Cardio Kickboxing/Kickboxing

[47MartialMan]

I do not know if this thread belongs somewhere else, so here we go:

I had visited a friend of mine at a local gym and the gym had Cardio Kickboxing/Kickboxing classes.

I guess they gave it two names in order to show they had something different.

Watching the classes, I get so disgusted on how these people believe that they can actually defend or fight from working out this way.

Cardio Kickboxing, is just another fad term;
which in turned renamed from Tae Bo,
which in turned renamed from Jazzercise,
which in turned renamed from Aerobicise,
which in turned renamed from Aerobics,
which in turned renamed from Calisthenics,
which in turned renamed from Physical Ed,
and so on...if I missed any other names-let me know

One young couple, male and female, were so determined and sweaty, during a recess, they had purchased water. They were actually there as a couple.

I had asked, do they do it for the exercise or for combat/defense?
They replied yes to both.

I had asked, how can they apply what they had just done in combat or defense?
The male wanted to show me a demonstration.

My next demonstration was to swing an ordinary left hook punch at him. He had tried his Cardio Kickboxing/Kickboxing blocking to shield himself. It did little good because my fist still landed on his face. And that wasn't my full speed, power, or moves of deception. And that was when I gave him preparation and insight that I was coming at him.

His face was not bruised, but his ego was. I told them that what they were doing "was far" from actual combat/defense training.

The couple did not attend the rest of the class and instead was "picking my brain", for information on combat/defense.

I had informed them that I teach a self defense class for couple and women over 30 and that the classes are F.O.C.

They could not understand the classes being F.O.C., but the local community has allowed me to conduct these classes in one of their facilities, provided that I did not make any monetary profit.

I had explained that I did this as a "community service", because a good friend of my spouse became the victim of a mugging, in a "well-to-do" neighborhood.Classes were in the summer when I had more time.
The couple had wanted to join/go to these classes immediately.

Back to the thread:
BTW, this is no offense to those fighters that train hard, get in the ring, and actually get a punishment.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
And cow manure by any other name still stinks.

 

[MJS]

Cardio Kickboxing is usually billed as teaching both cardio and SD. This however is a great dis-service to people who actually think that they can defend themselves successfully using the moves that they learn. Many times, the class is taught by an aerobics inst. who has little to no MA background. I've seen little to no instruction on how to properly throw the puches and kicks, and this IMO, can and will lead to a serious injury. If a bag is not hit properly, the risk of injury to the hand/foot is great.

Are the classes a great cardio workout?? Yes, but they IMO are not the place to go if you want to learn Martial Arts or SD.

Just my .02.

Mike

 

[Infrazael]

Anyone that wants to do good SD similar to kickboxing should just take by old-school, hardcore Muay Thai.

 

[Simon Curran]

Cardio Kickboxing is usually billed as teaching both cardio and SD. This however is a great dis-service to people who actually think that they can defend themselves successfully using the moves that they learn. Many times, the class is taught by an aerobics inst. who has little to no MA background. I've seen little to no instruction on how to properly throw the puches and kicks, and this IMO, can and will lead to a serious injury. If a bag is not hit properly, the risk of injury to the hand/foot is great.

Are the classes a great cardio workout?? Yes, but they IMO are not the place to go if you want to learn Martial Arts or SD.

Just my .02.

Mike

This is just what I was thinking, my girlfriend (God love her...) has absolutely no interest in martial arts, and generally tends to have me around to play the knight in shining armour, however, in order to show her support and encouragement, she stands on the board of our club (we are also a none profit local community club, and by Danish law need a board to ensure everything is above board).
Anyway, back to the point, she has a few times asked me why we don't have one of these Cardio Kickboxing/TaeBo bullcrap sesions "because that is what people want, not techniques"
Despite my insitence that we train in self defence, we did for a (thankfully) very short time, have someone teaching "Girl's kickboxing" which was exactly the same thing (no sparring, no instruction of technique, just a lot of dancing around and skipping...) but as soon as this person got their attendance numbers up, we were no longer needed, and the class was moved elsewhere...
Just goes to show, like water and oil, are self defence and Cardio Kickboxing...

 

[MJS]

This is just what I was thinking, my girlfriend (God love her...) has absolutely no interest in martial arts, and generally tends to have me around to play the knight in shining armour, however, in order to show her support and encouragement, she stands on the board of our club (we are also a none profit local community club, and by Danish law need a board to ensure everything is above board).
Anyway, back to the point, she has a few times asked me why we don't have one of these Cardio Kickboxing/TaeBo bullcrap sesions "because that is what people want, not techniques"
Despite my insitence that we train in self defence, we did for a (thankfully) very short time, have someone teaching "Girl's kickboxing" which was exactly the same thing (no sparring, no instruction of technique, just a lot of dancing around and skipping...) but as soon as this person got their attendance numbers up, we were no longer needed, and the class was moved elsewhere...
Just goes to show, like water and oil, are self defence and Cardio Kickboxing...

Very well said! :asian: Its sad, because the people doing this fully know that what they're doing is not true SD, but they just want to keep up with the current trend, and the unsuspecting public gets fooled. Amazing what people will do to make a few $$!

IMO, if I was cardio, I'll jog, jump rope, use the wide assortment of machines at the gym, an aerobics class, etc., but if I'm looking for SD, I'm going to join a school.

I agree with your last paragraph...water/oil, SD/CKB....sorry, its just not a good mix.

Mike

 

[47MartialMan]

Well the trend is also called a fad. And martial arts are no diffeent. As soon as some exposure is put forth on a particular style/system, then people come out of the wood work to join the fad. Thus, this is also called "Jumping on the Bandwagon"

 

[AnimEdge]

I took a few of those classes at the YMCA(Not for SD) and the teacher(female i havnt seen a kickboxing(workout) teacher(inperson) that was not) anywho she woudl ramble in the end about how she would want to teach a Self Defince Class i knew even before i started MA that she did not know what she was talking about, and i now wish that i asked her what MA she knew if any, and at the Gym we have our classes there is a kickboxing workout class and one of my teachers asked her if she actually knew any MA and she said that she did not and was not interested in learning any(i dont know if she said it in a way she though that KB was better) but i only look at KB for workout and stamina and im glad that you corrected that couple

 

[MJS]

Well the trend is also called a fad. And martial arts are no diffeent. As soon as some exposure is put forth on a particular style/system, then people come out of the wood work to join the fad. Thus, this is also called "Jumping on the Bandwagon"

This is true. Look at BJJ. Once the UFC came out it seemed like everyone was running out to get certified from the Gracies.

This just goes to show the importance of asking questions before you join something. If you're going to pay for something, you certainly want to make sure its worth it.

Mike

 

[TigerWoman]

Sure cardio kickboxing is a fad or another new way to exercise. I think that is the point. It gets people in the door to exercise. Maybe to get stronger and healthier, maybe even help in the weight loss. It was not meant to be a self-defense system. Our kickboxing is kicking and punching a bag, pushups, crunches etc. Its a workout. But most people can't take a cardio workout like that for more than 30-40 minutes or so kicking sometimes over their head. I keep them going. Right now I have newbies which can't take much...they think I kill them. Not hardly. But that is their level, right now...and slowly increasing. Now, I have some 20-30 minutes also to fill. Since, the participants of my cardio kickboxing class are already students in TKD, they have alot of self defense already. What they came for was the cardio and strength training. I might help them with their self-defense requirements but most of the time I use to do stretches afterwards.

Sometimes new people will come in just for kickboxing not martial arts. That is the opportunity I have to show them some self-defense. Actually "some" is better than nothing. I just show a few basic techniques and ingrain and strengthen them each week when they come-instead of all the stretching time. No, they aren't invincible, and I tell them that. But they do get stronger and I have seen alot of women going into regular TKD classes because of the intro from cardiokickboxing. So don't knock it. Cardio kickboxing with or without self-defense can serve a purpose if used correctly. TW

 

[MJS]

Sure cardio kickboxing is a fad or another new way to exercise. I think that is the point. It gets people in the door to exercise. Maybe to get stronger and healthier, maybe even help in the weight loss. It was not meant to be a self-defense system. Our kickboxing is kicking and punching a bag, pushups, crunches etc. Its a workout. But most people can't take a cardio workout like that for more than 30-40 minutes or so kicking sometimes over their head. I keep them going. Right now I have newbies which can't take much...they think I kill them. Not hardly. But that is their level, right now...and slowly increasing. Now, I have some 20-30 minutes also to fill. Since, the participants of my cardio kickboxing class are already students in TKD, they have alot of self defense already. What they came for was the cardio and strength training. I might help them with their self-defense requirements but most of the time I use to do stretches afterwards.

Sometimes new people will come in just for kickboxing not martial arts. That is the opportunity I have to show them some self-defense. Actually "some" is better than nothing. I just show a few basic techniques and ingrain and strengthen them each week when they come-instead of all the stretching time. No, they aren't invincible, and I tell them that. But they do get stronger and I have seen alot of women going into regular TKD classes because of the intro from cardiokickboxing. So don't knock it. Cardio kickboxing with or without self-defense can serve a purpose if used correctly. TW

Agreed, it is another way to exercise. I am certainly not disputing that. What I am disputing is when people say that they will learn SD, how to throw punches and kicks, etc. How can someone who is not a MA instructor, properly train someone to throw a punch and a kick, when they don't know themselves? Now, if the instructor has a background in Martial Arts, thats one thing, but I doubt that they all have that background.

Mike

 

[47MartialMan]

This is true. Look at BJJ. Once the UFC came out it seemed like everyone was running out to get certified from the Gracies.

This just goes to show the importance of asking questions before you join something. If you're going to pay for something, you certainly want to make sure its worth it.

Mike

yes, but when you are young, there is a certain gullible attitude one has. I was also that way a long time ago.

 

[MJS]

yes, but when you are young, there is a certain gullible attitude one has. I was also that way a long time ago.

Very true. I think we can all say that at one point we did something without giving it a 2nd thought. That old saying "You learn from your mistakes!" comes to mind here!

Mike

 

[47MartialMan]

Very true. I think we can all say that at one point we did something without giving it a 2nd thought. That old saying "You learn from your mistakes!" comes to mind here!

Mike

Yet, when I post something that I have done, it gets flamed. However, I am not trying to flame cardio kickboxing or kickboxing.

But so far, the cardio kickboxing I had encounter, did not appear to be SD or a martial art.

 

[MJS]

I'm certainly not trying to flame it either. I just feel that things should be explained without having that cloud of mystery hanging overhead. If I'm going to be spending money I want to get the real thing, not something disguised.

As I said, it does provide an excellent source for cardio, but that is how it should be billed.

Just my thoughts.

Mike

 

[Simon Curran]

Sure cardio kickboxing is a fad or another new way to exercise. I think that is the point. It gets people in the door to exercise. Maybe to get stronger and healthier, maybe even help in the weight loss. It was not meant to be a self-defense system. Our kickboxing is kicking and punching a bag, pushups, crunches etc. Its a workout. But most people can't take a cardio workout like that for more than 30-40 minutes or so kicking sometimes over their head. I keep them going. Right now I have newbies which can't take much...they think I kill them. Not hardly. But that is their level, right now...and slowly increasing. Now, I have some 20-30 minutes also to fill. Since, the participants of my cardio kickboxing class are already students in TKD, they have alot of self defense already. What they came for was the cardio and strength training. I might help them with their self-defense requirements but most of the time I use to do stretches afterwards.

Sometimes new people will come in just for kickboxing not martial arts. That is the opportunity I have to show them some self-defense. Actually "some" is better than nothing. I just show a few basic techniques and ingrain and strengthen them each week when they come-instead of all the stretching time. No, they aren't invincible, and I tell them that. But they do get stronger and I have seen alot of women going into regular TKD classes because of the intro from cardiokickboxing. So don't knock it. Cardio kickboxing with or without self-defense can serve a purpose if used correctly. TW

It is great that you also offer some SD training to the none martial artists you are instructing, but I would think that you are more like the minority than the majority.:asian:

 

[47MartialMan]

It is great that you also offer some SD training to the none martial artists you are instructing, but I would think that you are more like the minority than the majority.:asian:

I have to agree. So far anyone whom i know to teach or go to it, are not martial art realted per self defense.

It is good that a martial art school teach it verses a gym. TigerWoman has the advantage and the better situation.

 

[Simon Curran]

I have to agree. So far anyone whom i know to teach or go to it, are not martial art realted per self defense.

It is good that a martial art school teach it verses a gym. TigerWoman has the advantage and the better situation.

My thoughts exactly, I think it really becomes a problem, though, when the unsuspecting "customer" is led to believe that what they are practising could actually be used in a self defence context.

 

[47MartialMan]

My thoughts exactly, I think it really becomes a problem, though, when the unsuspecting "customer" is led to believe that what they are practising could actually be used in a self defence context.

So do you think these non-martial art cardio instructors should have people understand that what they do is not exactly fighting/defense?

 

[Simon Curran]

So do you think these non-martial art cardio instructors should have people understand that what they do is not exactly fighting/defense?

I think that they should make it clear that whilst what they are learning may look like self defence, without timing distancing etc then it will not be self defence, merely punching into the wind.

 

[47MartialMan]

I think that they should make it clear that whilst what they are learning may look like self defence, without timing distancing etc then it will not be self defence, merely punching into the wind.

Exactly, but watch out, they now have those free-standing dummies.

On a off-topic note...I notice a "flag" next to your name. What nationality is it if I may ask?