Bouncers not guilty of manslaughter.

[Thems Fighting Words]

Was reading an article on how three Australian bouncers were found not guilty of manslaughter. The article is here: http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2009/apr/30/aap-bouncers-not-guilty-of-manslaughter/

The interesting thing about this is that when it first came to light, the man in question was portrayed by his family as being active, fit and healthy. The bouncers were demonized (which seemed to be flavor of the month at the time) and a whole bunch of other stories were brought up to accuse bouncers of being a bunch of thugs (including other deaths).

So as bouncers (I'm not one myself, but have known many and been entertained by their tales), what are your thoughts on this story? Have you had similar problems with patrons whose injuries were blamed on you but were more likely their own fault; whether morbidly obese, overly intoxicated, lacking a brain etc?

 

[bigdano]

sorry, cannot read the article, the link isn't working anymore.

 

[Nolerama]

I've been in altercations but each one has never been to "win." Each altercation, while bouncing at a club has been to diffuse the situation.

The most physical I've ever been was maybe applying a takedown and pinning the guy while my second called the cops.

Leave a mark on a customer? That's pretty stupid. It shows you let your ego get the best of you and your MA. Besides, it adds liability to yourself and the bar you work for. Permanently maim/injure/scar a customer? I'd fire one of my bouncers on the spot for that sort of behavior.

The next "bouncer" I hire is going to be an athletic female who knows how to talk to people. This "Roadhouse" crap gets to too many guys' heads.

Bouncers aren't supposed to be violent, they're there to prevent violence by thinking (getting the bartender to cut off a customer and calling a cab is a whole lot better than beating the crap out of him in the alley way). I've done that to cocky, off-duty cops who had one too many and have been thanked by their sergeants and lieutenants for accommodating them. What "works" in the bouncing business is a lot more finesse than the common stereotype of a bouncer. You eject someone via a lack of options for them, and reasoning (yes, even drunks can reason).

Bouncers who basically break the law by hurting people? Let them rot in jail.

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

Unfortunately not all bouncers possess the talent to talk down a situation nor possess any real martial arts skill (I've heard and encountered a lot of shockers). Also I have known and been involved in situations where escalation was immediate or where bouncers were purposely targeted. Not saying such is the case with the above article (posted it awhile back and link no longer works) nor am I advocating more brutal bouncers. Just pointing out that some patrons are total idiots but it often ends up being security workers who get the blame.

 

[Nolerama]

Oh, I completely understand customers escalating and going after the bouncer.

But it's all in posturing. Standing cross-armed (which is pretty dumb in a SD situation anyway) and "looking tough" automatically escalates the situation.

What about a handshake on the way in? Friendly customer service?

Those seem to work better. Even the rowdy drunks will think twice before attacking what they think is a friendly. It's not 100%, but it certainly buffers/helps prevent a nasty situation.

 

[celtic_crippler]

A bouncer's greatest asset is diplomacy.

 

[Thems Fighting Words]

I agree and the fact that Private Prisons are looking to use more women guards (due to their non-confrontational demeanor), a lot of other people would also agree that diplomacy is most important. But what happens when diplomacy fails or is lacking? Who get's the blame for an injured patron? Is it always the security worker's fault?

 

[sgtmac_46]

I agree and the fact that Private Prisons are looking to use more women guards (due to their non-confrontational demeanor), a lot of other people would also agree that diplomacy is most important. But what happens when diplomacy fails or is lacking? Who get's the blame for an injured patron? Is it always the security worker's fault?

Prisons are looking to use more women guards to meet the diversity quota......not that there aren't some darn good CO's, but it's not because of gender......it's because they as individuals have good solid traits.

That aside, you make an excellent point......it's always about striking a balance.......being too confrontational is to start problems that don't need to start.......not being confrontational enough is to allow problems to escalate far further than they need to go.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Oh, I completely understand customers escalating and going after the bouncer.

But it's all in posturing. Standing cross-armed (which is pretty dumb in a SD situation anyway) and "looking tough" automatically escalates the situation.

What about a handshake on the way in? Friendly customer service?

Those seem to work better. Even the rowdy drunks will think twice before attacking what they think is a friendly. It's not 100%, but it certainly buffers/helps prevent a nasty situation.

I like the policy that if you get a little rowdy, and leave when asked, you're welcomed back next time.......have to be bumped and you're banned for life.


A lot of running a good bar is knowing what clientele you want, and what clientele you don't want........and weeding out all those who cause problems without offending the rest.......so you're absolutely right, it's a business, and the customer principle needs to apply..........get a reputation for heavy-handed bouncers will hurt business.......likewise getting a reputation for an out of control environment will hurt business.

Like I always say.......talk NICE, think MEAN!

 

[sgtmac_46]

Unfortunately not all bouncers possess the talent to talk down a situation nor possess any real martial arts skill (I've heard and encountered a lot of shockers). Also I have known and been involved in situations where escalation was immediate or where bouncers were purposely targeted. Not saying such is the case with the above article (posted it awhile back and link no longer works) nor am I advocating more brutal bouncers. Just pointing out that some patrons are total idiots but it often ends up being security workers who get the blame.

The best bouncers i've seen have had the ability to see a fight coming a half hour before it even starts........being able to read a scene, and see who's dancing with who, who's staring at who, who's way too drunk.

Once you've identified a future problem, stopping it before it starts by herding one or two individuals out, quietly..........versus dealing with a full blown brawl 20 minutes later.


What's required are bouncers who are good observers......who know how to leave their egos outside and be professionals.......who CAN take care of business when it's necessary.......but who will avoid it if it's not.