Changing methods based on clothing

[Kacey]

Many people I know train barefoot in some variation of a traditional dobok/gi. Periodically, I hold a class in street clothes to go over some of the differences between class practice and self-defense in street clothes/shoes.

How many of you do something similar?

How (if at all) do you vary your techniques?

How (if at all) do you change contact levels? For example, being kicked by a shoe is a lot different than being kicked by a bare foot.

What do you tell students who are wearing slip on/off shoes about what they should do with their shoes? For example, I tend to walk my dog in rubber, clog-style Crocs - but if I had to kick, they'd come off, so I'd probably step out of them at the first possible instance.

What other changes do you make when practicing in street clothes?

 

[Brian King]

Hey Kacey,
Way to go on giving your students the opportunity to train in different environments. This can be rewarding and enriching.

One of the things about uniforms and martial arts or ‘doing the work’ is the mental habit people use to get ready to perform. It is the same for many soldiers and police officers. While in uniform or character they can do the work but when out of uniform, with out the luxury of doing the rituals and mental preparation that many go thru before training, they find that they are not mentally prepared when having to do the work for real. I find this interesting.

Rather than stepping out of your “clogs” you can often use loose foot ware as a distraction, startle or/and as an additional percussion tool. We sometimes practice methods of loosening foot ware while in movement (standing and while on the ground) and using it missile like. It is amusing watching the reaction as somebody has to deal with a spiraling sneaker hitting them in their face throat or groin. Sometimes when faced with an animal attack loose clothing can be ‘given’ and sacrificed to the animal’s rage while the body escapes. Many times a easy escape from clothing grabs is to lose the clothing whether the grab is by an animals mouth or an attackers grasp or a frantic panicked mob.

Often shoes and jewelry (watches and rings) can be used to cut and mark an attacker. The use of face and neck cutting to anger or discourage an individual or group of people can be interesting psychology study. Cutting with shoes of course depends on the type of foot ware that is being worn and the target selected and of course the type of movement (of both the foot and the target) needed. The edge of the foot ware besides cutting can also be used very effectively to add disabling pain to pins where you use your foot against arms and legs that are on the ground. This pain can also be used to cause movement from an opponent on the ground such as bringing their head up and into range for a strike or kick or raising part of the body to observe under it.

Using hats and pockets for takedowns is also interesting and fun work. When I bounced I used to love how all the young men during hip-hop nights wore baseball caps, it is nice when they show up with additional handles on their bodies. If you are the one wearing a cap learn how to use it for distraction and as a percussion tool. The bill and the button on top can be learned to be used very effectively. Vladimir Vasiliev demonstrates this very well on the Systema improvised weapons DVD as well as many other ways of using and adapting clothing.

A quick note on clothing and jewelry and one effect on personal combat that I have been exploring lately, people often have attachments to the things that they wear and will often ‘protect’ it. For instance a chain or necklace they will leave their face and head open to protect that vanity or cherished item. The same holds true for a cell phone or PDA device. Many times you can use that instinct to guide a person’s movement or attitude. LOL this is a two way study in that learning how to manipulate a person’s attachment you also learn about and explore your own attachments.

Brian King

 

[14 Kempo]

Many people I know train barefoot in some variation of a traditional dobok/gi. Periodically, I hold a class in street clothes to go over some of the differences between class practice and self-defense in street clothes/shoes.

How many of you do something similar?

Where I was training, we never did this sort of thing, however, I constantly asked for it. I have trained for years and understand the difference between dojo and street, but most do not. Obviously wearing a gi is much different than denim jeans. I don't know about you, but when I'm wearing denim, I'm not lifting my leg above the waist, but I am using the feet to disrupt balance by checking legs, causing pain by hitting shins and knees, that sort of thing.

How (if at all) do you vary your techniques?

As most know, you do as you train. If you train in a gi always, then you may find yourself a bit restricted if an altercation breaks out in the street and you're in say denims and a button down shirt, with no give. Your body will still try to move as you had trained. If you are lucky, your clothes will simply tear and then allow you the freedom to move. If not, well, you'll may feel almost handcuffed.

How (if at all) do you change contact levels? For example, being kicked by a shoe is a lot different than being kicked by a bare foot.

Again, it is how you train. If you train to absorb a barefoot kick, then you will do the same if the assailant is wearing shoes or not. The idea is to train to deflect and avoid/slip the contact, then it doesn't matter what's on the feet, it's not hitting you.

What do you tell students who are wearing slip on/off shoes about what they should do with their shoes? For example, I tend to walk my dog in rubber, clog-style Crocs - but if I had to kick, they'd come off, so I'd probably step out of them at the first possible instance.

I've thought about this one alot, why, cause I train with shoes on, cause I always wear shoes. But then, I must admit, I just realized I'm a hypocrite, cause I do wear shoes, but rarely do I tie them -- it's a casual look, but the shoes will not stay on -- I need to train more without shoes ... LOL

What other changes do you make when practicing in street clothes?

Kicks are lower, I fight closer, shorter strokes on punches. I use movement, but shorter, more controlled footwork.

 

[seasoned]

Hey Kacey,
Way to go on giving your students the opportunity to train in different environments. This can be rewarding and enriching.

One of the things about uniforms and martial arts or ‘doing the work’ is the mental habit people use to get ready to perform. It is the same for many soldiers and police officers. While in uniform or character they can do the work but when out of uniform, with out the luxury of doing the rituals and mental preparation that many go thru before training, they find that they are not mentally prepared when having to do the work for real. I find this interesting.

Rather than stepping out of your “clogs” you can often use loose foot ware as a distraction, startle or/and as an additional percussion tool. We sometimes practice methods of loosening foot ware while in movement (standing and while on the ground) and using it missile like. It is amusing watching the reaction as somebody has to deal with a spiraling sneaker hitting them in their face throat or groin. Sometimes when faced with an animal attack loose clothing can be ‘given’ and sacrificed to the animal’s rage while the body escapes. Many times a easy escape from clothing grabs is to lose the clothing whether the grab is by an animals mouth or an attackers grasp or a frantic panicked mob.

Often shoes and jewelry (watches and rings) can be used to cut and mark an attacker. The use of face and neck cutting to anger or discourage an individual or group of people can be interesting psychology study. Cutting with shoes of course depends on the type of foot ware that is being worn and the target selected and of course the type of movement (of both the foot and the target) needed. The edge of the foot ware besides cutting can also be used very effectively to add disabling pain to pins where you use your foot against arms and legs that are on the ground. This pain can also be used to cause movement from an opponent on the ground such as bringing their head up and into range for a strike or kick or raising part of the body to observe under it.

Using hats and pockets for takedowns is also interesting and fun work. When I bounced I used to love how all the young men during hip-hop nights wore baseball caps, it is nice when they show up with additional handles on their bodies. If you are the one wearing a cap learn how to use it for distraction and as a percussion tool. The bill and the button on top can be learned to be used very effectively. Vladimir Vasiliev demonstrates this very well on the Systema improvised weapons DVD as well as many other ways of using and adapting clothing.

A quick note on clothing and jewelry and one effect on personal combat that I have been exploring lately, people often have attachments to the things that they wear and will often ‘protect’ it. For instance a chain or necklace they will leave their face and head open to protect that vanity or cherished item. The same holds true for a cell phone or PDA device. Many times you can use that instinct to guide a person’s movement or attitude. LOL this is a two way study in that learning how to manipulate a person’s attachment you also learn about and explore your own attachments.

Brian King

Very nice comments Brian. My post is short but you said it all.

 

[thedan]

I train in street/work clothes more than uniform/ghi, so the differences in timeing, restricted motion, weapon availability, etc. are just a given. My thought when I first saw this thread was changing my strategy based on what the bad guy is wearing.

Groin strikes may be less effective against a punk in baggy pants, but a strike to the inner thigh or to the hip join are still effective. Hot weather, maybe not as much clothing to grab onto, so strikes might be more important. Cold weather, too much padding for optimal striking in some cases, but a lot of places to grab. Footwear and the surface he's on will effect how he moves, and things like glasses can be used to enhance your strikes if you drive them into his face. Just another dimention to environmental awareness training.

Dan C

 

[bydand]

thedan, that was my first thought as well.

Kacey, while we almost always train in Gi's at our school, we also train in shoes. While I personally don't wear a set New Balance out on the training floor (I wear wrestling shoes), there are several who do wear the same type they wear every day. I like the wrestling shoes because they have really good grip and actually are a bit harder to slide on the carpet than my regular street shoes, which is a constant reminder to keep moving my feet. Other than that though, the only other time we wear different clothes is when we do outside training in the winter and we wear all of our outerwear and boots. We also go to the outdoor ice skating rink once or twice a winter to train on ice with boots and shoes.

Yeah I said carpet, which is a great step up from the hardwood floor we used to train on. Shoot we even have 1" of carpet pad under it now which almost seems like cheating because it doesn't hurt quite so bad when you get thrown.

 

[MJS]

Many people I know train barefoot in some variation of a traditional dobok/gi. Periodically, I hold a class in street clothes to go over some of the differences between class practice and self-defense in street clothes/shoes.

How many of you do something similar?

I do this. The majority of the time though, its something that I do on my own outside of the regular classes.

How (if at all) do you vary your techniques?

Depends on what I'm doing. Basically, make the necessary adjustments for whats happening at that moment.

How (if at all) do you change contact levels? For example, being kicked by a shoe is a lot different than being kicked by a bare foot.

The majority of people that I train with are already wearing shoes so its really not that different. I've taken my share of hits on the shin, leg, etc. For clarification on the shoes: Inside the dojo, its usually a wrestling shoe or the typical MA training shoe that you'd find at Century. Outside its usually sneakers.

What do you tell students who are wearing slip on/off shoes about what they should do with their shoes? For example, I tend to walk my dog in rubber, clog-style Crocs - but if I had to kick, they'd come off, so I'd probably step out of them at the first possible instance.

Do their best to keep them on. If its possible to change a kick to a knee strike instead, do so.

What other changes do you make when practicing in street clothes?

I try to go over everything that I'd normally do wearing a gi. Better to find out what you can/can't do, need work on, etc., during training, than when you need to rely on those skills.

Mike

 

[KnightlyMongoose]

How about, for those of us who are students, having to fight while stuck with a hefty backpack? Since I find myself with a backpack almost all the time I have tried practicing while wearing a pack, it really changes things, especially throws and self defense type manipulations.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

When I teach class or hold a training session, I tell everyone to wear a t-shirt under their Gi, and we go between Gi and no Gi.

Sometimes we train in street cloths and sometimes a few of us train out doors.

Good point about wearing a backpack, the best thing to do is put one on and take it to the lab, so to speak.

Anyone who is in Law Enfoircement or the Military, or any profession that has you wearing gear (Like a construction worker, lineman ect ect.) would be wise to work out sometimes wearing what you would for work.

 

[Brian King]

bydand wrote

“bit harder to slide on the carpet”

One of the things I enjoy and learn from working on carpeted surfaces is how much it is like asphalt. People often complain about rug burns while doing ground work but I use these as lessons on how to move while on asphalt and concrete and a rug burn is much easier on the body than an asphalt burn.

bydand also wrote

“the only other time we wear different clothes is when we do outside training in the winter and we wear all of our outerwear and boots. We also go to the outdoor ice skating rink once or twice a winter to train on ice with boots and shoes.”

Nice! I especially like the working on ice. It is interesting to note how many old swords and military gear is found on the bottom and sides of old rivers and this had many wondering why, until it was realized that the rivers when frozen over were the highways for ancient armies and many a battle and skirmish were fought on those surfaces.

KnightlyMongoose Wrote

“How about, for those of us who are students, having to fight while stuck with a hefty backpack? Since I find myself with a backpack almost all the time I have tried practicing while wearing a pack, it really changes things, especially throws and self defense type manipulations.”

Good for you for working under those conditions. Backpacks and rucksacks can also change dramatically your ground work and the way you take falls and rolls. If you cannot dump the rucksack before having to engage I have practiced working a couple of different ways. One is to use it like a lizards tail letting it make contact with my opponent as I rotate my body, they often find this surprising and it is very easy to knock them out of balance. A backpack can also be used like a shield (think turtle shell) to absorb blows even those from knives. I prefer in those circumstances to move the pack to my front and do the work with it there. I have found that with it on my back too many people found it and used it as a very good handle to yank and pull me about LOL which I found very annoying. It can of course also be used as a distraction device if you have time to take it off and set it by your feet or hold it in your hands before engaging, and throwing it at your opponent (I have more success tossing it low at their knees and feet although have had moderate success chucking towards the face) And of course depending on the weight of the pack it can make an interesting flexible percussion weapon.

Brian King

 

[Carol]

Nice idea of using a backpack as a weapon!

Personally I do a bit of practicing in street clothes. I'm comfortable running and kicking in a skirt and heels as well as jeans and sneakers.

High heels make an excellent impact weapon. The smaller the heel, the more concentrated the force. Kinda like a kubotan for the feet. Plus stomping with the heel on someone elses foot...very effective way to break a choke or a hold.

 

[bydand]

Nice idea of using a backpack as a weapon!

Personally I do a bit of practicing in street clothes. I'm comfortable running and kicking in a skirt and heels as well as jeans and sneakers.

High heels make an excellent impact weapon. The smaller the heel, the more concentrated the force. Kinda like a kubotan for the feet. Plus stomping with the heel on someone elses foot...very effective way to break a choke or a hold.

Note to self: Don't tick Carol off if ever visiting Mass.

 

[Hawke]

I train Kenpo in gi.

I train FMA in street clothes.

I train self defense techniques at my local YMCA in street clothes.

The movements do feel different depending on what I am wearing.

Dan brought up a good point about adapting to what your opponent is wearing.

I also agree with Scott..never piss off Carol (she also likes knives).

 

[Blindside]

My daily and work clothing doesn't restrict me more than my gi does (I can headkick in Levi 550s). I wear wrestling shoes inside the school almost all of the time, I spar with them on as well, I am very seldom barefoot in the school. Wrestling shoes makea pretty good analog for other daily wear. I have done class in a pair of 10' White smokejumper boots to prove a point.

While I do practice in street clothes regularly, I don't feel there is a big difference between my daily wear and wearing a gi and shoes.

Lamont