Cage Match: Wing Chun vs. Grappler

[Si-Je]

Novemember, fight is on!
Can't wait! Just a try-out fight, promoter wants to see how WC fighter is in ring against experienced grappler and cage fighter.
Wish us luck!
talk the talk, better walk the walk, so here we go.....

 

[theletch1]

Best of luck. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Journeyman]

Good luck. Martial artists who are willing to step up have my respect win or lose.

 

[Brian S]

My money says he won't be using WC if he wins,lol.

 

[sgtmac_46]

My money says he won't be using WC if he wins,lol.

Uhm....something tells me you're right. There are some things you just picture the outcome in your head before it ever even happens.

 

[Odin]

Do you know what the rules are?

 

[Nolerama]

Post video, please.

 

[terryl965]

Where so I can come see

 

[Si-Je]

Wing Chun all the way babies! lol!
I can't wait!
Will post video when we get it done in Nov.

Terry, gonna contact promoter again and get all details. We're stuck in Dallas with no car, and it's a bit of a hassle getting to Arlington right now. We've got a ride for the fight, but he put him on the card pretty quick. Quess he's thinking that WC would be no big deal.
Yippie! I love it when they underestimate you!
Gives you a chance earlier than if they think you can really win.

I think of poor Kimbo. A great striker, and they ruined him! Everytime he trys to grapple he gets hurt and beaten. Dumb. They should have focused on his strengths, and made his striking better. Teach him how to avoid takedowns and get out of holds, but, ultimately to get back on his feet and strike. Dude hits harder than Tyson! (arguably) but hard nevertheless.
Point being.
Wing Chun all the way. Two styles of WC/WT in the ring. From a fighter than has had 10+ years training in both styles of WC/WT. Not a novice. Not half a** training WC/WT. A devoted practitioner than fully understands WC/WT.
It's gonna be bad a**!
love ya'll!
WOOOT!

 

[Skpotamus]

Wing Chun all the way babies! lol!

I think of poor Kimbo. A great striker, and they ruined him! Everytime he trys to grapple he gets hurt and beaten. Dumb. They should have focused on his strengths, and made his striking better. Teach him how to avoid takedowns and get out of holds, but, ultimately to get back on his feet and strike. Dude hits harder than Tyson! (arguably) but hard nevertheless.
Point being.
quote]

Based on what you posted here, you're either completely ignorant of all things fighting related, most especially boxing and standup skills, or trolling us.

Either way, good luck with your fight and post that video.

 

[Si-Je]

Ouch!
Just posting what I think, feel, and know. Your opinion of me is based on your ignorance of me, my fighting style, and philosophy.
But, I ain't mad at ya.

I still stick to what I've said forever on this thread. When you fight, stick to what you train, what you know, and the style you've been devoting your training to. If you change your fighting style for someone else, then you negate all of your training. Thus, placing yourself at a disadvantage.
Kimbo knew nothing of grappling and BJJ. three to six months is not enough training to fight someone that has possibly devoted years to wrestling, grappling, etc.

But, that's my main problem with MMA. They don't devote enough time in training one art or style before cross trainning another. Therefore, you cannot have a full understanding of what you train, and it becomes brawling, winning based on strength, and dumb luck.

Some MMA guys devote a year or more to BJJ or Muy Tai, or boxing etc. And these fighters stand out in the ring. Because their strengths in fighting come out in competition, and they stick with their training and style of fighting.

Same same here. He's just going to use a style that no one else uses. Something different. New (but old to those that train it.)
Just hoping that we can get him in good enough condition before the fight. He does have a day job, and he can't workout 4-8 hours a day like these guys tend to do.

But, then, it's Wing Chun. He shouldn't need alot of strength, just alot of cardio and calestinics.

 

[Tez3]

A novice MMA fighter shouldn't be fighting an experienced MMA fighter.
Si-je with the greatest respect in the world I don't think you know much about MMA or MMA fighters, they don't just train a little of this a little of that and hash it together. They train to be MMA fighters, most if not all do have a core style, I also know a couple of fighters whose core style is WC, it's not that unusual a style.
You can't just base your opinion on MMA on Kimbo bless him! MMA isn't brawling based on luck etc there's far more to it than that and I'm afraid you are insulting our intelligence if you think otherwise. You are talking about well trained well rounded fighters not just people who cobble together a style.
To a certain extent you have to adapt your style of fighting to how your opponent is, you do know who the opponent is? How many fights has he had and is he mainly a standup or floor fighter? What rules are you fighting under? What weight is the fight at?
Your opponent will be studying how your fighter is going to fight, he and his team will be putting together tactics that will negate your guys moves. You have to do the same, MMA isn't called physical chess for nothing.
Most MMA fighters have day jobs, if you are fighting someone who is training 6-8 hours a day you are fighting a professional fighter and I recommned you get out now.
Si-Je I'm sorry if this sounds discouraging, I'm really worried that this is going to end badly because of your naivety and I would be really sorry if that happened.

 

[Skpotamus]

I apologize if my post sounded rude.....it was rude and disrespectful. I wasn't sure if you were someone trying to troll on an internet forum (lots of that) or someone very new to MMA competitions. I made an assumption and well... I made an @$$ of myself.

Let me rephrase my post in a hopefully helpful, and not quite so disrespectful way.

Kimbo is and was an undisciplined brawler with no training. He made a name for himself on youtube by posting videos of himself beating on random thugs in boatyards, backyards and alleys. his boxing is really sloppy, he has no defensive skills, he's flat footed with no lateral movement, he has no headmovement and his punches are what we call "arm punches", meaning his body isn't being torgued into his punches (which is where all of your power comes from for boxing punches). He's been pushed hard by a promotor to sell more tickets and PPV buys. He's been fed a string of low level fighters and hyped to ridiculous levels. His first three opponents have a combined record of 33 wins-34 losses. His last opponentw as supposed to be Ken shamrock, an old fighter who hasn't won a fight in 4 years of active competition (and only won 2 since 2000). His opponent was changed to a light heavyweight (205lb fighter vs Kimbo's 240lbs), and he got KO'ed with a jab. After the fight, his "posse" threatened Seth Petruzelli and his wife. Threats of shooting and rape were actually made. Not exactly a classy group of people.


You need to be careful jumping into mma without having good crosstraining and a good gym and an experienced MMA coach to get you ready. You need to have a manager that will not screw you over or let the promotors screw you over. A young fighter should be matched up against other young fighters with similar backgrounds to let them grow and have competitive fights. Many promotors though, will throw a first time fighter in with another fighter with as many as 30 professional fights so they can have exciting fights (read that bloodbath), or to give the hometown fighter a win in front of their fans. I've even seen promotors put new fighters in with much heavier, more experienced fighters so they could give the crowd an exciting knockout. You should do research on your opponent and find out how many fights they've had, what their background is, etc, and train for it accordingly.

I usually recommend people find some fights closer to their comfort zone before jumping into MMA. EX, for a wing chun practitioner, I would suggest trying to get into a few Muay Thai, san shou or kickboxing matches to get a feel for real full contact and find out what you might need to change to become functional against other styles. All the while learning some grappling and groundfighting. Then getting some matches in BJJ tournaments, submission tournies, etc to get comfortable with groundfighting. Then bringing it all together with an MMA match.

Jumping stragiht into MMA without having crosstrained is a good way to lose, and possibly get hurt. Especially if you don't have a manager or a good promotor watching out for your interests.

Going into a MMA fight without proper prepartion is actually disrespectful to the sport of MMA and some fighters will go out of their way to hurt people who do that because they feel like they're being disrespected (I've seen people snap arms and hold chokes for way too long over that before).

Most MMA fighters spend years training in various styles to gain proficiency. We're not talking about one or two, but many spend 10+ years studying one style and then begin crosstraining (spending years studying that style as well) to be ready for a MMA fight. Those are the successful fighters. The ones that haven't thoroughly crosstrained have lost, most of the times regardless of their skill levels.

EX Maurice Smith - one of the most succesful kickboxers in american history. His record in professional kickboxing against world class competition - 63-11-4, with 45 of those wins coming by KO. One of, if not the best kickboxers to come out of the US.

He jumped into MMA, expecting to be able to beat grapplers and cross trained fighters by "just hitting them before htey took him down" (his words form an interview). His current record when in MMA: 12-11. He lost almost as many fights as he won. A truly elite world class standup fighter who has trouble breaking .500 in MMA. Why? He didn't crosstrain and round out his world class striking with good, solid grappling and groundfighting.

EX2: Royce gracie. The legend. The man who made MMA popular. He dominated the early UFC's with his mastery of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. He never evolved his game though. He never crosstrained. His BJJ was the same he'd trained from infancy. He was a true master of BJJ, but his wrestling was horrible, and his striking was pathetic. When he returned to competition he was no longer dominant. His record from 2000 on is 3-2-2. With one of those wins being tainted by the fact he was caught using steroids. The other two wins were against fighters with a combined MMA record of 3-17. Not exactly breathtaking performances.

Thsoe two examples are of elite, world class athletes who failed to cross train for mma and paid for it when the competition begain to crosstrain.

All of the current high level competitors and champions in any organization are highly crosstrained. Most have high level skills in every facet of the MMA fight game.

I would suggest that you go to a MMA school and practice with some of the experienced mma students before you decide to try a full out fight. It can be truly eye opening as to what you can and cannot do under real pressure and a lot safer than getting into a cage or ring with a promotor that might just want to see you get hurt so they can sell more tickets at their next show.

I hope this helps a little bit more than my last post.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

[MJS]

This is a question for Si-Je

Has your husband ever done any cage fighting before? If so, what is his experience with it?

Has he done any grappling aside from the anti-grappling that is usually taught in WC?

How long has your husband been training in WC?

What is the training experience of the person he is fighting?


Don't take this as me slamming your husband or the art that you both train. Just trying to get a better understanding of his training time as well as the other person.

Mike

 

[Journeyman]

Si-Ji's husband isn't jumping straight into MMA. The cage match she's talking about is a san shou contest. Seems like a reasonable approach for a wing chun practitioner.

 

[Nolerama]

There should be some concern as to what kind of style his opponent practices. What if it's another WCer, who has 10 years in Judo competition? Or a Greco guy? Takedowns turn into slams in those competitions.

Si Je's husband should still concern himself with his opponent. It's not an ego thing... It's common sense.

 

[Si-Je]

Okay guys, I do apologize. We usually chat on the WC forum and ya'll aren't familiar with us.
My hubbie is a third don in Kempo, a first degree blackbelt in judo, and a Level 5 techician under two different masters. WC and WT stylists.
He's trained WC/WT for over 13 years.
He was MCMAP instructor in the Marine Corps.
Marine Force Recon.
College Wrestler and football.

He has fought San Shau fights before on a raised ring, with NO ropes.
He is 7-1 in San Shau. TaiJi Legacy.
These are cometitions where you fight 3, 3 minute rounds each fighter. You fight generally 3-7 different fighters that same day. You know nothing of these fighters before you fight.

The kid hubbie is fighting is younger than him. Probably 5-10 years, we don't know or care.
They will both be 235lbs or so, again doesn't matter.
The fighting rules are San Shau based. Takedowns allowed and points given, just no ground fighting. Fighters will be pulled up to fight again.
But, this could change at a moments notice.
The opponent is a grappler. MMA stylist. Again it doesn't matter.
The backup opponent weighs 250lbs. and is a striker.
We don't know anything about the fighters record, whatever. See,...

With WC you do not anticipate the fighter, their attack style, moves, or intention. This will hinder you. You adapt immediately and use the energy they give you when they attack. We train to improvise immediately. To feel constantly, and to stay relaxed and deflect the oppoent. Whether they grapple you, try a takedown, kick, puch, feint doesn't matter.
You are taking their space away by constantly moving forward defending and attacking at the same time.
This is not always actually done by some WC practitioners in a fight. Why? I don't know. That's how we train. We kick, "block", punch and step forward into your attack at the same time, following up with chainpunching never giving any fighter the chance to re-collect and get a "game plan" of attack or defense together.

It's very aggressive, very brutal, and very quick. To qote homer simpson, "respond with swift and blinding violence!" lol! (JJ)

The main thing I'm worried about is that he may lose to disqualification. But, I think he's familiar enough with San Shau rules from experience, should be okay. If they let it go to the ground and continue. I'm not sure if he may accidentially break a rule or two because of the anti-grappling.
We'll see.

As for Kimbo. I only brought him up as an example of what happens when you take a fighter and make him fight a way that doesn't play to his/her strengths. Should've refined his striking techniques, and focused on teaching him escapes for the grappling and BJJ holds. To get back on his feet to strike (his strength) asap. Would have been better for him.
As for him threatening people, that sucks. And again, I ment to use him as an example of what happens to a fighter when you mess with his style too much too soon. He needed more time to learn BJJ before using it in a fight.
love ya'll!

 

[Tez3]

If this is a San Shou match it isn't MMA. Si-Je you should have posted this in one of the CMA forums not the MMA one as it's misleading. This is nothing like an MMA competition, there's no ground fighting for a start.
I have a question though, if it's a San Shou competition surely the WC style of fighting won't come as any surprise to people who practice a CMA?
Kimbo doesn't have a 'style', he's the wrong person to use as an example of MMA.

 

[Si-Je]

It is an MMA match in a Cage. Just that it's in Texas and the promoter doesn't want to pay the boxing commision. (that's all I can figure)
I think he's lying to us.
But, it's basic san shau rules.
Jesse's ready to go to the ground if needed. It's a cage match. so, I'm thinking that it will go to that and they won't break it if it does.
Opps... I mean hubbie.

But, what does it matter? It's a cage match, between a striker and a grappler? I thought that was weird. Why match a striker against a grappler if the grappler can't grapple on the ground?

Anyways,
it's a fight. and he found the promoter... not me.
I've never met the dude.
when hubbie fights, and wins. me and the promoter will talk.
And it won't be a pretty talk.
I'll have to take care of this crap! Money. ... I hate money talks... it should be a given.
If he gives a good show, then he should be paid.

Sorry, Tez, we are not usually like this, but people don't have medical and such these days. You wouldn't believe how expensive food is here in America!!!
ack!
forget gas!
It's a depression, I don't care what anyone says. And he will win. He just need shorts and gloves.
We'll find a way to get those in the next month. but,, it'll get in the way of food.
bummer...

Anyways, ... I'll handle the promoter. This fight is just the "try-out"fight. When he sees hubbie and everyone there, then, well... I'll really need your advice on how to deal with these people!

 

[Si-Je]

In Texas, if you fight to the ground, you have to be certified with the boxing commision to fight.
and you can only fight once every three months.
But, with San Shau you can fight as many times as you can, and you don't need as much regulations.

You just can't wrestle on the ground. (don't ask me how the boxing commision here has authority over wrestling or BJJ/MAA fights here, they just do.)
We're trying to work around that, and get a paid fight, maybe in his second or third fight..