Christian Martial Arts Schools

[shesulsa]

I'm not sure I understand the difference between a Christian Martial Arts school and any other except the use of the opportunity to spread the word of Christ.

Is there a difference in practices in these schools? Do we have any members here who are members of such a school?

 

[Eternal Beginner]

The two Christian MA clubs that I know members of do small subtle things differently. They don't bow to a picture of a founder of their MA like many TMA's do, one has eliminated bowing to other members as well.

They don't meditate as some clubs do, but they do ask for everyone to take a minute to pray before class.

I have attended one and honestly, you couldn't see a huge difference between them and a regular dojo. I'm sure some are more evangelical, but not the two that I know of.

 

[splazzatch]

I study at a Christian Martial Arts school...it is run by my pastor. We do not bow to founders but still bow to other members to show respect. We don't meditate but we pray and focus. We have an emphasis on showing respect to opponents and if we have to defend ourselves on the street our philosophy is that if we can stop them from hurting us without hurting them in the process we have succeeded in showing them the love of christ. We are a private school, with only 5 full time students and maybe 5 students who come when they can. My Sensei/Pastor trained before he became a Christian and felt that he should still teach and train now. He is a 6th Dan and his Son is a 5th Dan and they teach together.

Our school is called the Lion of Judah Martial Arts Academy.

We also train for free at a local gym owned by a congregation member.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I could see the over use of Christs teachings as a substitute for attitude, logic, basics, and fitness, by poorly qualified instructors that happened to be pastors and whatnot. But I see no conflict otherwise. Its really about the instructor here.
Sean

 

[Kacey]

Many people who do not understand, or ascribe to, the moral side of martial arts see them as opposite to many religions. Being Jewish, I would never join a martial arts class taught with a Christian theme such as the ones described, but I can certainly see how the moral aspects of martial arts could be incorporated into and taught in conjunction with a particular religion - and as long as all members are aware that that is the orientation of the class, and can choose to participate in the religious aspects or not, as their conscience dictates, I see no problem with it.

As far as the meditation goes - taking a moment to pray and focus IS meditation. My instructions to my students for mediation are as follows - at the beginning of class, I say "take a moment to clear your mind so you are ready to learn"; at the end of class, I say "take a moment to think about something you learned so you remember it". That is all meditation is for - although many people do not understand it, especially those watching from the sidelines. There is no religious significance to it - it is a way to set the time of training apart from the rest of the day, and that is the purpose it serves in many martial arts class. Certainly, there are other purposes for meditation, but I have never had a parent or student object to meditation the way I use it - and my students have been from every religion present in any number in the US.

 

[Ping898]

I am going slightly off topic - but I just remember when my Catecism (sp) teacher found out I took karate he was afraid they were going to lead me away from the fold......I just found that amusing

I've never been to a Martial Arts school associated with a religion, but personally I don't see a problem with it as long as people know when they are joining that the school has a dual purpose....which isn't what you asked, but is just my two cents on the whole subject...

 

[Jade Tigress]

I suppose it would depend on the school. I am a Christian, my instructor is a Christian, and so are many of the people at our school. However, it is not a "Christian" school. We do not pray in class, we salute the ancestors when we bow in and salute our instructor, Some Christians view that as worshipping the ancestors or whatever, for us, it's a sign of respect.

Ping, it doesn't surprise me that you got that reaction from the church. So many Christians/Churches have a problem with martial arts that I just don't understand.

As with any sect you will have a range of extremes. I think that Christian martial arts schools have personal convictions with traditions in secular martial arts schools that they can't be comfortable abiding by, so they replace or eliminate the things they feel compromises their faith, and train the martial art.

Also, some secular martial arts schools do teach alot of spirituality with martial arts training ie: Buddhism, Taoism, etc. that could go along the same lines as teaching Christianity with training.

Personally, as a Christian I would not practice another religion, or worship Buddha, or anything like that. I wouldn't bow or pray to Buddha in a class, but I have no problem showing respect for the ancestors of our system. Likewise, someone who is not a Christian may not feel comfortable praying at a Christian martial arts school.

For me, training is training. I enjoy learning about the religion and culture behind martial arts systems but that doesn't mean I have to practice it. I guess Christians who cannot reconcile their training with their personal convictions would find a way to train without what they feel is compromise.

I don't think many people who aren't Christians would join a Christian martial arts school. They would find a church if they had an interest in spirituality. I don't know that it's an effective way to "witness" and don't believe that is the core motive behind most Christian martial arts schools.

 

[splazzatch]

I am also not suprised by the reaction you got from your catechism teacher...For most people who don't know Martial Arts or who don't know about Christianity they could see how the two could be totally apart from each other.

 

[Monadnock]

If a school is advertising that they are a Christian MA school, it is most likely to draw in in other Christians. That's what advertising is for. Not that it wouldn't bring in non-Christians.

New students will have to go through the doors to find out just what it means though. Maybe there are references in class to Christianity combined with the school's training philosophy, maybe not. Perhaps the class just begins and ends with prayer.

All in all, nothing wrong with it to me, in fact I wish there were more. Training philosophy has to come from somewhere. I'll take that over the school that focuses on egotistical self-indulgence.

 

[hong kong fooey]

My school is held in a church and the instructer is the pastor of the church. and instead of medatiting we say the lords prayer.

 

[FearlessFreep]

My former teacher was a Christian as were about all of his students. Part of our memorization for each belt test was a blble verse related to the name of the form in some way. Our school patch had two words across that looked like a cross and included a 'school verse' that we had to memorize

My current teacher os also Christian but much more sublte about it as he lives in a more diverse neighborhood. So it's there but not nearly as overt.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Ping, it doesn't surprise me that you got that reaction from the church. So many Christians/Churches have a problem with martial arts that I just don't understand.

I do understand. In my experience growing up Rabid Fundamentalist, there are several reasons for this:

1. Ignorance - stereotypes of MA as Eastern cults, false image of the MA practitioner as thug, false information on hand conditioning, etc.
2. Unfortunately, some Christian leaders take uninformed cheap shots at the Martial Arts in order to show how devout they are. These individuals aren't the type of people who would join MA schools anyway, so from their viewpoint, why not destroy it for everyone else. This kid really wants to take Karate but I can display my devoutness by strongly recommending that her parents not take this step. Like most demagogues, they do not bother to take the time to research the subject and instead pull out extreme examples to make their uninformed case. This does not matter to them because their goal is self-aggrandizement and not truth.
3. Legitimate concerns that Eastern Philosophies and Traditions may conflict with their faith. Some, even many, MA studios DO have a few practices or beliefs that conflict with mainstream Christianity. My family has remained Fundamentalist, but I have not. However, I respect their viewpoint and wishes and now that my twelve year old niece wants to study Karate, I have given her grandparents a list of questions to ask at any Dojo in order to ascertain whether it would conflict with their beliefs or not.

In speaking of some demagogues, who happen also to be Christian, I do not MEAN to knock the vast majority of Christians who are NOT self-aggrandizing and wish only what is best for their children. Unfortunately, any large group will have its selfish sorts. Christianity is no exception.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I'm not sure I understand the difference between a Christian Martial Arts school and any other except the use of the opportunity to spread the word of Christ.

Is there a difference in practices in these schools? Do we have any members here who are members of such a school?

I was a member of such a school in the 1980's. My experience was very unfortunate and hopefully not the norm. The main people were shameless hypocrites who lied, cheated, did drugs and cheated on their significant others. I think it can go either way, a good school created by those who wish to share their faith as well as create a safe environment where fellow Christians can practice with absolutely no fear of conflict between their MA and faith and schools like the one I attended where Christian lingo, along with high MA ranks from unrecognized associations, was only one more tool of manipulation.

 

[Makalakumu]

I would never study at a christian martial arts school. That is just my personal preference because I am not a christian.

Other then that, I really have no problem with it. Sure, some dojos do the combination badly...but this should come as no surprise. Many non-christian dojos do MA badly. I have seen it done well before. A good friend of mine runs a christian dojo in the basement of his church. He is a fundamentalist and he deals with alot of the stereotypes listed above, yet the biggest positive about Tim's class is that he shows how MA transcends those stereotypes. Alot of fundamentalist christians are learning that their beliefs and MA can coexist.

When I visited his dojang, I experienced the following. We stretched at the beginning of class and I introduced myself as Tim's teacher's senior student. My friend then lined everyone up. We bowed to Jesus and said a prayer that he had written that asked for aid in concentration and performance. Tim read a verse from the Bible that he wanted the kids to think about. After that, we had a normal Tang Soo Do class. I taught the kids some standing wristlocks and showed them how to take someone down with them and then I showed them how to finish off their opponents with kicks on the ground. After the class was finished, we lined up and my friend took two minutes to relate the Bible verse to what we learned in class. I don't remember the actual verse, but the moral of the story was about using power responsibly. This was a powerful message considering the material that I taught. We then bowed to Jesus and said a prayer asking for a peaceful life.

Even though I am not a christian, this experience was powerful for me. I recognized the worth of the combination to this group of people and I was reminded of Shaolin monks using MA to bolster their faith. The bottom line is that I think the story above illustrates how the Martial Arts, Tang Soo Do in particular, can have a powerful impact on people. The founder of our art, Hwang Kee, created Tang Soo Do in order to better ourselves...and that is exactly what the people in Tim's dojang were doing. If he were still alive, I think he would nod his head in approval.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Xue Sheng]

I would not define myself as a Christian, but I have no problem with a Christian martial arts school. I have seen a couple, most seemed fine, and one scares me. Most have been as the previous people in the post have described. However I do think you have to make sure they don't cross the line, but that is the same with any MA school.

The one that scares me, crossed the line, and is not far from my house, it started out as a Christian martial arts school a few years ago, and it looked as previously described in the post. But now it has become this religious/unofficial private police training/fighting for Jesus school.

There is a book you might want to check out "Living the Martial way" by Forrest E. Morgan. You would probably be particularly interested in Part 3, Chapter 10.

 

[Makalakumu]

But now it has become this religious/unofficial private police training/fighting for Jesus school.

I can see some of these schools taking on many cult-like behaviors, but I think that one could also see this in any secular school. In fact, I know a few schools up in my area where "Devotion to the Master" is stressed a little too much.

 

[bluemtn]

As Hong Kong Fooey said, the 2 of us go to one at a Methodist church. They give you the option of praying or meditating. We bow to the class, and the 2 flags (we don't have pictures- never seen one in TKD). I don't think meditating is bad. It seems it's like a time to focus/ refocus. I think for the most part (about it being against Christian beliefs), depends on how you meditate. I haven't seen it stated that you have to meditate to any particular deity, so I don't fully understand the "it's anti- Christian" bit. Same for "master". I don't think it means (or at least now days) Lord of whatever over... Those are just my thoughts.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I use to teach Tai Chi at a Presbyterian church. The pastor asked me if I would teach on 2 different occasions. The first time I declined because he wanted the class to be only for other ministers, pastors and priests and I could not discuss Qi Gong and he decided after I had already quoted a price that I should do this for free for the church.

The second time was two years later and I was not given any restrictions or rules to follow. The class went fine, I did not preach anything Christian or Taoist, I did discuss Qi Gong and Tai Chi. All went fine.

 

[IcemanSK]

I am a Christian & have been a practicing martial artist for more than 23 years. I'm a seminary graduate & have worked in many churches in various positions (including pastor). I am also in the process of starting my own TKD school. I have trained w/ a lot of martial artists who were Christians, but who weren't "Christian MA-ists".

Because I am a Christian, I use the ethics of my faith in Christ in my teaching. I encourage my students to live by the "Golden Rule" (Do unto others as you would have them do to you) but I would share no overtly Christian message as part of class. I encorage students to be active in their churches (if that's a part of their lives). I tell them that "Being a good fighter is ONE thing, being a good person is everything." To me, this is as essential a part of the martial arts as a good side kick.

The reason I don't have an overtly Christian message in my class is that I don't think people hear the message strongly when its said so loudly. Christian is a great noun, but a poor adjective. When its used to to describe car repair, MA, music or my dog, it really fails in its intent. And sadly, a lot of folks have had really bad experiences with folks who have put the word Christian in front of their product or service. I'd rather have a parent of my students come to me & ask, "Why do you care so much about my kid?" Then I can share my faith as the reason I teach the way I do. Much like great coaches in other sports (basketball's John Wooden comes to mind) saw their faith as a way to develop character of their players. He was a great coach who was a Christian, not a "Christian basketball coach."

 

[splazzatch]

Iceman, I like what you said and it is very cool to see other Christians on here.