Avoiding a McDojo MMA School

[LoneRider]

With the popularity of MMA these days, I've heard that MMA is the new McDojo, in the way Karate/TaeKwonDo was in the '70s-'90s. I'm in the Navy right now and I'm fixing to switch into the US Army after my time is up in September of next year (I'll be going to Iraq in January as an Individual Augmentee after training starts in October). I'm looking into entering an MMA/BJJ type school once I've gotten settled (about late 2009-2010). What I'm looking for is a school to practice BJJ (for my ground game which is lacking) as well as one that can really help me put my striking game together.

My introductory post should give a rundown of my martial arts background (mostly striking ranging from TKD, western boxing, and Southern Chinese kung fu (Wing Chun) at Centerline Martial Arts in Neptune Beach FL.)

How do I tell that a school is a McDojo? I know that affiliation with ATT/Gracie/Machado can be touted, and isn't always a guarantee of a good MMA school. Any advice?

Lone Rider

 

[punisher73]

Find a list of the schools in your area and ask to watch a class. Also, find out what rankings/credentials the instructor(s) have. Many schools will have a coach/teacher for each part of it. For example, a coach for the boxing or muay thai, and a coach for bjj. If there is only one teacher, again look at how the class is run and what credentials he/she has.

I don't think there is a way to tell right off the bat, it will take a little time and research on your part. Also, ask lots of questions. There are some schools/teachers that just have you beat the crap out of each other and call it MMA without any set structure or curriculum. The teacher has a little bit of knowledge and won't be able to guide you much past very novice levels. Then there are some that slowly integrate the beginning student into full sparring after you have achieved a basic proficiency in striking/grappling so don't just judge a school by how much sparring you see either.

Lastly, find a school that fits with your personality and budget.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Every shool is someone else's Mc Dojo.
sean

 

[ArmorOfGod]

I don't want to redirect the conversation, but are there any boxing or military combative programs offered for your military unit?

AoG

 

[LoneRider]

Well, yes we get basic self defense, which is MMA-esque, but we don't practice it nearly as much in the shipboard Navy which I'm part of. The IA Navy I don't know how much it'll be emphasized, and in the Army I definitely know it'll be emphasized, but I'd like to go into MMA/MA as a non-military sort of thing as well.

 

[TheOriginalName]

Hey there.

What has been suggested is good advice so far.
I would like to add my two cents though - i'm not a fan of MMA delivered in three seperate "packages" (striking, wrestling and ground). What i prefer - and where i think the MMA world will soon be heading - is a fully integrated system, where the three "games" are interwoved.
Now pick which schools deliver this type of approach will be very difficult - but if you can find one i personally think your technique will be ahead of the pack.

That's just my two cents.

At the end of the day though you have to enjoy the school your at. Training should be fun and enjoyable - you don't want to spend 5 or 6 hours a week (or more or less) in a place with people and attitudes you don't mesh with.

Anyway, that's my take of this.........

In either case - best of luck with your upcoming deployment and with your future MA training.

 

[Tez3]

If you end up in Germany I know of an American Army MMA club there, it's run by a seving soldier who's also a pro MMA fighter, he fights over here sometimes and he also runs fight nights in Germany.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-25-150/index.html
Click there to see the 2002 military manual for the military combatives martial arts style.
Field Manual
No. 3-25.150 Headquarters
Department of the Army
Washington, DC, 18 January 2002

AoG

 

[LoneRider]

Hey there. Thanks for the insight and the link. It sounds remarkably similar to MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) training I went through as a Midshipman two years ago during my abortive attempt to become a Marine Officer (due to low class standing and a disciplinary incident (insubordination) during my freshman year at my commissioning source, long story short, not chosen to be a Marine).

 

[terryl965]

Like other have said try the school for yourself, watch some classes and talk to the instructor. That is all anybody can do, McDojo's get used way to often these days by somebody or anybody even by people with little training. Seeing is believing.

 

[ufcgirls]

Like everyone's saying, go to the school, watch the students, and see if you can get to try out the class or a day to a week for free. A lot of credible, schools will allow you to do this. With the expection of the big names which are tourist attractions

Partly for this McDojo reason, we have put together a database of US MMA Schools that where users can search for schools and review them. The site is only in BETA right now, however you're all invited to take a look - fightteam.net

 

[LoneRider]

Thanks for the tip ufcgirls. I liked the website from what I've browsed of it. I'm not trying to be an a**, but I'd like to suggest something: For military folks do you think you could indicate proximity to nearest military installations for some of the schools you put in.

 

[matt.m]

The Army's new combative system is more BJJ than anything. I have seen it, great stuff for P.T. gear but not in full battle gear. Just impractical. Also, MCMAP is more like Hapkido than anything. I was a L.I.N.E. training instructor certified while in the Marines and now have a 1st dan in MCMAP.

 

[Tez3]

I think that in MMA the best places to train won't be places that call themselves 'schools', MMA tends to have clubs/teams or gyms. A small thing perhaps but it will give you a insight to how the people who run it think, they also tend not to be 'instructors' more likely to call themselves coaches. It's more in line with the professional sport attitude, like boxing.
A good place to train MMA will have fighters who compete regularly with a good rate of success against creditable opponents, a place that has all wins is as suspect as one that has all losses.
An MMA gym is a place for fighters, there should be an attitude of hard work, sweat and effort. Training should be hard with enphasis equally on fitness as techniques. What shouldn't be there is an attitude of macho men or of people being buulies. There should be a sense of fun however, the work hard play hard ethos lol!
MMA gyms aren't dojos so shouldn't pretend to be, good ones will be like boxing gyms.
There's quite a few videos online and around of the top gyms showing how they train so have a look at them and find one that resembles them.

http://www.wolfslairmma.co.uk/info.html
http://www.yorkshiremma.co.uk/staff.html

These are two of the best in our country, the rest are run on similar lines and just vary in size. it may give you an idea of what to look for.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

There is an explosion of MMA schools opening up around the United States. Some are very, very qualified with good instructors and some are terrible with the instructor having no more than a weekend or so of training with the group that they have affiliated with. (including almost everybody) It is as always a buyer beware type of situation and look deeply at who you will be training with and their credentials.

 

[K831]

I think that in MMA the best places to train won't be places that call themselves 'schools', MMA tends to have clubs/teams or gyms. A small thing perhaps but it will give you a insight to how the people who run it think, they also tend not to be 'instructors' more likely to call themselves coaches. It's more in line with the professional sport attitude, like boxing.
A good place to train MMA will have fighters who compete regularly with a good rate of success against creditable opponents, a place that has all wins is as suspect as one that has all losses.
An MMA gym is a place for fighters, there should be an attitude of hard work, sweat and effort. Training should be hard with enphasis equally on fitness as techniques. What shouldn't be there is an attitude of macho men or of people being buulies. There should be a sense of fun however, the work hard play hard ethos lol!
MMA gyms aren't dojos so shouldn't pretend to be, good ones will be like boxing gyms.
There's quite a few videos online and around of the top gyms showing how they train so have a look at them and find one that resembles them.

http://www.wolfslairmma.co.uk/info.html
http://www.yorkshiremma.co.uk/staff.html

These are two of the best in our country, the rest are run on similar lines and just vary in size. it may give you an idea of what to look for.

Exactly.

What you see in the students will be the most revealing. There are coaches out there who can fight, but can't teach. How do the students move? What is their work ethic and motivation like? You have boxed, so look for little things in the student; How is their footwork? Are the mechanics correct in their punching technique or is it sloppy? Do all the students have telegraphing issues? Do they just bang away in front of the heavy bag or are they moving, slipping, counter punching? Sloppy students with poor basics indicate a McDojo (or at least a lazy group of coaches) and you won't want to train there.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

There's a chain of schools in my area that used be called ______ ______ Karate, I think there are more than 40 of them in NJ, PA, CT, & FL. Now they are called ________ ________ Mixed Martial Arts. One of my students studied there for about a month. You know the $30 beginer program for 1 month and free uniform with their logo on it. When he started with me he had 3 stripes on his white belt. I asked him what the stripes meant and he told me that he got one for every class he went to and after he got to eight they were going to test him for yellow belt. If you go to their website they have a video of a demo they did for the NY Knicks with about 100 Blackbelts under the age of 10.

Could this be a chain of Mc Dojo's?
Also the guy who started the chain is a highly decorated Martial Artist - 6 x North American Kyokoshinkai Champion. Undefeated in 100s of fights. Creator of his own hybrid style of the most effective techniques. Featured in every major Martial Art Magazine (Black Belt, Karate/Kung Fu Illustrated, etc). Inducted into North American Grappling Association hall of fame in 2005 as a founding member. Claims his organization became number 1 grappling school in North America in 2004.

There is a MMA competition team - they compete in organizations I'm not familiar with as well as some that I am. There are about 20 pro fighters, no big names. I think they also compete within their own organization. They have both wins and losses.

None of this information is fictional - all was taken from conversation with my one student and the organizations website. I don't want to say names because I'm sure they've got a team of lawyers on retainer.

What are your thoughts?

Could this be a chain of Mc Dojo's?


_Don Flatt

 

[Tez3]

If the MMA team is competing against people in promotions other than their own and are doing well, not necessarily winning but able to hold their won against good opponents which means they've been fairly matched, it sounds as if the classes are fine though they may be expensive!
There's no gradings in MMA but fight records should be available on whatever websites do them in America, you'll be able to see who they are fighting and whether they have good matches.
Sounds okay for training but I imagine pricey!!

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Yeah Tez it is a tad pricey - especially when you account for required equipment that you must purchase from them only - gloves, cup, rashguard, head gear, foot and shin protecters, karate gi, board shorts, ear protectors, etc - everything must have their logo on it. Gotta be close to $500 for required equipment.

I did a brief look thru the Pro Fighters' records and it seemed that for the most part they fared better against MMA strikers and didn't do to well against grapplers - both wrestlers and jiujitsuka. Their kickboxing records were much better - a number of them were a part of the organization's team in the World Combat League.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah Tez it is a tad pricey - especially when you account for required equipment that you must purchase from them only - gloves, cup, rashguard, head gear, foot and shin protecters, karate gi, board shorts, ear protectors, etc - everything must have their logo on it. Gotta be close to $500 for required equipment.

I did a brief look thru the Pro Fighters' records and it seemed that for the most part they fared better against MMA strikers and didn't do to well against grapplers - both wrestlers and jiujitsuka. Their kickboxing records were much better - a number of them were a part of the organization's team in the World Combat League.

What on earth do they want karate gis for? All they need is groin guard, gloves, gum shield and shorts without pockets, zips etc, board shorts made for MMA are good but not necessary. Ear protection can be done with cotton wool and tape, cheap and cheerful!
guess it's up to people to decide whether it's worth paying for really and what they want to do MMA for.
We sell kit to help pay for club but we have it made for us and can keep it as cheap as possible. Working it out if people wanted to buy what they needed from us it would cost about a hundred pounds, if they want though they can buy any kit from any where they want up to them.