Distance Learning (Shorite Ryu Tai Jutsu and ICKA Kenpo).

[arnisador]

Anyone have any experience with this style? The current Black Belt has an article on it as well as a large ad for its distance learning program. The ad definitely seems to be pushing the idea that one can learn this "complex" art, based on Chin-na, by video. (See http://www.victorioushands.com/ for more info.) I am of course somewhat suspect.

Apparently the founder is Dr. Christian Harfouche, who considers the art "an evangelistic tool" of his International Christian Karate Association.

Black Belt seems to be getting worse and worse about tie-ins between its ads and the articles. This article and the one for ICKA Kenpo (I think it's a coincidence that the acronyms are the same), also strongly pushing video testing and hailing its many benefits, seemed guilty of that. The Kenpo article, on Chuck Sullivan and Vic LeRoux, included highlighted boxes on how great video learning and testing are. This is in the article not the ad. (See http://www.karateconnection.com/ for more info.) I suspect not everyone would even agree with their definition of the art:

The System taught is Kenpo Karate, a Chinese Style, which since its introduction to the United States by Ed Parker, is often referred to as American Kenpo.

It makes it sound as if Ed Parker only brought the art here and publicized it, as Robert Trias did. Mr. Trias made great contributions and I don't mean to slight them, but Mr. Parker modified and codified what he was taught, hence the name change.

 

[arnisador]

http://www.adrianroman.com/

RECEIVE YOUR BLACK BELT TODAY.

Also advertised in this month's black belt. The ad says what's above, plus "Franchises Available!" It makes me want to ask:

Who will chase the moneychangers from my temple?!?

Continuing:
http://www.adrianroman.com/Distant_learning.htm

Grandmaster Roman has eliminated the hassles, time restraints, and major costs in obtaining a certified Black Belt. As a former school owner, it was necessary to keep a student in the school environment for 4 or 5 years to pay the overhead. The transfer of knowledge is easily done in 365 day or less by concentrating on the material rather than being your physical drill instructor. So, what we are selling is time and convenience to you. What is 4 years of your life worth by not having to go to a local martial arts school 2 or 3 times a week. Don’t you feel it’s about time you got your Black Belt?

 

[arnisador]

Shorite Ryu Tai Jutsu appears in the Budo International that's on the stands now (#14, dated January 2003 (sic)). It's inescapable!

That issue also says that Jim Wagner's friend Chris St.-Jacques will teach the secret techniques of Canadian Bodyguards. Ah, those deadly Canadians...known world-wide for their brutal martial arts.

 

[donald]

I thought that chin na is a area of study in the chinese martial arts, like say grafting in EPAK systems?

:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Lets put the "marketing" a side for now.

We've all seen his ads. Based on his pictures and articles, does he appear to really "know" martial arts?

Heres some articles.
http://www.victorioushands.com/default.asp?ID=8

All I can really say is that I've read some of his articles. I'm an in-fighter and he appears to be as well. I respond to infighting well and (based on the pics) his execution has merit.

The flashy high kicks he does, I would try but the Jujutsu is not bad.

Has anyone seen him in person?

:asian:

 

[Brother John]

I was intriqued by the articles long before I found out about the distance learning.
What he has to say in the articles is worth some consideration. Sounds like some credible people find Dr. Harfouche to be, well.... very credible.
I'm curious about anyone else's experiences.

Your Brother
John

 

[James Kovacich]

Brother John, I couldn't of said it better!

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

http://www.brooknet.com/oyama/

 

[arnisador]

Christian Harfouche is on the cover of Inside Kung Fu now. Sheesh! He's everywhere.

 

[James Kovacich]

Christian Harfouche is on the cover of Inside Kung Fu now. Sheesh! He's everywhere.

Maybe he's for real. :asian:

 

[arnisador]

Could be, but he's sure pushing the video learning something fierce. That's the thing that I'm talking about.

 

[tkdguy1982]

I have never heard of that style at all. Or tried it either.

 

[James Kovacich]

Could be, but he's sure pushing the video learning something fierce. That's the thing that I'm talking about.

I hear ya bro! He came out with even another video series Full Body Boxing.
I think if he's not rich yet, he's probably damn near it.

:asian:

 

[Pacificshore]

Dosen't Harfouche have a link to David German, thus his link to the Kenpo line?

 

[donald]

Yes he is a high ranking black belt in Mr.German's TAI system. I think that is where he also picked up his Chin-Na connection? I too would like to get some first hand info on the man, and his system. :asian:

 

[arnisador]

I saw an article in the August Inside Kung Fu featuring Christian Harfouche and his system. There was a warning at the beginning, saying the techniques pictured should only be practiced under the "supervision of a qualified martial arts professional" etc. This was quite amusing to me, since he markets his system as a distance learning system!

 

[Mark Weiser]

Okay getting the can opener and putting on the boxing gloves LOL!

Anyway I am a IKCA member, however let first state I maybe a member but have never tested for Rank, with the IKCA. For some reason I know the Materials but never got the itch to video tape and send it in lol.

I am as well as others I have spoken with after being with IKCA either as a member or training under an IKCA Instructor find something lacking. We usually venture outside of IKCA to fill in the gaps. IKCA only has 55 Techs with a Master Form that has to be done in under 3 mintues with only two mistakes allowed per belt level. now considering that there are only 6 belt levels at 2 mistakes each = 12 errors which accounts for 20-22% of the entire system could either be forgotten or omitted. Now guys and gals would your Instructor allow you to pass your Black Belt test with that percentage of omission?

I have stated before I study under James Ibaro and Others in order to fill in those gaps.

LOL just a side note I know this maybe a matter of great debate. I spoke with Vic on the phone and he said my training in Kenpo was invalid and my black belt is invalid I should throw it in the trash. Honest he told me that lol.

I will never forget it. I was shocked at the statement. I do not know what the problem with Dragon Kenpo since it incorporates Grappling and Holds with Kenpo?

Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser

 

[bdparsons]

Mr. Weiser,

As an IKCA practitioner myself may I speak to a couple of misconceptions you seem to hold concerning the IKCA Curriculum.

Anyway I am a IKCA member, however let first state I maybe a member but have never tested for Rank, with the IKCA. For some reason I know the Materials but never got the itch to video tape and send it in lol.

Congratulations on taking the initiative to learn what is on the tapes, now take the next step and find out if you've learned it correctly. The testing portion of the program is where many folks choose not to continue with the IKCA. The failure rate of tests that are sent in is about 2.5-3 out of every 5 tests. Taping the test is easy, passing it is not as easy as it sounds. It should also be noted that Mr. Sullivan clearly states on the preview video that the material on the tapes is only half the sysytem. From the IKCA website: The video training tapes themselves, are only half of the program. The other half is the one-on-one relationship we have with our students, through interactive video. During the video critique/lesson process the remainder of the material in the curriculum is taught.

I am as well as others I have spoken with after being with IKCA either as a member or training under an IKCA Instructor find something lacking. We usually venture outside of IKCA to fill in the gaps.

Although "lacking" is a term I would be adverse to using, I would point out that it's also stated that the goal of the IKCA Sysytem is to give an individual a strong base sysytem upon which they are encouraged to build. This particular statement is made by Mr. Sullivan on one of the tapes. Having said that, I personally have found (along with other IKCA practitioners) that as the system "cures" and "settles" with me there is much more in the system than is first realized. Does the IKCA system have everything? No. Find me a system that does. Does the IKCA have more than what some people give it credit for? Absolutely.

IKCA only has 55 Techs with a Master Form that has to be done in under 3 mintues with only two mistakes allowed per belt level. now considering that there are only 6 belt levels at 2 mistakes each = 12 errors which accounts for 20-22% of the entire system could either be forgotten or omitted. Now guys and gals would your Instructor allow you to pass your Black Belt test with that percentage of omission?

Sorry to have to point this out, but you have a gross misunderstanding of just one portion of the testing process of the IKCA. Your assertion is that you are allowed to make errors on individual techniques as a whole, this is not the case.

From the IKCA website once again on the page of IKCA Bylaws, Rank, item 8D:

D. Errors are as follows:

1a. An omitted movement such as a block, strike, maneuver, stance change, leg or hand check.

2a. A strike or kick that obviously misses the target, such as a ball kick to the groin that doesn't rise above the knee.

3a. Over-extended movements that take themselves too far beyond the circle of protection.

4a. An incorrect angle of direction for an entire technique or any portion of a technique.

5a. A general lack of snap or power.

Now guys and gals, you might want to do the math again, keeping in mind that we're just talking about one form here.

I spoke with Vic on the phone and he said my training in Kenpo was invalid and my black belt is invalid I should throw it in the trash. Honest he told me that lol. i will never forget it. I was shocked at the statement. I do not know what the problem with Dragon Kenpo since it incorporates Grappling and Holds with Kenpo?

Mr. LeRoux calls it like it is. Why don't you send in a few tests and prove him wrong? Might be an eye-opener.

Bill Parsons
Triangle Kenpo Institute

 

[Mark Weiser]

Well thank you Mr. Parsons:

I have been around the IKCA for a number of years my first IKCA number was 19357 way back and then dropped out for awhile due to the school I was attending closed its doors. It seems that a few IKCA schools due this or is it common among other Kenpo Schools?

I just wrote Vic an email yesterday about an incident that occurred within the IKCA and I was upset maybe I was looking at the problem with my heart and not with my head hmmm?

Anyway if I offended you or any other IKCA member I apologize afterall we are all human and do stupid stuff lol. I wrote an e-mail to Vic apologizing for this incident as well.

Sincerely,

Mark E. Weiser

 

[gusano]

Thats Hilarious! "Online Training", 3 month white belt course for $90 plus "testing fee"! I've seen funnier ones though. Like, "take advantage of our 'accelerated learning technology' and you can kill anyone in a week". It's all a bunch of B.S. You are better off just going to the local karate store and buying a black belt. It's alot cheaper and you don't even have to waste your time watching worthless videos. The scary thing is that someone will do this and then think they can defend themselves.