College...

[MartialArtHeart]

I'm having a dilemma. See, I love my martial arts school so much, and I have a good chance of becoming an instructor soon. But I'm a senior in high school now. Next year, I'll either have to go to a local college just to stay at Alexander's, or I'll have to find a college with a great martial arts program in it or nearby. I was wondering if anybody knew of any good colleges with reputable martial arts programs?
I looked at the programs at Notre Dame U. yesterday... it seems great, actually, but they only have classes one or two days a week. I guess this is normal for a college class, but I'm used to going at least 20+ hours a week... usually about 25(I assist with many of them, and some of them are extras). I suppose I won't have this much time in college... heck, I won't have this much time in my senior year... but still, it makes me a bit sad...
Anyways, do you have any suggestions, maybe? Anything to help me find a good program? I'm looking for a good college, too... I'm a straight A student who is unsure as far as majors go... perhaps a liberal arts major? Or maybe psychology or business(just so you know the kind of thing I'm looking for)? I'm so open it's ridiculous...

so, any ideas? advice? anything? I heard of a school that offers a major in martial arts... seriously, it sounds like something I'd love, but I think it's too far north, or I didn't like the campus or something... if you know where I'm talking about, can you give me some info?

 

[Rich Parsons]

I'm having a dilemma. See, I love my martial arts school so much, and I have a good chance of becoming an instructor soon. But I'm a senior in high school now. Next year, I'll either have to go to a local college just to stay at Alexander's, or I'll have to find a college with a great martial arts program in it or nearby. I was wondering if anybody knew of any good colleges with reputable martial arts programs?
I looked at the programs at Notre Dame U. yesterday... it seems great, actually, but they only have classes one or two days a week. I guess this is normal for a college class, but I'm used to going at least 20+ hours a week... usually about 25(I assist with many of them, and some of them are extras). I suppose I won't have this much time in college... heck, I won't have this much time in my senior year... but still, it makes me a bit sad...
Anyways, do you have any suggestions, maybe? Anything to help me find a good program? I'm looking for a good college, too... I'm a straight A student who is unsure as far as majors go... perhaps a liberal arts major? Or maybe psychology or business(just so you know the kind of thing I'm looking for)? I'm so open it's ridiculous...

so, any ideas? advice? anything? I heard of a school that offers a major in martial arts... seriously, it sounds like something I'd love, but I think it's too far north, or I didn't like the campus or something... if you know where I'm talking about, can you give me some info?

The Milky Way being a little large, I know that many large college towns have programs either on the school or in the town.

Any idea on where you might be looking?
Cost wise? Ivy League or Big Ten or PAC Ten?
State Universities?

Local Colleges?

 

[MBuzzy]

Personal opinion....Decide what you want to do with your life FIRST. Don't make the mistake of choosing a major just to have a major. I know plenty of sociology and history majors that are working at circuit city.

With that said - I feel that you should make your decision based on the college, not on the MA program. No matter where you go, you'll find a school. Even if it isn't the perfect school, deal with it for 4 years, then you will move and you can find a better one. But your education should be the most important thing. You need to have fun and be happy while you're at college also and if you make your choice based just on MA, you may find that the school you choose is missing many other things that you want.

As far as a good college - they all have their merits. Look at some campuses, try to decide what you want to do with your life, and pick the one that fits you the best. THEN start looking for MA nearby. In just about any college town, you'll find something.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Read Mbuzzy's. With that in mind, most Cuong Nhu schools are located at one college or anouther. The web site is http://cuongnhu.com

 

[Hawke]

Ever consider joining the military? They offer scholarships plus will give you a good work out. You could learn some cool skills that will help you in real life. If you have a buddy or a family in the military definately talk to them. They can tell you the pros and cons. Or you can ask members here as well.

The name of a college will open doors especially if their name carries weight.
A college degree in itself will offer opportunites. Take your general education and see which subjects appeal to you. You might be interested in physical education, kinestheology, communications, psychology, history, military history, etc. Visit your professors. So many students don't seem to want to talk to their professor. While in college check out the local clubs, take some classes, and look for a local training hall near you. Who knows you may like the new style.

After you graduate the MA you want to study will still be there waiting for you.

 

[Darksoul]

-All good advice above, just let me point out something about the "major" thing. Most places don't require you to have a major picked out right from the get-go. Chances are, you can take general education classes for the first year or so before having to declare a major. So thats one thing you can look at whilst you're browsing the field. Then again, if you feel comfortable taking a year off from schooling, finish up and become an instructor at your current martial arts school, work a part-time job, get some perspective about life outside of school. Might even try a customer service job, which I can almost guarantee will convince you to go to college, should you not be certain. Trust you instincts.

(Personally, I have my issues with college education in this country but thats a whole other thread, haha!)

Good luck!!! Let us know what you decide.

A--->

 

[MartialArtHeart]

Thanks for the input, everyone. I understand that the education is very important, and that's why I'm trying to find a top tier school with a good program. Like I said, Notre Dame's program looks good, and it's a great school academically. I'm also looking at some Ivies... I've gotten mail from all of them, I think, so I'm sifting through to see which ones interest me now. Princeton looks awesome, but I haven't had a chance to look at MA programs there yet...
Keeping academics in mind, then, and college life in general... any more suggestions?

 

[Carol]

Getting in to a good school can open a lot of doors. Take a look at Master Jae Hun Kim's biography...in addition to starting one of the most well-reputed Tae Kwon Do academies in the U.S., he also earned an undergrad from MIT, an MBA from Harvard, and worked as a Vice President of GE.

In terms of curriculum...you may not know what you want to do until you enroll at a particular college and start exploring what interests you. Maybe you want to run your own school and find that business interests you. Maybe you want to incorporate MA as therapy and counseling or social work intrests you. You may find a different track.....perhaps you may invent a new kind of martial arts equipment. There is a reason why most colleges won't allow a Freshman student to declare a major...because they want you to explore. I changed my mind a gazillion times before deciding on a particular major.

Personally I didn't start my MA training until I was 36...however there is so much I learned from my college years that I can relate to my training. There were lessons from my professors that stuck with me, but could be seen in a better light once I started training. There were the opportunities that I simply wouldn't have had I not left home and gone to a world-class school...such as the chance to live with a Japanese family for a year.


My nephew (who will be attending college this fall) was very reluctant to go to college. He's got some computer skills and wants to go right in to the field and start earning money. It took a lot of effort to convince him otherwise but I think he finally listened when I told him that book-learning is really only half of your education. The other half is the people you meet and the connections you make...and you have to be there to make the most of it.

You'll have a lot to learn and a lot to experience...and only a short time to experience it all. I wouldn't make all your decisions based on the MA programs that a school has, because your martial education will go so much further than just working out.

Good luck to you...sounds like you have a very bright and exciting future ahead of you!

 

[jks9199]

Personal opinion....Decide what you want to do with your life FIRST. Don't make the mistake of choosing a major just to have a major. I know plenty of sociology and history majors that are working at circuit city.

With that said - I feel that you should make your decision based on the college, not on the MA program. No matter where you go, you'll find a school. Even if it isn't the perfect school, deal with it for 4 years, then you will move and you can find a better one. But your education should be the most important thing. You need to have fun and be happy while you're at college also and if you make your choice based just on MA, you may find that the school you choose is missing many other things that you want.

As far as a good college - they all have their merits. Look at some campuses, try to decide what you want to do with your life, and pick the one that fits you the best. THEN start looking for MA nearby. In just about any college town, you'll find something.

I want to start by echoing this post; choose your degree based on what interests you. If you're interested, you'll do better and work harder. The specific major is generally unimportant with regard to career, with a few obvious exceptions like teaching, engineering, and so on. For example, a business degree is often much more useful in law enforcement than criminal justice or administration of justice because the academies teach the cop stuff; the business degree will help understand financial crimes better or help as you advance and have to do budgets, etc.

Now... As I read the original post, I'm unclear of the poster's status. If he's a senior now, and about to graduate -- he's way behind the curve on college applications. If he's a rising senior -- he can look at the colleges and decide, in part, on whether compatible martial arts schools are available nearby, along with the other qualities of the school (majors offered, reputation, cost, general feel, etc.).

It might also be worthwile to consider doing community college for a year or two. It's cheaper, the credits generally transfer (in VA, unless things have changed, an associate's from a state community college gets you past a lot of the admissions games at a university or 4 year school), the teachers are often more experienced in the field AND actually teach instead of relying on teaching assistants... And the original poster can finish this stage of their martial arts development with their original instructor, too.

 

[MartialArtHeart]

Thank you. But I think the reason I really need a good martial arts program is so that I can better myself as a martial artist. What I mean is that, while I'm gone, the people at Alexander's will keep training... I don't want to come back as a has-been. I worry that if I don't keep my involvement in MA up, I'll lose my passion, and I won't even bother to go back. Or if I do go back, the people that stayed there will have gotten better, and I'll still be the same, or a step down.

And there are a few other reasons, too. One is that I assist classes right now, and when I leave all of the kids that I help are going to grow... they're going to expect me to have grown in my time, too... some of them may be full black belts when I get back! (I'm actually considering going local just so I can keep teaching these kids; I love 'em to death)

I know you are going to say I'm being too competitive, or that that's not what the MAs are about... but I can't come back if I'm not stronger than before... stronger than I would have been if I had not have left. I know it's ridiculous... but the MAs are my life. Like I said, I've got a good chance of becoming an instructor... I already assist an average of 7 classes a week, and I've taught my own class in the absence of the instructor before...
this is definitely going to be my life, if I have anything to say about it.

What I don't know is the form it shall take. I don't know if I wish to own my own business, or perhaps be an instructor on the side while I pursue another career, or write my own books on the MAs, or any of a number of different things. Hence the need for college... plus I would be crucified for not going.

 

[MartialArtHeart]

jks, I'm a rising senior. I am considering staying for a few years so that I can get my credits and stay with my karate family, but I don't know if I wish to choose that course. I mean, I can probably get a fairly good scholarship offer for wherever I go, and most of the schools I look at meet 100% of financial aid needs. Plus, part of me wants to get out of here and try something new... I want to study abroad, and try out a new type of MA, and experience life outside of AL.

 

[arnisador]

You have to pick a good college (for you) first and foremost. Don't stay at home just to follow martial arts. When you apply for a job after college and explain why you studied where you did that they'll understand that your priority is on something other than your area of expertise.

You'll find martial arts just about anywhere. If you need to start over in a new system, consider it cross-training.

Think about whether you want a big ro small school; an urban or rural location; proximity to museums etc.; and whether it must have professional programs (business, engineering, etc.). If you're really unsure, go liberal arts and consider the possibility of law school or an MBA after you get focused. Economics pays fairly well and keeps your options open. Consider adding Japanese to your course list!

What do you want to do with the rest of your life?

 

[tsd]

MartialArtHeart,
Martial Arts will be there for your whole life if you choose it.
Those first years of college, when you are young and limitless will not.

 

[Kacey]

Not to echo everyone else... but I'm going to. Go to college now - MA will be there wherever you go, and it will be waiting for you when you come back. As far as being a "has-been"... well... you're rather young to be worrying about that. You won't have the time in college you've had in high school, but so what? If you practice on your own, then your skills will stay sharp, as will your knowledge; you could even get the opportunity to cross-train in another style and bring the knowledge back to your current class.

Even if you choose to teach MA as your career, you need an education to fill in the information MA cannot give you. If you want to own a school some day, then perhaps some business classes will help you, along with some humanities classes to give you a background in history; there are some great classes out there on Asian culture in addition to European and American history.

If you are coming up on your senior year, you are probably about 17; don't limit your options this early. A couple of stories to help you see what I'm saying:

One of my students worked in a lumberyard in high school. His ambition was to work there his entire life, and he told his employer that. His employer told him he would go to college on his own, and work in the lumberyard on vacations, and be welcome back if that was still what he wanted after college, or be fired on the spot for not exploring his options more fully. He is now a lawyer, and remembers his former employer fondly, for forcing him out of his comfort zone and giving him the impetus to find what he really wanted.... and to become the first person in his family to attend college.

Another story: a young man got into TKD in college, and it consumed him - he was a high level sparring competitor and his life revolved around it... until he was drafted. He served on a battleship, and was the only person on board who had any knowledge of MAs - his choice was to find a way to continue his involvement on his own, or drop it. He discovered tuls (forms) - previously attended to only as a way to gain rank on his way to higher levels of competition - as a way to practice individually, and also began to teach others, using the landing pad on the ship as his practice area. When he was discharged, he continued to train, and to teach, while in a career working in the court system. Grand Master Walter Lang is now the senior member of our TKD association, and was recently elected to IX Dan by a group of his peers - a career martial artist since the mid-1960s, who did not let TKD out of his life, nor did he let it prevent him from living his life inside and outside of his involvement in the martial arts.

 

[MartialArtHeart]

Great stories... I appreciate the input, and I see what all of you are trying to say. I am just so worried about missing out on 4 years of hard training...
oh, and as far as military goes, Hawke, I've considered it, and I still am, because of the wonderful training offered. As a matter of fact, I used to be involved in Civil Air Patrol on Redstone Arsenal here. But the thing is, I'm not sure that my personality can take military training. I'm what one might call a "free spirit"- I love to laugh and joke around, and I can't stand rigid regimens... I need to have flexibility in my life and be able to experiment with different things... military colleges probably don't offer this sort of freedom.

 

[kidswarrior]

Thank you. But I think the reason I really need a good martial arts program is so that I can better myself as a martial artist. What I mean is that, while I'm gone, the people at Alexander's will keep training... I don't want to come back as a has-been. I worry that if I don't keep my involvement in MA up, I'll lose my passion, and I won't even bother to go back.

If it's your passion, you can't lose it. Take it from an old timer, though, that passions can change as life moves along. What I was passionate about in my 20s (pursuing a PhD in medieval studies at UCLA) now makes me want to gag.

Or if I do go back, the people that stayed there will have gotten better, and I'll still be the same, or a step down.

So what? Life's a marathon, not a sprint. You're not 'done' at 25. Or 35. or 45. Or 55. I know you can't see that far ahead, so you'll just have to trust me. (A principle of life is we can only see ahead as far as we can remember back--I'm guessing for you that's maybe 12-13 years, so you can maybe envision being 30, or so)

And there are a few other reasons, too. One is that I assist classes right now, and when I leave all of the kids that I help are going to grow... they're going to expect me to have grown in my time, too... some of them may be full black belts when I get back! (I'm actually considering going local just so I can keep teaching these kids; I love 'em to death)

If you've fallen in love with these kids, that may be your passion. And once we take a fork in the road, life doesn't let us go back. I counsel high schoolers all day every day, and the one constant I preach is: Follow your passion, and the money, etc. will catch up. (Yeah, it may take longer than if you had an ivy league degree that launched you into Wall Street, but so what? What's the money and prestige do for you if the work is dreary?)

...but the MAs are my life. Like I said, I've got a good chance of becoming an instructor... I already assist an average of 7 classes a week, and I've taught my own class in the absence of the instructor before...
this is definitely going to be my life, if I have anything to say about it.

You're the only one who has anything to say about it. Yes, you're young and it's good to listen to those who care about you, but it's still your life. Just because people are family doesn't mean their motives for us are absolutely pure, or that they are all-knowing.

What I don't know is the form it shall take. I don't know if I wish to own my own business, or perhaps be an instructor on the side while I pursue another career, or write my own books on the MAs, or any of a number of different things. Hence the need for college... plus I would be crucified for not going.

By all means, go to college! But don't sacrifice something you're that passionate about to do it. Idealism kills more good than perhaps any other thing in our society, and our families very often have idealistic expectations for us, which we adopt without question. Later when it all goes south, we usually can't understand why. It's because we did what someone (everyone) told us we should do, instead of what we knew deep down we had to do.

I have no specific advice for you. That's way more power than you should give me. But I will second jks's thoughts on community college. That's what I finally did after finishing a four year hitch in the Navy, having a young family, and being 25 years old. What a stroke of luck! The professors were the best I've ever had--they could teach without having to publish (so no grad assistants), it was cheap, and every bit of it transferred to the four year school where I got my diploma. Here in CA, these credits all transfer to any University of California campus (UCLA, Berkeley, UCI, whatever--talk about Ivy League caliber!).

Anyway, take all this with a grain of salt: it's only one more opinion. I just don't want to see you make some of the mistakes I did, and which I still see done every day. :asian:

 

[MBuzzy]

Thank you. But I think the reason I really need a good martial arts program is so that I can better myself as a martial artist. What I mean is that, while I'm gone, the people at Alexander's will keep training... I don't want to come back as a has-been. I worry that if I don't keep my involvement in MA up, I'll lose my passion, and I won't even bother to go back. Or if I do go back, the people that stayed there will have gotten better, and I'll still be the same, or a step down.

And there are a few other reasons, too. One is that I assist classes right now, and when I leave all of the kids that I help are going to grow... they're going to expect me to have grown in my time, too... some of them may be full black belts when I get back! (I'm actually considering going local just so I can keep teaching these kids; I love 'em to death)

I know you are going to say I'm being too competitive, or that that's not what the MAs are about... but I can't come back if I'm not stronger than before... stronger than I would have been if I had not have left. I know it's ridiculous... but the MAs are my life. Like I said, I've got a good chance of becoming an instructor... I already assist an average of 7 classes a week, and I've taught my own class in the absence of the instructor before...
this is definitely going to be my life, if I have anything to say about it.

What I don't know is the form it shall take. I don't know if I wish to own my own business, or perhaps be an instructor on the side while I pursue another career, or write my own books on the MAs, or any of a number of different things. Hence the need for college... plus I would be crucified for not going.

We all definately understand what you are saying. But let me share something that I found when I left for college. I was heavily involved in music in my high school. That is where all my friends were, that is what I did with all of my time and that is what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I chose to go to College for Engineering though, because I needed to have some money to live on in the meantime.

I always figured that people would be anxious to see me and hear about what I was doing and everything when I got back. But when I came back, I still had a lot of friends, but I wasn't a part of things anymore. Basically just like you said, everyone had moved on without me and they were just fine. Whether I was the same, different, better, worse, didn't really matter to them. The more times I came back, the less everyone seemed to care. By the end of my Sophomore year in college, the people in college were my family and I didn't care about most of the people from my high school anymore. I still had friends, but mostly they had forgotten me and I had forgotten them. I sounds harsh....but true for MOST people. Especially if you are not immediately moving back to your hometown - even if you are in a lot of cases, you will start your own life. The bottom line is that you won't be a has-been. In fact, once you go to college, you may very well not even care what those people think of you anymore.

Also, I would definately caution you to not take any time off - even if you're already decided on going to college. I have known way too many people that decide to do that and never go. Which is fine if you have no interest in going to college or if you already have a real marketable trade.

 

[MartialArtHeart]

Which is fine if you have no interest in going to college or if you already have a real marketable trade.

I am a talented writer(and I'm not just saying that; 1st in the nation for a short story I spent half an hour on), I, apparently, have a gift with children which I have been denying for a long time(I always thought being good with kids would make me too girly... I'm a tomboy), and teaching classes pretty much comes naturally to me. But I know that these and the other skills I have can be enhanced through college; I'm young, and I'm probably pretty naive, but I'm not stupid... college nowadays is almost mandatory if you really want to put your best foot foward... exceptions are duly noted.
I'm glad you see what I mean about karate; I'll no longer be a part of it... I mean, people I've truly loved have left karate, and I missed them immensely, but I've moved on. And if they came back today, it wouldn't be the same for them. It's not that I would want my friends just sitting at the door like a pup waiting for its master... I'd want them to move on and grow stronger and develop new relationships, because they are my friends and I care about them, but I feel like, if I leave, this place will no longer be mine. And I couldn't face them if I didn't come back stronger than ever... if I leave, it has to be to grow: as a person, and as a martial artist.

 

[Hawke]

The college you attend may offer ROTC or you can join a military branch and still attend college (Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Notre Dame). Depending where you go you get to learn some very cool skills, flying a helicopter, jet, but wherever you go you will get the chance to learn real life skills. Plus you will receive benefits after your service. The military life is not for everyone. You will always have someone telling you what to do and following orders is not an option.

When you do your college applications turn them in as soon as possible. Some colleges go through two waves for applicants. The first wave the college is more lienent and the second wave they are much stricter. In one college I was helping out and the people deciding on the students' admission did not bother to read the essay unless the person was a borderline case. Usually these guys wanted to see numbers. Some colleges will want letters of recommendation so keep a few in mind.

When you attend college network with your fellow students. Ask which professors they liked or hated. This will help you discover the hidden gems of education. After you buy your books go to the library and checkout similar books. Sometimes when you get stuck you can get the info from another source to shed some light (like looking at the same thing from a different perspective). The internet will be a big help for research and supplementing your education.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Great stories... I appreciate the input, and I see what all of you are trying to say. I am just so worried about missing out on 4 years of hard training...

Or you could go to college and find another place with hard training that you may like better. And believe me college can be hard enough training on its own. You will be surprised at the things that pop up and hit you out of nowhere in life, some good some bad.

I moved from a Martial arts Mecca to a Martial arts dead zone and as far as my Martial arts goes I found CMA which I may not have otherwise done.

You are young, you have time, don't worry about it.

4 years from now you will be 21 or 22 if you go for a Bachelors degree 6 years (possibly) if you go for a Masters 23 or 24. That might sound old when you are 17 or 18 but believe me when you are closer to 50 than 40 you know it is still quite young.

Go to college and find another MA school if can and if you can't and you are saying that you are worried about missing out on hard training. Does this mean you cannot train on your own and train hard?

Believe me College is by far more important right now for a multitude of reasons.