life), and as an American, I object.

Well, look at it this way. If there was someone left to take things over, maybe you'd have less chiefs and more indians.

Mike

 

[Seig]

I think this issue is very clouded. The issue is not who is or is not best qualified to lead Kenpo. The issue is that we are living in the age of non-accountability. I am sure that Mr. Billings and even Mr. Robertson can agree with me on this. We are living in a time when people are taught that failure is not their fault. We live in a society that perpetuates people without basic skills being passed in schools to the next grade so as not to hurt their egos. Then the teacher is blamed for the person not learning. This translates into everything. What I see that has happened is that a lot of very talented and intelligent people that were all taught the same basic things in different ways (based on their strengths) have different perspectives. Unfortunately, while most of them are personally friends, the professional relationships all but disintegrated. One person gets mad at a peer and instead of examining the why or the how (does this sound like someone we know?) they leave and join/form their own assosciation. The down side is the constant bickering and urinary olympiads and the good old genitalia measuring contests. The plus side is that no matter what your strength or interest, their is an assosciation/senior out there that can and will suit your needs. I joined the IKKO, not because I felt the need personally for the organization, but because I wanted to be a student of Mr. Conatser. As a result, my students have come under that umbrella which has made me a better teacher and helped me to help them greatly improve their skills. Could I have done this under Mr. Mill or Mr. Tatum, ad infinum. Sure, but I found the group that was most in line with my methods and way of thinking. Should we let a woman run Kenpo? If she has her own Organization, sure why not? Will all of AK ever reunify? Nope. Can't happen. Instead of reunification (we are not romulans) we should be looking for open communications and brotherhood and in a lot of respects this is already happening.

 

[True2Kenpo]

Originally posted by Seig
Instead of reunification (we are not romulans) we should be looking for open communications and brotherhood and in a lot of respects this is already happening.

I feel that Mr. Seigel has stated the most important thing... we must try to create open lines of communication and if you look throughout the Kenpo community, this is happening already... take for example the recent Homecoming Camp or the Boston Internationals.

Unity does exist, just in different ways. I have attended many training camps from Mr. Cappi's, to Mr. Speakman's, to even Mr. Mills, and each time I am greeted with respect and acceptance as a Kenpo practicioner.

In the end, that is all we are... students of the Art, no matter what affiliations or non-affiliations. We might choose one association to link to more than another, but we all can learn from each other...

Respectfully,
Joshua Ryer

 

[rmcrobertson]

Ah, the fantasy that Once Upon A Time things were perfect!

Behind all these demands for, "unity," I smell the will-to-power.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Ah, the fantasy that Once Upon A Time things were perfect!

Behind all these demands for, "unity," I smell the will-to-power. I smell the desire to find Dad. I smell the longing for what never was.