Black Belt Vs. Eagle Scout on a CV

Makalakumu

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An interesting thought occurred to me whilst listening to a podcast. The last episode of the BJJ Fightworks podcast featured the individual who stopped a man from attacking a police officer in San Fransisco and one of the things he kept repeating was that you needed to be a black belt in real life and not just in the dojo. According to him, being a black belt in jujutsu meant that you learned how to respect others and that you were a quality individual and that you had proved something about yourself. This is a common attitude towards the achievement of a black belt and it is often cultivated by dojos.

Putting my preamble aside, lets assume that having a black belt in a martial art might mean all of those things. Would this be something that you would put down on your Curriculum Vitae? How does it compare to other hobbies that show personal development like earning an Eagle Scout rank in the Boy Scouts? If you compare earning a black belt to earning your Eagle Scout rank, which would you consider to be more prestigious? What do you think would shine brighter on a CV? Why?

I'm interested in hearing what everyone thinks. As a parent, the CV issue is actually a proxy question for a larger issue. What would you consider to be better benchmark for personal growth and development, a black belt in a martial art or an Eagle Scout rank?

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Bill Mattocks

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In my opinion, hobbies do not belong on a resume anymore. That's 20 years ago - or longer. Hobbies and extracurricular activities do not interest a potential employer, and frankly, they shy away from even knowing, lest they be held against them if they choose not to hire ("You refused to hire me because I said I was President of the Teddy Bear Guys Who Wear Leather on Weekends Club!"). They don't want to know, you don't want to tell them. Stick to education, experience, and a targeted statement of interest. About the only things that might help on a resume outside of that are professional certifications and industry awards or professional publications.
 

CoryKS

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Depends on whether you are applying for a job as a scoutmaster or a martial arts instructor. Otherwise, I don't see the relevance.
 

Steve

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An interesting thought occurred to me whilst listening to a podcast. The last episode of the BJJ Fightworks podcast featured the individual who stopped a man from attacking a police officer in San Fransisco and one of the things he kept repeating was that you needed to be a black belt in real life and not just in the dojo. According to him, being a black belt in jujutsu meant that you learned how to respect others and that you were a quality individual and that you had proved something about yourself. This is a common attitude towards the achievement of a black belt and it is often cultivated by dojos.

Putting my preamble aside, lets assume that having a black belt in a martial art might mean all of those things. Would this be something that you would put down on your Curriculum Vitae? How does it compare to other hobbies that show personal development like earning an Eagle Scout rank in the Boy Scouts? If you compare earning a black belt to earning your Eagle Scout rank, which would you consider to be more prestigious? What do you think would shine brighter on a CV? Why?
I've never received a CV for employment, but I do get resumes with cover letters or letters of intent. A black belt in an MA or Eagle Scout isn't interesting to me unless you tie it to a business need. Essentially, I'd find it out of place on a resume, and would only welcome it on a cover letter/letter of intent if it were specifically relevant to the position I'm filling.
I'm interested in hearing what everyone thinks. As a parent, the CV issue is actually a proxy question for a larger issue. What would you consider to be better benchmark for personal growth and development, a black belt in a martial art or an Eagle Scout rank?

Aloha
Ahh... here's an interesting question. I'd say that it depends ENTIRELY on the black belt earned. The criteria for earning Eagle Scout is detailed and consistent.

Speaking frankly, I'd be impressed with a black belt in BJJ, but likely not impressed... or more accurately, I'd be indifferent to most other styles. Not because I doubt the person's skill or don't like their style. Really, only because in every other style I can think of, there is inconsistency. It could be very meaningful... or not worth the $10 it cost to buy the belt at the store.
 
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Makalakumu

Makalakumu

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We regularly teach students how to make CV's for themselves and applying for college. It's still common for younger people to list hobbies and other activities. I agree, it's not really appropriate for adults applying for professional jobs unless it directly relates. For the sake of discussion, assume that putting it on a CV actually matters.
 
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Makalakumu

Makalakumu

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Ahh... here's an interesting question. I'd say that it depends ENTIRELY on the black belt earned. The criteria for earning Eagle Scout is detailed and consistent.

Speaking frankly, I'd be impressed with a black belt in BJJ, but likely not impressed... or more accurately, I'd be indifferent to most other styles. Not because I doubt the person's skill or don't like their style. Really, only because in every other style I can think of, there is inconsistency. It could be very meaningful... or not worth the $10 it cost to buy the belt at the store.

That is the huge difference in my mind. Eagle Scouts are vetted and uniform in skills, much more so then Black Belts. This may give more prestige to the Eagle Scout ranking.
 

Steve

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That is the huge difference in my mind. Eagle Scouts are vetted and uniform in skills, much more so then Black Belts. This may give more prestige to the Eagle Scout ranking.
I would agree. In fact, depending on the current state of martial arts, your black belt could generate a negative impression. For example, if the selecting official has experience in a TMA and is inclined to believe that MMA'ists are thugs, listing BJJ (and it's close association to MMA) could backfire.

At the same time, even people who aren't associated with, or even who have a negative association with scouting understand the hard work, dedication and character represented by earning Eagle Scout.
 

bushidomartialarts

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A few thoughts:

Both are pretty good. Folks who don't know tend to overestimate how awesome it means you are. Folks who do know have something in common with you.

In terms of "no hobbies on the resume," that's fair -- but it could go under "awards and accomplishments -- especially if you're a young person entering the market"

Finally, am I alone in wondering if the Eagle Badge might seem hinky to some employers. Boy Scouting's been getting kind of a bad rap in the past decade or so...

Just my two cents.
 

shima

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I would agree. In fact, depending on the current state of martial arts, your black belt could generate a negative impression. For example, if the selecting official has experience in a TMA and is inclined to believe that MMA'ists are thugs, listing BJJ (and it's close association to MMA) could backfire.

At the same time, even people who aren't associated with, or even who have a negative association with scouting understand the hard work, dedication and character represented by earning Eagle Scout.

On the flip side if you've helped assistant teach a lot as a black belt, I would totally list it along w/ the fact that you assist in class to show that you're a role model, as opposed to a thug.
 
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Brian R. VanCise

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In my line of work it was always a bonus as it was relevant. My wife is a physician and when her CV was looked over for residency coming out of Medical School only two things were circled where she ended up. 1. Her martial training and 2. Here incredibly high USMLE scores. I don't think it hurts one bit and may just give you an advantage!
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Carol

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My martial arts training has helped me land my last two jobs. ;)
 

mook jong man

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I wouldn't mention it at all that you do martial arts , if you do get the job and other workers find out you can be in for a hard time.
When I worked in a factory I got the impression that half the blokes were intimidated by it , and the rest tended to make stupid Bruce Lee noises and try to throw punches at you to see how good you were.
The few that did try got a bit of a shock and were inclined to never try again , but it's not a good look when the foreman walks past and sees you doing it.
 
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Makalakumu

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On my professional resume, I list both my Scouting experience and my martial arts experience. It's a very small section at the end behind my professional experience and education, but I feel like it's made the difference in an interview or two. My current administrator has valued both and has said so...in fact, he became a karate student of mine shortly after I started. So, yeah, having a black belt made a difference. How big of a difference is debatable.

As far as my personal development is concerned, however, I felt that Scouting had a more immediate impact on my life. As an adolescent, I pretty much got to apply the moral teachings directly in my life and activities through it. It's only been as I've grown older that I've come to understand martial arts for the metaphor it can be when it comes to personal development. I don't know if that applies to everyone, but that's my story.
 

rlobrecht

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Thanks for starting this thread.

I manage people at work, and have seen a lot of resumes.

If someone has graduated college within the last handful of years (or so) and had Eagle Scout on it, I would definitely give them a second look. I would expect that ten years later, the experience, leadership skills, etc. would reflect itself in the other experience, and would no longer be necessary.

I would hesitate to put martial artist on a resume. Most people don't recognize the dedication a black belt requires (even a 2 year McDojo Black Belt shows some level of dedication.) Many people are intimidated by someone who's a martial artist. They might even fear that you're a violent bully.

As a youth, I didn't finish my Eagle Scout (still kicking myself 20+ years later) and only made it halfway to black belt. Now as a parent, I'm leading young Scouts, and am 3 weeks away from my 1st Dan test.

Rick
 

Bill Mattocks

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Let's not assume people have a favorable opinion of martial arts or scouting. Both have, shall we say, been known to attract sex offenders. I happen to know a woman who would not want to have anything to do with a martial artist due to an experience when she was younger. Would you want her reading your resume?

On a more mundane level, I've heard people say "Oh, you do martial arts? I thought that was for kids." And the ever favorite, "Oh, then you must compete and get hurt a lot, huh? Lots of sports-related injuries."

A resume is for one thing - to get you an interview. Nothing else. If you turn someone off with the resume, you never get to the part where you explain no, martial arts is not just for kids, or no, you don't lose a lot of time due to sports injuries. You just won't get the phone call for the interview.

Sorry, you asked; my response is the same. It doesn't belong on the resume at all.
 

bushidomartialarts

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That's a fair point, Bill. I've never held it against a resume I read, but then I have a very positive view of both activities.

If that's how it is out there, I'm screwed. The past 10 years of my resume have been in the martial arts industry. Doesn't matter how I spin it, the paper gives my black belts away.
 
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Makalakumu

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Nice counter point, Bill. Sometimes standing out isn't a good thing. People have all kinds of view points about things and there is no reason to expect that they are the same as yours.
 

ralphmcpherson

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As an employer myself, I must say that I would be impressed by 'black belt' on their resume under achievments etc. In most systems black belts are expected to instruct to some degree, this alone would make me think the candidate has some good 'people skills' and is good at relaying information to others. Also, in a world where people have no attention span anymore and change hobbies like they change their clothes, it is a breathe of fresh air to meet someone who is able to actually stick with something long term through the good and the bad. Most people cant last 6 months in almost any past time so to hear that someone has trained for 4 or 5 years or more would be a positive. Also, most MA's reqiure a certain degree of physical fitness (particularly by black belt) and I am a firm believer in 'health body healthy mind'. And yes, I have employed somebody who had their MA background mentioned, they were a 3rd dan in tkd and at that point I was yet to start in martial arts. It wasnt the only thing that got him the job, but it certainly helped.
 

Balrog

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An interesting thought occurred to me whilst listening to a podcast. The last episode of the BJJ Fightworks podcast featured the individual who stopped a man from attacking a police officer in San Fransisco and one of the things he kept repeating was that you needed to be a black belt in real life and not just in the dojo. According to him, being a black belt in jujutsu meant that you learned how to respect others and that you were a quality individual and that you had proved something about yourself. This is a common attitude towards the achievement of a black belt and it is often cultivated by dojos.

Putting my preamble aside, lets assume that having a black belt in a martial art might mean all of those things. Would this be something that you would put down on your Curriculum Vitae?
It's on mine.

It's there because it shows perseverance, dedication and leadership. These are attributes that most employers are looking for.
 

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