Athenic vs Spartan

Touch Of Death

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Hi everyone,
I read a book a year or three ago which I think many of you might find interesting. The book is called "Cryptonomicon" by Niel Stephenson. It is a story about the people whom actualy surmised the warcraft of WWII, or at least the egg heads that were thrust into playing field simply because they were the only people alive that could play the game. The story also goes into a post WWII treasure hunt, but the part I found most interesting was the ideas about the mentality of the governments and or people in general. An example would be Spartan or Athenian; Another way of saying this would be forward thinking or backward thinking. There is a danger in both methods of thought. The Spartans were all killed in glorious battle which they all felt was a fitting ending but maybe there was a better way. The Athenians were welcomed any change that would make them better off and were not afraid to craft alternatives to blique situations. I feel Mr. Parkers death has put us in this situation again all be it on a smaller scale. Please read the book if you get a chance but if you think you get the gist of what I am talking about, answer one question. Do you feel you have a Spartan or Athenian view of Kenpo? Why?
 

Blindside

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I think you need more research into the cultures of Sparta and Athens. If you choose to use fictional books as a source of historical cultures try "Gates of Fire" or "Tides of War" by Steven Pressfield. They aren't historically accurate either, but at least they give you a better feel for the cultures than what you have presented here.

Lamont
 
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Touch Of Death

Touch Of Death

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Lamont,
within this fictional book are non-fictional thesis' on the subject so your automatic rejection of what I have suggested in favor of what you already know suggests to me an almost Spartan backward thinking knee jerk reaction. Besides I havn't gone in to any detail on either concept; so, why again I say do you reject a concept you have not made your self the least bit familiar with?

Robert,
I you are both, as I suppose we all are.
 
R

rmcrobertson

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Actually, no. I completely reject these ideas of division into absolute "intellectuals," and absolute, "warriors," which by the way these two societies weren't.

The Athenians weren't democratic, not in our sense, either. And the Spartans apparently weren't exactly what we'd call, "straight." Nor were the Athenians...read the "Symposium."

And both societies lorded it over women, and kept slaves.

It's another of those binary oppositions, and it doesn't reflect the reality of history. Nor does dividing kenpo up this way...

I'm wit' Sigung 86...pick better books. Stephenson's rather derivative--see Jim Dodge, "Cadillac Mountain," Thos. Pynchon, "V.," and "Gravity's Rainbow..."

And, by the way, I also really dislike the term, "warrior," in the martial arts...
 
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Touch Of Death

Touch Of Death

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Originally posted by Sigung86
Maybe because it isn't a very good book? :D
Hey,
Great review of that book you have not read. You really seem to have an insight. Was it the name? Do the Police use you to help find the missing?
 
K

Kirk

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Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Hey,
Great review of that book you have not read. You really seem to have an insight. Was it the name? Do the Police use you to help find the missing?

Interesting .. I'm trying to find the post where he said he didn't
read it, but I can't find it :confused: Perhaps the police use you?
 

Sigung86

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Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Hey,
Great review of that book you have not read. You really seem to have an insight. Was it the name? Do the Police use you to help find the missing?

Once again Touch, you are coming across in a rather lame manner. (Oh, why am I not surprised)? It is not wise to put your hallucinations of behavior and activity on other people. You will come up very wrong more often than not. You will come across, as you have managed to do, yet again ... Woefully short on insight. To succinctly put it another way ... To assume is to make an *** out of U.

I realize that no one likes to have their "good" taste questioned, but, in reality, it just so happens that I have read the book, and didn't really think that much of it. However, as it was recommended to me by a friend, whom by action and presentation, I hallucinate is much smarter than you, who is currently working on a Doctorate in anthropolical anatomy and reconstruction ... That's right TOD ... Can you say scientist? I did give it a fair run, cover-to-cover, to be sure. It just wasn't a very good book. And when I told her that I didn't care for it and why, she assumed that I might have a fair idea of what I am talking about, and am capable of making decisions about what I like and do not like without being a war-like or moronic on her part.

On the other hand, the book probably is good for people who are, or believe they are, tucked into the modern digital society or are wannabes. It is probably escapist for people who haven't had much excitement, or mental stimulation outside of their Kenpo school ... But see? There I go putting my paradigm on you, based on my reaction to your initial, woefully inadequate, guessing game, and chronic bellicose, confrontational manner.

I don't know anything about you other than you hate to be disagreed with. You immediately seem to have to fight with whomsoever has offended your delicate sensibilities; And that, fortunately, happens very often to you, and is something I assume you will either have to learn to get along with eventually, or go through life being disagreeable from the backside of your keyboard, and learning nothing of any value ... And therein lies the issue... I hallucinate to be one of PEBCAK... Problem Exists Between Chair and Keyboard.

You are very much like the man who is standing in a small village in Mexico, yelling at the top of your lungs, "Where is El Bathroomo", and wondering why people don't respond to you. When it might, in fact, be worth your while to learn a bit of the language, and the thought and reasoning behind it... I suspect you would find that if you spoke the language a bit, and approached the natives in a more ammenable manner, they might respond in a little less irritated fashion, and point you to the bathroom.

You see... There I go again, putting my hallucination of a human being on you, and assuming that you might like to interact with people in a reasonably mature, human, fashion.

I would suggest some really great reading to you, but I'm afraid you would simply poo-poo it, so I will leave you to your own literary devices, or leave you with Doctor Bobs really fine recommendations.

As Doc Chapél would say ...

Don't be haten :cool: To which I would add:

Live and learn or end up being alone inyour puddle of inanity.
 
P

ProfessorKenpo

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Originally posted by Sigung86
Once again Touch, you are coming across in a rather lame manner. (Oh why am I not surprised)? It is not wise to put your hallucinations of behavior and activity on other people. You will come up very wrong more often than not. You will come across, as you have managed to do yet again ... Woefully short on insight. To succinctly put it another way ... To assume is to make an *** out of U.

I realize that no one likes to have their "good" taste questioned, but, in reality, it just so happens that I have read it, and didn't really think that much of it. However, as it was recommended to me by a friend, whom by action and presentation, I hallucinate is much smarter than you, I did give it a fair run, cover-to-cover, to be sure. It just wasn't a very good book.

On the other hand, it probably is good for people who are, or believe they are, tucked into the modern digital society or are wannabes. It is probably escapist for people who haven't had much excitement, or mental stimulation outside of their Kenpo school ... But see? There I go putting my paradigm on you, based on my reaction to your initial, woefully inadequate, guessing game, and chronic bellicose, confrontational manner.

I don't know anything about you other than you hate to be disagreed with. You immediately seem like you have to fight with whomsoever has offended your fine sensibilities; And that, fortunately for you, happens very often to you, and is something I assume you will either have to learn to get along with, or go through life being disagreeable from the backside of your keyboard... And therein lies the issue... It appears to be one of PEBCAK... Problem Exists Between Chair and Keyboard.

You are very much like the man who is standing in a small village in Mexico, yelling at the top of your lungs, "Where is El Bathroomo", and wondering why people don't respond to you. When it might, in fact, be worth your while to learn a bit of the language, and the thought and reasoning behind it... I suspect you would find that if you spoke the language a bit, and approached the natives in a more ammenable manner, they might respond in a little less irritated fashion.

You see... There I go again, putting my hallucination of a human being on you, and assuming that you might like to interact with people in a reasonable fashion.

I would suggest some really great reading to you, but I'm afraid you would only poo-poo it, so I will leave you to your own literary devices.

As Doc would say ...

Don't be haten :cool: To which I would add:

Live and learn.

Now this is a classic post, worthy of many awards, and I should be so lucky to plagiarize it at every oppurtunity LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde
 

Sigung86

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Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Now this is a classic post, worthy of many awards, and I should be so lucky to plagiarize it at every oppurtunity LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

Clyde,

Sorry you read it before I got my editing all done... Thanks very much for the compliment... However, I'm relatively certain that the object of the post will be lost on the intended recipient. :rofl:

:asian:

Have a Great Kenpo Day, my friend.

Dan
 
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Touch Of Death

Touch Of Death

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Originally posted by rmcrobertson
Actually, no. I completely reject these ideas of division into absolute "intellectuals," and absolute, "warriors," which by the way these two societies weren't.

The Athenians weren't democratic, not in our sense, either. And the Spartans apparently weren't exactly what we'd call, "straight." Nor were the Athenians...read the "Symposium."

And both societies lorded it over women, and kept slaves.

It's another of those binary oppositions, and it doesn't reflect the reality of history. Nor does dividing kenpo up this way...

I'm wit' Sigung 86...pick better books. Stephenson's rather derivative--see Jim Dodge, "Cadillac Mountain," Thos. Pynchon, "V.," and "Gravity's Rainbow..."

And, by the way, I also really dislike the term, "warrior," in the martial arts...
No body is defending the ancient greek morrays. I'm not suggesting the book should be made into a TV movie either. I am saying it lays out the basic pitfalls of liberal and conservative thinking in societies. More to the point I want to know if kenpoists are done seeking new information now that Mr. Parker is gone or are they just happy with the material he left for us. By the way Robert, the people of ancient greece did have ideals and there were liberal and conservative thinkers. I'm not deviding the art of kenpo, I'm deviding the practitioners, or rather, that devision is taking place with or with out my help.
 

Old Fat Kenpoka

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Did some posts get deleted here? I don't see what TOD said to cause the personal attack. Why is it that so many people attack a person's intelligence when they hear a point with which they disagree?
 
K

Kirk

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Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Did some posts get deleted here? I don't see what TOD said to cause the personal attack. Why is it that so many people attack a person's intelligence when they hear a point with which they disagree?


Did you not see this one??

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Hey,
Great review of that book you have not read. You really seem to have an insight. Was it the name? Do the Police use you to help find the missing?

Mr Farmer didn't like the book, and posted that opinion. Then
TOD did exactly what you claim to not like so much .. attacked his
intelligence when he heard a point with which he disagreed.
 
R

rmcrobertson

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Dear Sean:

No, they didn't. You are projecting nineteenth and twentieth-century values and political/intellectual binarisms onto the past in an act of what Freud would call, "retrospective reconstruction," (nachtraglichkeit, if I recollect correctly). The past is another country; they do things differently there.

The specific division of Greek "society" (there was no such thing, actually) that you advance is a product of Romantic revisionism, the same intellectual movement that talked about the "purity," of Greek statues from which all the bright paint had fallen off.

And, Pynchon is a way better writer. If that don't float yer boat, try Fritz Leiber, "Our Lady of Shadows." Or William Gibson, "Neuromancer."

I might also note that the impulse behind this interpretation seems to be to divide kenpo into two camps. I prefer the Marxist concept of, "praxis."
 

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