Disgusted with Political Process

[Ping898]

There is another thread just started on Australia about a law requiring those registered to vote and it just got me thinking just how distgusted I am with what is being done to win elections these days with relation to political ads. In the state I live in there has been a nasty battle between the incumbent and the new guy. And some of the ads I've seen here or read about in other states are just disgusting. I wish I could find the article I was reading but I can't but it mentioned an ad in NY I think that suggested the person currently in office allowed workers to call sex phone numbers on government time and money. The reporter apparently investigated the allegation for the article and found that 1 time a worker called a sex number by mistake in an attempt to call the atty general misdialed (the numbers were apparently similar). This is just one example, but everytime I turn around it seems that it is getting worse and worse and what scares me is people believe whatever they see, that these ads do have an impact, which means we'll see more ads like them, not less.

It is those 529 groups that seem the worst, although the politicians themselves aren't much better.

I know many people on this board as dusgusted with the whole regeme or politics in general, but are those not jaded finding themselves more and more disgusted with what people think it takes to win an election these days?

 

[Andrew Green]

Throughout history every system that has been put up eventually failed as it outgrew itself, the current one will be no different IMO. We are already starting to see some big cracks.

And I fully agree with you, we get some US television up here, and the campaign ads are brutal, Ours can get nasty, but not on that level.

 

[CoryKS]

Throughout history every system that has been put up eventually failed as it outgrew itself, the current one will be no different IMO. We are already starting to see some big cracks.

And I fully agree with you, we get some US television up here, and the campaign ads are brutal, Ours can get nasty, but not on that level.

I dunno. I don't think we're outgrowing the system, I just think we have a large minority that are willing to scrap it because they aren't getting the outcome they want. As far as the mudslinging goes, it's to be expected with any process that relies on a popularity contest to determine results. Especially when the topic is "dry" as politics typically is.

 

[michaeledward]

Yes, Ping898, it was a mis-dialed number from a hotel room. The last seven digits of the phone numbers were identical, only the area code was different. It was a 1 minute long phone call, that total $1.25 on the hotel bill submitted as an expense report. Immediately after the phone call to the sex line (which lasted one minute) there was a call to a government office at the correct area code.

A truly silly argument - but, it might work.

In Virginia, there are attacks on the character of Candidate Webb, because of words he wrote in a book of fiction. The book describes actual behavior in the far east - which is pretty wierd. But it's a book of fiction. Never mind the pornography written by Newt Gingrich or Lynn Cheney. It's just a mud-slinging contest.

I believe, however, that politics is a positive force on the lives of my fellow citizens. Allowing yourself to be driven away by negative advertising hurts most those of our fellow citizens who need the effects of government the most. Make no mistake, much of the name calling is designed to drive moderates away from participation at the polls.

I suggest, if you feel that you shouldn't vote, you should redouble your efforts to reach the polling place. It is too important. One example I can point to, is the 140,000 soldiers serving in Iraq. And I believe another 20,000 are serving in Afghanistan - although with the recent change over to Nato, I'm not certain that is still operative.

In my opinion, the leadership of Donald Rumsfeld, and President Bush has been criminally negligent toward those young men and women serving in the military. As I read Mr. Woodward's 'State of Denial', it is apparent that Secretary Rumsfeld never intended to secure the country after invading it. His constant struggles to push security - which according to international law ascribes to the conquering nation - off the military and into the State Department. Those struggles exacerbated the security situation and inflamed the insurgency and civil unrest.

There is too much as stake to allow the nastiness of an election drive us away from our social responsibilities.

So Please Step Up - I voted this morning. On a Paper, Absentee Ballot. My vote will be counted correcty.

Mike

 

[Ping898]

A truly silly argument - but, it might work.

What just depresses me is not that it might work, but that if you look at before and after polls (which admittedly I always consider suspect) it seems that it does work.
I haven't got a clue where to go to vote, but I will go and vote cause there is an issue on the ballot I consider important enough to vote against, but I still haven't a clue who to vote for for any of the races, I wish there would be a way to get rid of all the garbage and clutter that doesn't matter and find out what really matters and is important....

 

[michaeledward]

For those who think that the Political Process is unpleasant.

Please Please Please ... get in front of H B O sometime this week and check out Bill Maher's Real time. Andrew Sullivan and Christie Todd Whitman are arguing very clearly how important it is to get out and vote. I disagree with the basics of each of these two persons point of view. But try and listen to them.

Please Vote.

 

[Makalakumu]

Our political process has been reduced to this.

Turn off the TV and Vote!

 

[dubljay]

Okay time for me to be a hypocrit. I agree, shut up and vote. But do more than just vote, BE INFORMED! Dont take MSNBC's word for it, or some 20 second tv comericial about some canidate or proposition. Learn about what is is you're voting on. Read both sides of the line (even if it feels like your teeth are bing pulled to read what the otherside says). If you dont get it, do the impolite thing and bring up politics in conversation. Get into a heated argument, just make sure that you're not voting in the dark. Dont fall into the trap of thinking 'oh it doesnt make a difference' because it does. Get passionate and enraged about the politics and do something about it.


(this all coming from one who has neglected to vote :whip::whip::btg::btg: i know i know.... i dont need to hear it. like i said I'm a hypocrit)

 

[Ping898]

Our political process has been reduced to this.

Turn off the TV and Vote!

Ok that ad was hilarious!!

 

[michaeledward]

While I try to keep up with the blogs, I don't normally try to crib them directly here, just try to keep my mind open to diverse perspectives.

I thought of this thread when I read this post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-geiger/what-republicans-call-sp_b_33087.html

My young son and I were talking last week about the definition of a lie. As a nine-year-old, he's expanding his boundaries and testing the waters on how little he can get away with telling my wife and me without crossing the line into being a liar. This seems to me like a perfectly normal part of childhood development so, as we talked, I used an example from last winter, when we had a misunderstanding about whether or not his school had been closed in advance of a monster snowstorm.

He told me the night before that he heard from one of the teachers that, because of the magnitude of the expected storm, classes had been called off in advance for the next day. We found out later that night that this information was incorrect, that a preemptive snow-day had not been called and my little boy promptly apologized for "lying."

I asked at the time if he knew that a snow-day had really not been called and, when he replied that he really did believe his information was correct, I explained that he had simply been mistaken and that he had not lied. If he had found out at 6:00 PM that his information was wrong, I said to him, telling me at 7:00 PM that school had already been canceled would indeed have been a lie.

My little boy understands and acknowledges that obvious distinction -- Republicans do not.

Now, I am not going to stand here and tell you the reverse never happens, but read the article, and apply it to your own experience. If it doesn't make you vomit.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

i've said it before, but where i get my boxers in a twist is over how adversarial the process has become. the dems and reps are both in a power struggle and hold a serious 'with us or against us' kind of stance.

the result is ideas, bad and good, are being judged on who presented them rather than on the quality of the idea.

if dubya presented a beautiful, fair and utopian bill for universal health care, the dems wouldn't touch it.

if the dems presented a foolproof plan to achieve all the goals in iraq in six months with no casualties, the reps would find a way to call it immoral.

drives me crazy. when you vote, please avoid the 'straight party ticket' notion. yeah, the abuses of the current regime make me nervous, but that doesn't mean i'm going to automatically vote against the honorable republicans in my district.

 

[heretic888]

i've said it before, but where i get my boxers in a twist is over how adversarial the process has become. the dems and reps are both in a power struggle and hold a serious 'with us or against us' kind of stance.

Yeah, but it's nothing new.

I forgot his name, but there was a guest on Jon Stewart's The Daily Show a few weeks back who pointed out that it was way worse prior to the invention of radio and television. Things like accusing Thomas Jefferson of prostituting for the Czar of Russia and all sorts of slanderous claims. Nasty, nasty stuff.

The truth is that things are probably about as "clean" now as they ever have been. That, in my opinion, speaks volumes.

Laterz.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

that's a good point. i remember reading a book about some of the insane mudslinging that went on back in the day.

what bothers me more is how totally entrenched it appears to be. back then it was 'i want the same position as the other guy, so i'm going to make up some lies to get people to vote for me'. that left room for people to get stuff done once the election was done with.

now it seems like it's gotten into the political process itself. after the election, good bills get snuffed because the wrong side brought them up. it seems like that is something new.

 

[Carol]

Our political process has been reduced to this.

Turn off the TV and Vote!

TV? What is this TV you speak of?

 

[Ping898]

TV? What is this TV you speak of?

It is that black screen that collects dust and can usually be found in a bedroom or corner of a living room. Typically it is heavy so home owners should not attempt to move their "TV" without assistance.... This time of year, on occassion a "TV" can be recognized as the black box many men will sit in front of and yell at while watching a phenomena known as "football"

 

[michaeledward]

if dubya presented a beautiful, fair and utopian bill for universal health care, the dems wouldn't touch it.

if the dems presented a foolproof plan to achieve all the goals in iraq in six months with no casualties, the reps would find a way to call it immoral.

We'll never know will we.

Seems the current power structure is bent on calling the opposition names. See John Murtha. See John Kerry.

And how's that perscription drug plan working for the folks you know?

 

[bushidomartialarts]

We'll never know will we.

Seems the current power structure is bent on calling the opposition names. See John Murtha. See John Kerry.

And how's that perscription drug plan working for the folks you know?

thank you for making my point.

 

[FearlessFreep]

We'll never know will we.

Yup, because now would've been the perfect time to present it, prior to the mid-term elections. The Dems seem more content to rest on what they hope is enough discontent with Bush then motivated to actually present a comprehensive vision of their own to give people a reason to vote *for* them.

But here's the rub:

Everyone should vote, but...

Assuming your vote actually is tallied the way you intend, baring any occurances of incompentance, mechanical failure, or shenanigans.

Assuming your vote makes a numerical difference in who will win

Then your candidate gets in and...so what?

Either they are a typical politician. Which means that it doesn't really matter if the are Rep or Dem. Principles of liberal or conservative have long been sold out to the desire for power for it's own sake. Herein is the fun. If power is split between parties across bracnhes, then nothing can get done, even when the people want it or not. If power is consolidated then one party has pretty much uncontested power, which means they can do what they want, which is bound to be seen as wrong in the eys of about half the country anyway. Because party politics have taken over principles, you either get a useless government or a tyrannical government, and both are just as bad as each other.

Or your candidate is actually a person of principle, someone you can actually be proud of. In which case they will be swallowed up by the above.

So politics has resulted in a situation where your vote doesn't matter. Even if it counts, it won't amount to anything in any meaningful way for the country at large, Even if your candidae wins, *you* still lose.

But vote...it's your civic duty and you might as well play the game by the rules.

 

[michaeledward]

I think the topic of this election is the war in Iraq. Everything else is just chaffe. The congress has little or no impact on foreign policy. The one option they have is to cut funding. And that would be political suicide.

Were the opposition to present a 'contract with america' type comprehensive plan, and make it the focal point of the campaign, it would be - and should be - ridiculed at having the wrong focus.



The topic of this election is the war.

It seems apparent that nobody has paid attention to the Democrat's First 100 Hours Plan, which has been proposed. But, nobody is listening.



The topic of this election is the war.

And President Bush has said Donald Rumsfeld is 'doin' a heck of a job'.

And John Boehner has asked that we don't blame Rumsfeld, because he is not on the ground in Iraq ... It's all the General's Fault.

Who doesn't support the troops?

 

[Carol]

It is that black screen that collects dust and can usually be found in a bedroom or corner of a living room. Typically it is heavy so home owners should not attempt to move their "TV" without assistance.... This time of year, on occassion a "TV" can be recognized as the black box many men will sit in front of and yell at while watching a phenomena known as "football"

Oh that! Mine broke 3 years ago. Since then it's been a 200 pound incense holder.