Danger of Predators in the Outdoors

[Makalakumu]

I wanted to start a thread so that we could discuss the danger (real or percieved) posed by predators in the wilderness. So lets talk about bears, cougars, wolves, anything that poses a threat to the average outdoorsperson (except humans - that can be another thread) and how to deal rationally with those threats.

 

[Makalakumu]

List of fatal, unprovoked shark attacks in the United States by decade
List of fatal alligator attacks in the United States by decade
List of fatal bear attacks in North America by decade
List of fatal wolf attacks
List of fatal cougar attacks in North America by decade

 

[Makalakumu]

If anyone can find a more complete list or a more authoritative source, please do so. I think that before we continue here, we need to establish just how common attacks really are.

 

[bydand]

For as many Black Bears as we have here in Maine, you never hear of any attacks. I cannot remember one in the last 20 years that I have been interested in such things. Cannot even hazard a guess about Cougars, other types of bears, or wolves.

Now bluff charges are another thing altogether. I have been bluff charged by a Bear several times, and it will get the old ticker thumping. Problem is you don't know when they are going to stop 10 feet from you, and when they are going to go through with it. Had a Bobcat show a bit of displeasure once when I came too close. Moose are a bigger threat here than the typical predators that first come to mind. They are big, ornery, and not afraid of anything in the woods. I have had 2 seriously try to stomp me into extinction. I give them plenty of respect and a wide berth. To tell the truth I am more worried about low hanging hornet nests than I am any mammals out there. That doesn't mean that during the Spring, I go stream fishing unarmed. Never can tell when you might meet that one bear who is hungry, mad and not going to bluff.

 

[Cruentus]

I give them plenty of respect and a wide berth. To tell the truth I am more worried about low hanging hornet nests than I am any mammals out there. That doesn't mean that during the Spring, I go stream fishing unarmed. Never can tell when you might meet that one bear who is hungry, mad and not going to bluff.

It's not to be worried about, but it is important to not be stupid and niave and take proper precautions, as you mention in your thread.

It is a game of odds, but remember that the odds are that most people aren't attacked because most people don't play in these animals environments.

So, sure, the odds are next to impossible that I'll be attacked by a shark near my home because I don't live near the Ocean. I decide to go swimming in the Ocean where it is known that there are sharks, my odds increase, but are still pretty slim. But what if I decide to swim off the coast of South Africa or Australia in Great White infested waters with sea lions and a bucket of chum? Yea, my odds greatly increase of being attacked by a shark from a once very low percent chance to a now very high percent chance.

Now, no one is going to be that stupid, hopefully. But, my point is that the odds are low to be attacked by any animal, but that people do stupid **** to increase their odds.

So, the moral here is don't be a dumb ***. But seriously, don't get cocky and take the proper precautions. These animals deserve our respect, and taking the proper precautions is giving animals the respect that they deserve...

C.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

What are the odds of being attacked by a person? Yet look at all the preparation we do as MArtist's.

Dont worry but be ready.

 

[Flying Crane]

well, mountain lions are a bit of a problem here in California, as we keep pushing into their habitat which ultimately forces encounters. They do seem to be willing to view people as potential food, they are crafty and will trail you in the woods and jump you from behind. Once the back of your neck is in his jaws, it's probably all over for you.

that being said, there have been a couple stories in the last couple of years of people successfully fighting them off. One was an elderly man who killed one with a pocket knife, and the other was an elderly couple, the man was taken by the cat and suffered severe woulds to his head, but his wife fought it off with a stick. Pretty amazing.

I think the thing with mountain lions is you gotta be alert and aware because they will follow you and try to take you unaware.

All in all I think the chances of being attacked are still pretty small, but it does happen out here...

 

[Blotan Hunka]

well, mountain lions are a bit of a problem here in California, as we keep pushing into their habitat which ultimately forces encounters. They do seem to be willing to view people as potential food, they are crafty and will trail you in the woods and jump you from behind. Once the back of your neck is in his jaws, it's probably all over for you.

that being said, there have been a couple stories in the last couple of years of people successfully fighting them off. One was an elderly man who killed one with a pocket knife, and the other was an elderly couple, the man was taken by the cat and suffered severe woulds to his head, but his wife fought it off with a stick. Pretty amazing.

I think the thing with mountain lions is you gotta be alert and aware because they will follow you and try to take you unaware.

All in all I think the chances of being attacked are still pretty small, but it does happen out here...

Ive read several current survival manuals that reccommend you play dead with a Grizzley (because you really have no chance against one unarmed) but fight if attacked by a cougar or Black Bear because they average a humans weight/size and a deternined and healthy human has a solid chance of either killing or fighting one off. The say that cougars/BB are also less likely to leave you alone if you play dead.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ive read several current survival manuals that reccommend you play dead with a Grizzley (because you really have no chance against one unarmed) but fight if attacked by a cougar or Black Bear because they average a humans weight/size and a deternined and healthy human has a solid chance of either killing or fighting one off. The say that cougars/BB are also less likely to leave you alone if you play dead.

yes, I think I've heard similar suggestions as well.

I think with a grizzly, you're likely to get mauled, pissed on, and buried under a pile of leaves for later consumption. If you protect your vitals you just might survive it and be able to escape when he wanders off. But you're gonna pay dearly for it.

With blacks and mountain lions, I think you wanna look as big as you can. Wave big sticks in the air, stand tall, open your jacket, make noise, whatever you can to look like something he doesn't want to tackle.

I think a black can grow to over 600 pounds, and a mountain lion to over 150, and they are certainly faster and stronger than even a large man, at least in the ways that matter. Those claws and teeth add to the advantage as well...

I'd be pretty bummin' if I had to face one down with just a folding pocket knife.

 

[Nomad]

Ive read several current survival manuals that reccommend you play dead with a Grizzley (because you really have no chance against one unarmed) but fight if attacked by a cougar or Black Bear because they average a humans weight/size and a deternined and healthy human has a solid chance of either killing or fighting one off. The say that cougars/BB are also less likely to leave you alone if you play dead.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but this post reminded me of a joke:

How do you tell a black bear from a grizzly bear?

Climb a tree.

If it's a black bear, he'll climb up after you and kill you.

If it's a grizzly bear, he'll knock the tree down and kill you.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but this post reminded me of a joke:

How do you tell a black bear from a grizzly bear?

Climb a tree.

If it's a black bear, he'll climb up after you and kill you.

If it's a grizzly bear, he'll knock the tree down and kill you.

That's actually pretty funny, in a twisted sort of way.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have wondered around in the woods from the time I was big enough to walk and have been fortunate enough never to encounter a mean bear or any other wild life that did not like me except for a skunk I almost stepped on.
I would think snakes would be a bigger problem than some of the larger animals out there

 

[MA-Caver]

My own personal experiences with predators in the wild have been limited (thankfully) and usually after the fact.
Not in any particular order...
1. Arrived at a cave entrance to find fresh (cougar) tracks (going IN but not out) and fresh scat that was less than 12 hours old. This was determined by using a stick and breaking the largest piece and finding only a hardened crust with soft to mushy insides and bits of fur and bone in the fecal mix. Cave was entered cautiously and no animal was found... turns out the cave had two natural entrances.
2. Hiking back from a cave in the dark to the vehicles some 3 1/2 miles away in heavily wooded canyon and I personally sensed a presence nearby when I stopped to allow my companions to catch up as I was roughly 100 yards ahead of them. When they neared to 50 (or so) yards I continued on. At the vehicles the remaining group was excitedly chatting and asked me if I had seen the two (black) bears that were just off the trail we used to hike down. They must've been within yards away from me but I didn't see or hear them in the thick brush.
3. Hiking back down in the dark from yet another cave with yet another group, our headlamps reflected off the eyes of what is presumed to be a very angry (or in heat) bobcat as it was yowling and screeching some 30-35 yards away from us. We just continued on until it faded out of (hearing) range.
4. Hiking UP to a cave in a steep canyon during the middle of winter cougar tracks were spotted crossing the trail we were using. Could've been from the night before but we kept our eyes and ears opened none-the-less.
5. Camping in a remote campground something snuffled and pushed against our tent and just happened to be on the side I was sleeping on. Someone else heard a growl and then nothing else beyond that.

I've noticed from upnorth's links that the list of bear attacks (on women) didn't post the autopsy reports (not surprising) to determined if the women were possibly menstruating at the time of the attack.
Most of the cougar attacks were upon children. Which shouldn't be surprising since they are viewed as our "cubs" and thus easy prey than a large adult. I don't think the animals were making any distinction on the species since they tend to try to take fawns and other young mammals rather the adult versions of the young. (tiny trivia... did anyone know that deer/elk fawns have no scent?)
Wolves attacking people are very few and far between... anyone noticed that?

Going in to deep wilderness one needs to consult park-rangers and other wild-life experts on conditions and know the habits of potential predators. Making a lot of noise to let the predators know you're there sounds like an oxymoron but it basically gives them warning that you're around and gives them the option to get out of the area.
Anyone with small children should have the common sense I would think to know NOT to go in to DEEP wilderness areas no matter how good it may be for them.

 

[Lynne]

I take my dog out at night and have come too close to a skunk here and there. Near dusk and during nighttime is a prime time to run into a skunk. The big fear is getting sprayed. That's what we think about, right?

What about being attacked by a skunk? It happens and they don't have to be rabid to attack. A few years back, my daughter was attending a Christian Camp hosted by a ranch. They'd typically go horseriding on a daily basis. Before a ride, I noticed that one of the teenage camp couselors had his entire lower leg bandaged. He'd gone hiking on the horse trail the late afternoon/early evening previous and startled a skunk. The thing attacked his leg, biting him severely and scratching his legs to ribbons; its claws were like razorblades he said. He was wearing shorts on his hike. If he'd been wearing long pants as one should do in the woods or even on somewhat open trails, he would have sustained less injury.

Oh, he had to have rabies shots, too.

 

[Tames D]

My own personal experiences with predators in the wild have been limited (thankfully) and usually after the fact.
Not in any particular order...
1. Arrived at a cave entrance to find fresh (cougar) tracks (going IN but not out) and fresh scat that was less than 12 hours old. This was determined by using a stick and breaking the largest piece and finding only a hardened crust with soft to mushy insides and bits of fur and bone in the fecal mix. Cave was entered cautiously and no animal was found... turns out the cave had two natural entrances.
2. Hiking back from a cave in the dark to the vehicles some 3 1/2 miles away in heavily wooded canyon and I personally sensed a presence nearby when I stopped to allow my companions to catch up as I was roughly 100 yards ahead of them. When they neared to 50 (or so) yards I continued on. At the vehicles the remaining group was excitedly chatting and asked me if I had seen the two (black) bears that were just off the trail we used to hike down. They must've been within yards away from me but I didn't see or hear them in the thick brush.
3. Hiking back down in the dark from yet another cave with yet another group, our headlamps reflected off the eyes of what is presumed to be a very angry (or in heat) bobcat as it was yowling and screeching some 30-35 yards away from us. We just continued on until it faded out of (hearing) range.
4. Hiking UP to a cave in a steep canyon during the middle of winter cougar tracks were spotted crossing the trail we were using. Could've been from the night before but we kept our eyes and ears opened none-the-less.
5. Camping in a remote campground something snuffled and pushed against our tent and just happened to be on the side I was sleeping on. Someone else heard a growl and then nothing else beyond that.

I've noticed from upnorth's links that the list of bear attacks (on women) didn't post the autopsy reports (not surprising) to determined if the women were possibly menstruating at the time of the attack.
Most of the cougar attacks were upon children. Which shouldn't be surprising since they are viewed as our "cubs" and thus easy prey than a large adult. I don't think the animals were making any distinction on the species since they tend to try to take fawns and other young mammals rather the adult versions of the young. (tiny trivia... did anyone know that deer/elk fawns have no scent?)
Wolves attacking people are very few and far between... anyone noticed that?

Going in to deep wilderness one needs to consult park-rangers and other wild-life experts on conditions and know the habits of potential predators. Making a lot of noise to let the predators know you're there sounds like an oxymoron but it basically gives them warning that you're around and gives them the option to get out of the area.
Anyone with small children should have the common sense I would think to know NOT to go in to DEEP wilderness areas no matter how good it may be for them.

Regarding item #1... ARE YOU CRAZY??? LOL. I would have backed away from that cave as fast as possible. LOL.

 

[Blindside]

Of my friends who frequent time in the outdoors, one has been jumped by a cougar, another has been openly stalked while he was fishing.

Every carnivore biologist that I have ever spoken to has told me that if you spend any time in the wilderness (western US anyway) a big cat has checked you out, and you never knew about it.

Yes the odds are low, so is being caught in an avalanche while skiing, that doesn't mean an avalanche beacon isn't a good investment.

Lamont

 

[bydand]

1. Arrived at a cave entrance to find fresh (cougar) tracks (going IN but not out) and fresh scat that was less than 12 hours old. This was determined by using a stick and breaking the largest piece and finding only a hardened crust with soft to mushy insides and bits of fur and bone in the fecal mix. Cave was entered cautiously and no animal was found... turns out the cave had two natural entrances.

Regarding item #1... ARE YOU CRAZY??? LOL. I would have backed away from that cave as fast as possible. LOL.

My thoughts exactly!!

 

[bydand]

Yes the odds are low, so is being caught in an avalanche while skiing, that doesn't mean an avalanche beacon isn't a good investment.

Lamont

So true, like I mentioned already, even though the odds are very small of an animal bothering you out in the woods, I still carry when stream fishing. I tuck the old .44 Mag filled with handloaded 265 or 300 grain bullets in my shoulder holster, and the 4+ pounds are a nice thing to be able to grab if needed. I've had it out on a couple of occasions, but haven't had to pull the trigger yet to stop an animal. Looked down the barrel at both bear and moose.

 

[Makalakumu]

Okay, is there such as being over prepared? Think of it in terms of MA, you don't walk everywhere you go armed to the teeth. What do you think are appropriate precautions to the level of threat presented? What about places where certain precautions are forbidden? For example, most National Parks that I know of forbid firearms.

Lastly, if anyone would recommend a good all around firearm for places you can carry, what would it be?

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I think a black can grow to over 600 pounds, and a mountain lion to over 150, and they are certainly faster and stronger than even a large man, at least in the ways that matter. Those claws and teeth add to the advantage as well...

Yeah, Ive personally seen a 500lb black bear, but mid 100's to 200's are the average around here. Cougars are in the 70's-100's.