Anyone familiar with Dragons Pride?

[DiveInArts222]

I think it was a Kung Fu or TKD Hapkido school for self defense. Does anyone know about it?

 

[Dirty Dog]

The world is a big place... you might want to provide a little more information if you're hoping for a helpful reply.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

If you're talking about the place on merrick (i'm assuming li from your other post), i'm pretty sure it shut down. No clue why.

 

[DiveInArts222]

Yeah I think that's the place. Is there a reason why it closed down? Is there a similar place in a different location?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

No clue. But it happens a lot, not all martial artists are good businessmen. As far as i know, it didnt reopen, and i couldnt find anything with a quick google search

 

[DiveInArts222]

When that happens does it mean those are bad schools? I heard from someone it was a good place but that's one opinion. I'm not sure if it's true or not cause the place is non existence now cause I thought it was still around.

Is there a difference between a good businessman and good instructor?

If an instructor is real good but doesn't teach anymore mean that they really weren't that good?

 

[Flying Crane]

When that happens does it mean those are bad schools? I heard from someone it was a good place but that's one opinion. I'm not sure if it's true or not cause the place is non existence now cause I thought it was still around.

Is there a difference between a good businessman and good instructor?

If an instructor is real good but doesn't teach anymore mean that they really weren't that good?

There could be a million reasons for it. A good business man or a bad business man could be a poor teacher, or could be a good teacher. Maybe he just decided to retire, or got tired of it and wanted to do something else. Trying to make a living as a martial arts instructor can be very difficult. Lots of schools close after giving it a good run. So it’s hard to say, it does not automatically mean something bad.

 

[Ryan_]

Most start up businesses (which martial art schools usually are) fail.
The businesses which don't fail usually take 3 years or so to break even. (May be different when exclusively referring to martial arts)
There's several reasons a place may shut down but I would note I'm not familiar with this place so this is just a general list:
Not making profit (therefore it is not sustainable and forced to shut down)
Instructor may have had unfortunate circumstances / no one to take over dojo
There may have been struggling to get large classes (which goes to first point..)

Great instructors may not have great marketing which could lead to small classes, financial losses and unable to afford dojo rent or insurance for classes.

How many times do you see that all dojos do to market is have a website, and are listed on a website which lists "dojos near me"?

 

[WaterGal]

When that happens does it mean those are bad schools? I heard from someone it was a good place but that's one opinion. I'm not sure if it's true or not cause the place is non existence now cause I thought it was still around.

Is there a difference between a good businessman and good instructor?

If an instructor is real good but doesn't teach anymore mean that they really weren't that good?

A lot of martial arts schools are started by someone that loves martial arts, is talented at martial arts, is experienced at teaching martial arts.... and doesn't know the first thing about running a business. Being good at teaching martial arts and being good at running a business are two totally different skills. (This also applies to other types of businesses, too.... when I was in college I worked at a restaurant owned by a guy who'd had a mid-life crisis and decided that since he loved to cook pizza he'd start a pizza restaurant.... his pizza was great, but he'd forget to pay us, forget to order ingredients, all kinds of problems all the time. He did terribly and sold the place within 2 years.)

 

[DiveInArts222]

There could be a million reasons for it. A good business man or a bad business man could be a poor teacher, or could be a good teacher. Maybe he just decided to retire, or got tired of it and wanted to do something else. Trying to make a living as a martial arts instructor can be very difficult. Lots of schools close after giving it a good run. So it’s hard to say, it does not automatically mean something bad.

I agree, I guess these things just happen sometimes and the good instructors out there can't do anything about it, which is unfortunate.

Most start up businesses (which martial art schools usually are) fail.
The businesses which don't fail usually take 3 years or so to break even. (May be different when exclusively referring to martial arts)
There's several reasons a place may shut down but I would note I'm not familiar with this place so this is just a general list:
Not making profit (therefore it is not sustainable and forced to shut down)
Instructor may have had unfortunate circumstances / no one to take over dojo
There may have been struggling to get large classes (which goes to first point..)

Great instructors may not have great marketing which could lead to small classes, financial losses and unable to afford dojo rent or insurance for classes.

How many times do you see that all dojos do to market is have a website, and are listed on a website which lists "dojos near me"?

This all makes sense, but what about the places that really don't seem that good, like full of all these promotions, programs, claims of teaching FBI agents, S.W.A.T members, and SEALS with a lot of gimmicks, especially with all the fake demos they perform. If a lot of their claims are fake then how do they stay in business?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This all makes sense, but what about the places that really don't seem that good, like full of all these promotions, programs, claims of teaching FBI agents, S.W.A.T members, and SEALS with a lot of gimmicks, especially with all the fake demos they perform. If a lot of their claims are fake then how do they stay in business?

People don't bother checking those claims out, or even know how to. How would you know whether or not i train new marines?

 

[DiveInArts222]

People don't bother checking those claims out, or even know how to. How would you know whether or not i train new marines?

Wouldn't you see them at the dojo maybe? I mean if they make those claims and it's written on their sites and they have many people that go to them to train, even promoted signatures like hall of fame from teaching kids at high schools, demos to police departments and so forth. That's a lot for student members to join and just assume it's true. There must be some real claims since they continue to go and probably spread the word to others to join. Wouldn't people in FBI agencies and law enforce departments know about ti and if the claims are fake call out on it? It's so confusing to me how someone can write down on paper and post it that they did all this type of training for many years and no one call them out on it. It must mean that they are legit afterall.

 

[Flying Crane]

Someone’s students literally could be anybody. They could have marines, or FBI or SWAT members who are students. But they could be training on their own time, and not as an agency sanctioned activity. So it does not actually mean anything “official”.

I’ve seen people make similar claims about academics. They talk about the doctors and lawyers and university researchers and professors who are their students. Like somehow that proves an intellectual superiority in what they do and how they train.

Nonsense. Just about any school anywhere can have some share of such highly educated people.

 

[Ryan_]

I agree, I guess these things just happen sometimes and the good instructors out there can't do anything about it, which is unfortunate.



This all makes sense, but what about the places that really don't seem that good, like full of all these promotions, programs, claims of teaching FBI agents, S.W.A.T members, and SEALS with a lot of gimmicks, especially with all the fake demos they perform. If a lot of their claims are fake then how do they stay in business?

Personal opinion for my answer here: I would say that's due to a lack of regulations regarding dojo's. And since you're describing a typical mcdojo, many of these places charge for promotion grading, belts, gis more than necessary and have "Black belt in just X months" schemes. It's an unforgettable circumstance where people forget what is too good to be true probably isn't true.
Some of them can potentially be reported for false advertisement, but only the parts of the advertisement that can be proven.

 

[Flying Crane]

Personal opinion for my answer here: I would say that's due to a lack of regulations regarding dojo's. And since you're describing a typical mcdojo, many of these places charge for promotion grading, belts, gis more than necessary and have "Black belt in just X months" schemes. It's an unforgettable circumstance where people forget what is too good to be true probably isn't true.
Some of them can potentially be reported for false advertisement, but only the parts of the advertisement that can be proven.

Well, I think it is pretty difficult to nail down a definition of a McDojo that everyone will agree on.

As far as false advertising goes, I’m not sure there is a place to “report” it for the most part, aside from the Better Business Bureau, which is a voluntary association and does not carry any weight of law.

For some things there are regulations, and violations can be acted upon. For example, if you market a dietary supplement and advertise claims of medical benefits that have not been verified and cleared by the FDA, that can get you into trouble.

But if I make claims that you think are suspicious, you can’t just call the police and get me to change my claims. Someone with a vested interest in the claims would need to get involved, possibly have their attorney write a “cease and desist” letter, and then file a law suit if I don’t change my claims.

For example: if I claim that I was hired by the San Francisco Police department to teach combatives to their officers, and that has not happened, then the SFPD would be the ones to take action. However, if I simply claim to have taught members of the SFPD, and I did in fact have one single officer take one class with me on his own time, then my claim is technically valid, even if somewhat misleading. So there is a lot more gray area there and there may not be much anyone can do to stop me.

 

[Ryan_]

As far as false advertising goes, I’m not sure there is a place to “report” it for the most part, aside from the Better Business Bureau, which is a voluntary association and does not carry any weight of law.

.

Woops, forgot to mention I'm in the UK - In which places can be reported to the advertising standards agency, which does have the ability to make companies remove/adapt advertisements.

Really unsure how it would apply in other countries.

 

[JR 137]

Well, I think it is pretty difficult to nail down a definition of a McDojo that everyone will agree on.

As far as false advertising goes, I’m not sure there is a place to “report” it for the most part, aside from the Better Business Bureau, which is a voluntary association and does not carry any weight of law.

For some things there are regulations, and violations can be acted upon. For example, if you market a dietary supplement and advertise claims of medical benefits that have not been verified and cleared by the FDA, that can get you into trouble.

But if I make claims that you think are suspicious, you can’t just call the police and get me to change my claims. Someone with a vested interest in the claims would need to get involved, possibly have their attorney write a “cease and desist” letter, and then file a law suit if I don’t change my claims.

For example: if I claim that I was hired by the San Francisco Police department to teach combatives to their officers, and that has not happened, then the SFPD would be the ones to take action. However, if I simply claim to have taught members of the SFPD, and I did in fact have one single officer take one class with me on his own time, then my claim is technically valid, even if somewhat misleading. So there is a lot more gray area there and there may not be much anyone can do to stop me.

The FDA doesn’t regulate supplements nor their manufacturers’ claim. Even the commercials have the disclaimer that their results haven’t been evaluated by the FDA.

Dietary Supplements can be beneficial to your health — but taking supplements can also involve health risks. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not have the authority to review dietary supplement products for safety and effectiveness before they are marketed.
Dietary Supplements: What You Need to Know

 

[Flying Crane]

The FDA doesn’t regulate supplements nor their manufacturers’ claim. Even the commercials have the disclaimer that their results haven’t been evaluated by the FDA.

Dietary Supplements can be beneficial to your health — but taking supplements can also involve health risks. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not have the authority to review dietary supplement products for safety and effectiveness before they are marketed.
Dietary Supplements: What You Need to Know

Yeah they always make that disclaimer. I know there is some line that cannot be crossed tho. At some point people can get in trouble if they make medical claims, but where the line is I am not sure.

 

[dvcochran]

When that happens does it mean those are bad schools? I heard from someone it was a good place but that's one opinion. I'm not sure if it's true or not cause the place is non existence now cause I thought it was still around.

Is there a difference between a good businessman and good instructor?

If an instructor is real good but doesn't teach anymore mean that they really weren't that good?

I believe someone can be really good at their MA and be a terrible instructor/teacher. You can also be a great teacher and only average at your MA. You can be a bad businessman in any kind of business.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This all makes sense, but what about the places that really don't seem that good, like full of all these promotions, programs, claims of teaching FBI agents, S.W.A.T members, and SEALS with a lot of gimmicks, especially with all the fake demos they perform. If a lot of their claims are fake then how do they stay in business?

That kind of marketing works with a lot of the general public. That there are folks making those claims, makes the modest assertions of an honest school pretty boring.