Another Get your Kenpo Blackbelt at home.

[superdave]

When is the kind of stuff gonna stop? This guy is claiming that you can obtain your Blackbelt in American Kenpo is 365 days or less, following his program?

More watering down Kenpo for a few bucks.



http://www.adrianroman.com

 

[Michael Billings]

I don't remember the thread, but we have vented about "Chief Adrian Roman" before.

" When you receive your Distant Learning Training Package, it will already contain your prestigious Black Belt Diploma postdated exactly one year from the date of your order. "

and

"When the fee is received as well as your personal, and honorary declaration that you have gone through the material, GrandMaster Roman will send you another certificate, with the corrected date that corresponds with your training timeframe, that you can frame and display, that will show your expertise, in that particular belt level."

It never ceases to amaze me:

The Black Belt certificate along with a FREE CEREMONIAL BLACK BELT will arrive with your Black Belt Program while the others will be sent to you as you send in your testing fee and certifications of completion. The FREE CEREMONIAL BLACK BELT is for displayed below your BLACK BELT certificate. Each certificate is 8.5 x 11 and ready for framing in a standard document frame. Video testing is always OPTIONAL and never required, however, if you elect to test by sending in a video tape of your techniques and forms along with your testing fee, not only will you receive the signed certificate, but you will also receive your colored belt as an added bonus.

ORDER NOW ! ! !

RECEIVE YOUR BLACK BELT DIPLOMA TODAY - EARN YOUR CERTIFICATION GUARANTEED IN 365 DAYS OR LESS THRU ROMAN'S DISTANT LEARNING PROGRAM

Click Here for Info:

AMERICAN KENPO CERTIFICATION NOW ONLY $995 RED WARRIOR $795

I wonder if he is rich yet? Nuff said.

 

[arnisador]

I deleted an extra copy of this thread.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Joe]

I wouldnt be interested in anything like that, but I have purchased Videos opn certain weapon forms or a perticular Kata I was interested what is the end difference both instructors are making money on "home schooling". Any opportunity to train is better than nothing, maybe thats all they have in area.

 

[superdave]

Too bad Ed Parker isn't around to kick this dude in his butt. Looking through the current issue of Black Belt, I noticed Larry Tatum has a home study program also.

I understand that Mr, Tatum is skilled and has earned his rank, but this kind of thing just helps to destroy solid martial arts systems.

 

[satans.barber]

What kind of egits send off for this rubbish!? The only people they're kidding are themselves, surely you'd have to be pretty dim to be taken in by it?

If they want a black belt that bad they should just go buy one for two quid in a martial arts shop, it'd be less of a rip-off than those distance learning courses!

Ian (black belt grading in 8 weeks, 6.5 years training for it)

 

[Joe]

So what your saying is that no one has ever trained w/a video I would find that incredibly hard to beleive.

 

[kenpo_cory]

Originally posted by Joe
So what your saying is that no one has ever trained w/a video I would find that incredibly hard to beleive.

No, what's hard to believe is that people think they can obtain the SKILL of a black belt through instruction given on a video tape.

 

[Joe]

I agree w/that stement i'm just saying for some thats all they have,eventually people w/realize the color of your belt doesnt show your skill.

 

[superdave]

The way I see it is like this. Yes you can learn SOME things from a video. You can learn basic strikes and stances to an extent, some katas. But, I don't believe you could learn the self defense techniques or the advanced forms without the aid of an instructor.

Videos were meant to be used as a teaching aid, not a complete replacement for an instructor.

 

[Joe]

So then we all agree. Nothing is as good as one-on-one w/qualified and ranked Instructor.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by superdave
Too bad Ed Parker isn't around to kick this dude in his butt.

If I legitimately earn a Black Belt in Kenpo and open a studio of my own, maybe even a club. I have already decided that I will have to seriously consider why I should not challenge this guy to a match at the UFC and donate all the proceeds to a legitimate Native American Charity.

The Charity angle is necessary to not give him a good "out."

Frankly, I'm surprised no Kenpo Black Belt has challenged this guy in public.

Right now, I don't have any credentials and I am not in proper shape to go challenging people, but I anticipate getting there and exposing this guy in public will be high on the list.

Who were the guys that challenged VanDamme? Bill Wallace and 10 others? I don't see why Chief Roman has not been challenged in a similar fashion.

But I don't know for sure. Maybe he's legit. Maybe what he says is true. I'll have to check that out thoroughly as well.

I agree this stuff is embarassing and an excellent example of "all that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing."

I guess I need to become a good man. Then once I verify this as "evil" I'll execute whatever recourse I can that is in accordance with Scripture. I am sure the Bible must say something about what to do in these circumstances.

This is one of the more outrageous claims on the web. How many times does he use Honor on his website?

I'll shut up, but the lack of the ability to use proper grammar is also a pet peeve of mine. If you are going to claim, in English, that you are a Grandmaster... of something, then at least say it properly.

"If you thought Kenpo was tough and sophisticated, get ready because we are raising the bar considerable. You will find it challenging and innovated."

Was he drunk when he put this up on the Internet for everyone on Earth to read? He can't even use the Alphabets of the English Language, why should we believe he is a Grandmaster of the Alphabets of Motion as prescribed by Mr. Parker?

I hate this stuff. I have been quiet for a while, but I had to chime in this time whether is it Scripturally sound of me to do so or not.

 

[MJS]

A video is NOT going to teach the fine points that you will get from a good Inst. If you already have a solid background, then yeah, the video might be able to give you a few things, but nothing can take the place of an actual Inst. You see this with every art out there, not only Kenpo. Its really amazing as to what lengths people will go to just to make some extra$$$$. Its really sad to think that people actually spend money on stuff like this and then think that they are actually at Black Belt level.

Mike

 

[clapping_tiger]

Although I belong to a school and I have an excellent instructor. I do know there are a few individuals who train via video through the IKCA. I do admit that I don't think everyone has what it takes to make a good Black Belt working via video, some people do need an instructor right there to show them and guide them through their art (yes, I am one of those people). But I think in order to make a good video program work is that the instructors need to be accessible at all times to the students via telephone, video, seminars, email, and advice on where they could go close by to get one on one instruction. I do know that Mr. Vic LeRoux and Mr. Chuck Sullivan do make themselves available at any time to their members. I think it is pretty harsh to say that nobody can make a good Kenpoist training via video. I have seen some damn fine Black Belts that have come this way, and some Black Belts (even up to 4th Degree) that sucked so bad it made me sick. I do agree that any program that claims you will be a black belt in 365 days is bogus, and you receive your black belt certification right away, and testing is optional?? That is a scam. But not ALL video testing programs work in such a manner. All I am saying is it is not the program or necessarily the Kenpo system, it is how you train. And whether or not you take advantage of all the knowledge and resources that is offered to you.

 

[clapping_tiger]

Originally posted by Joe
So then we all agree. Nothing is as good as one-on-one w/qualified and ranked Instructor.

Yes. But the instructor can be miles away. I am sure there are people on this board who just plain suck (this is not meant twards anyone in particular) and they may work with an qualified instructor everyday. And you know these people don't know or can't see just how bad they are. You get out of it what you put into it and although having a good instructor is important, how you train and how you study on your own is just as important.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Joe
So then we all agree. Nothing is as good as one-on-one w/qualified and ranked Instructor.

And people to practice "on" and "with" whether it is that instructor or not.

My comments were in support of Mr. Billings' post. As someone with a College Degree in Radio-TV-Film I can tell you for certain that I can transmit some knowledge to you more effectively via videotape than is often done in person. Various camera angles, illustrations, etc, like a moving book.

But as Mr. LaBounty likes to say, Kenpo is a "Martial Art" and he also says something about there being no substitute for working the system on the mat, with a partner.

That is my point. That and that the Chief will sell you his "honor system" that comes with a certificate which certifies nothing if that quote is still on his site.

His site is amazing. Look through it.

I will however say this. For me, or for say someone with a black belt in another system, you can go through and read his site from this perspective and interpret it that he is just going to show you what Kenpo is. Now this may be what he is claiming.

He will go ahead and demonstrate the system for you so you don't have to go to class for 5 years to see what it looks like. This does have advantages as he has pointed out. If you have physical skill and experience then maybe you can also work this material on your own and learn some or all of it. Sort of like test-driving a car. You get to see it and test it and then if you want to go to class for 5 years to learn it on a mat, at least you know what you are making the payments on.

I don't know if this is what the Chief is saying or not. I also don't know anyone who has ever met him. Who has ever seen him teach a class, seminar or perform a Demo. So I have no idea how good he is anyway. But if he is good, then he could be saving you some time by letting you see the entire system.

However, I think for the half the price you could buy Mr. Tatum's tapes and see the entire system and get it from someone who you know knows what he is doing. But you won't get a Black Belt on the honor system this way.

If the Chief did not give out the Black Belt certificate... and if he marketed this as a preview or a test drive then it would be less controversial I think.

But he really does seem to be selling Snake Oil by saying that his video course can in 1 year grant you the equivalent skill of one of his students who had spent 4 years with him on the mat. This may be true for him now that I phrase it this way, but I doubt it is true for most.

That is what I don't like. He claims this and then sells it as "honor." I'm not saying that nothing can be learned from a video. At minimum, you can rewind a video and keep it to watch again for years. You can not do this with a live event.

 

[Michael Billings]

Tommy Burks knows this guy. I am not saying good or bad things about him, since I do not know him personally. But I do know what my teacher thinks of him.

He is a Kenpoist. He has video of Grip of Death up there right now. I am criticizing how he is marketing Kenpo. No tests, no video test, no requirements, Black Belt sent with your 1st shipment. This is NOT the same thing Chuck Sullivan is doing. At least there is some quality control with Mr. Sullivan ... and you know it is Mr. Parker's Kenpo ... and the system in it's entirety.

I am not critical of video tapes per se; they can teach a student who already has the fundamentals. They can certainly be a good reference for any of us whose braincells die by the boatloads everytime we sleep, drink, ... well you get the idea ... some of us live in Senior Moments.

Nothing replaces the feedback of an instructor when it comes to "How to Move". You can always learn to wave your hands in the air, some can even hit hard, but I bet they could do that before the video tapes; but it would be challenging, to say the least, to learn application of the Principles of Motion without someone correcting, teaching, and reinforcing the type of movement Mr. Parker had. Relaxed, sinking, whipping, with even an inch of body momentum thrown in - so you "feel" the power. (Gee that just reminded me of him hitting me, I wish I had more time with him personally ... as do we all.)

Sorry I meandered off topic, but not really. I am comparing what Mr. Parker gave, whether in a class, seminar, on the phone, in a coffee shop, lobby of a hotel, or standing outside ... he was always teaching, to what Chief Roman is offerring. Seems somewhat thin to me. But I am in Texas, and it is not about "challenging" others as Doug infers. You can email him and question him ... I have, and got a very courteous response. He is making a living!

Chuck Sullivan, Vick LeReaux, Larry Tatum, Sabaki, and Mr. Parker's 1st two tapes, the forthcoming Kenpo Chronicles ... there is nothing inherently bad with video or DVD as an adjunct to training. Mr. Parker knew this ... and it was going to be part of his business offerring. Once again, it is the "Buying a Belt" without anything else that bothers me. I just wanted to be more specific about the issue that bothers me. In a perfect world the "honor system" he touts would be a wonderful thing.

In this case the Black Belt Pledge has something to do with why I posted on this at all:

Black Belt Pledge:

I hold that my time and my skill are the assets of my profession, assets which will grow in value as I progress in the Art until I stand as a fully qualified instructor. It shall also be my responsibility to protect any student from ravenous individuals who would try to take advantage of personal weaknesses, to divest the gullible into unprofitable gains, to preserve the sacred things, personal beliefs, family, and the art of Kenpo, I pledge my all.

OSS

 

[cdhall]

You go Mr. Billings.
I may have come off a bit harsh, but it was in favor of the Black Belt pledge (which as I mentioned, does not apply to me yet...) so I'm not issuing a challenge, but it sure seems to me that "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."
http://www.bartleby.com/100/138.32.57.html

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
[
I am not critical of video tapes per se; they can teach a student who already has the fundamentals. They can certainly be a good reference for any of us whose braincells die by the boatloads everytime we sleep, drink, ... well you get the idea ... some of us live in Senior Moments.

Nothing replaces the feedback of an instructor when it comes to "How to Move". You can always learn to wave your hands in the air, some can even hit hard, but I bet they could do that before the video tapes; but it would be challenging, to say the least, to learn application of the Principles of Motion without someone correcting, teaching, and reinforcing the type of movement Mr. Parker had. Relaxed, sinking, whipping, with even an inch of body momentum thrown in - so you "feel" the power. (Gee that just reminded me of him hitting me, I wish I had more time with him personally ... as do we all.)

OSS [/B]

Excellent points!!!

If you already have a base in the art, then yes, a tape might help refine some of the movements, but if you have never rolled on the ground, and you go out and buy a BJJ tape, yes, you might be able to pick up a few moves, but I'd say that the majority of people in that situation would be looking at the tape and thinking, "How the hell am I going to do this stuff????"

To offer someone ranking through the mail, IMO is not right. It opens the door to a bunch of fake people who open up a school, misleading potential students into thinking that they are some great master or something, when in reality, they are not!

Definately do your homework when looking into a school. I'd rather give my money to someone who earned the rank that they wear around their waist, through hard work, rather than by sitting in front on the TV copying moves from someone.

Mike:soapbox:

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by MJS
To offer someone ranking through the mail, IMO is not right. It opens the door to a bunch of fake people who open up a school, misleading potential students into thinking that they are some great master or something, when in reality, they are not!

You know, there are people that do this in person! Video is just another avenue!

How do you tell though? I don't know how to tell a brand new student how to pick a good school. They can not know how to tell. The instructor will be able to impress them and there are many places to get rank certificates and lineage from... it would take a long time to find a way to determine if your potential first instructor was worth signing up with or not.