animal styles effective?

[JadeDragon3]

This topic might have been already discussed on this forum and if it has I'm sorry posting this question again. I recently got in a big debate on another chat forum about this topic. My question that I would like to pose to everyone is this.....Are the different animal styles of kung fu such as tiger, snake, crane, etc.... effective in real fight situations? This includes the different hand strikes that that particular style uses such as crane beak or tiger claw or spear hand strikes. Can these strikes be used for real against a real opponent that is fighting back? I contend that if the student has been training right then of course these styles and techniques will work. I feel that a person can incorporate any of these strikes in with your "normal" hand strikes such as jab, uppercut, cross jab, etc... The key is to know when to use the strike and to what part of the opponents body ity is best suited for. What is everyone else's oppinion. I've been told by many on another forum that TMA's are no good for self defense on the street.

 

[Xue Sheng]

If trained properly they are effective and have been for a very long time.

But your question:

Animal styles, there are a lot of them.
Strikes with animal names there are lots of them.
Styles with forms in them, there are lots of them.

And if trained properly "and understood" they all work.

And yes this has been discussed on MT a few times before

 

[CuongNhuka]

I've been told by many on another forum that TMA's are no good for self defense on the street.

That's just because they don't understand the matterial presented. I've seen a video (on Youtube) that shows whats called Frog Kung Fu. The form they showed would never work in a real fight, the attacks are simply to unrealistic. However, I imagine that the form is more about conditioning, since the guy went from basicly prone to 5 feet in the air, kicking with both legs. Many things in martial arts are like this, not combat effective in of itself, but is about developing somehting else.

 

[JadeDragon3]

I have heard of a style patterned after a frog. Sounds strange to me. I am unable to get youtube at my work. What are the charactoristics of frog style and if it has no practical self defense application then why would you teach or learn it? I'm sure there are other exercises that would benifit you just as good and that have some type of street applicability.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have heard of a style patterned after a frog. Sounds strange to me. I am unable to get youtube at my work. What are the charactoristics of frog style and if it has no practical self defense application then why would you teach or learn it? I'm sure there are other exercises that would benifit you just as good and that have some type of street applicability.

I never heard of Frog style where did you get this from?

However me not hearing about frog style does not mean it does not exist but I have to say I am doubtful.

 

[tellner]

I have heard of a style patterned after a frog. Sounds strange to me. I am unable to get youtube at my work. What are the charactoristics of frog style and if it has no practical self defense application then why would you teach or learn it? I'm sure there are other exercises that would benifit you just as good and that have some type of street applicability.

Let's see...

A frog waits with complete patience in utter relaxed concentration. When the time and distance are right she strikes with blinding speed and kills quickly. She hides from creatures too big to kill and has powerful legs. Some of her kind are deadly poison and destroy anyone who tries to harm them.

Those are all useful metaphors that can be developed as training aids.

As far as it goes, both Chinese Dog Boxing and Harimau (Tiger) style Silat are animal-influenced groundfighting styles. Both have well deserved reputations as good practical systems with many useful lessons for actual self defense.

 

[tellner]

I never heard of Frong style where did you get this from?

However me not hearing about frog style does not mean it does not exist but I have to say I am doubtful.

Haven't you seen Kung Fu Hustle or The Five Deadly Venoms ?

I have a video lying around of someone showing Toad Style Chinese forms. Haven't seen it yet, and I don't have much hope that it will be anything except performance Wu Shu by this time. If there actually is such a style which has retained some combative efficiency I'd love to see it. Sometimes a Toad's gotta do what a Toad's gotta do...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Haven't you seen Kung Fu Hustle or The Five Deadly Venoms ?

nope

I have a video lying around of someone showing Toad Style Chinese forms. Haven't seen it yet, and I don't have much hope that it will be anything except performance Wu Shu by this time. If there actually is such a style which has retained some combative efficiency I'd love to see it. Sometimes a Toad's gotta do what a Toad's gotta do...

Is this from an alleged traditional root, something new and made up or a movie?

 

[clfsean]

Frog fu is a PRC Shaolin Wushu thing. No viable applications I've seen in it (both here in the States & in China at Shaolin), but the guys who play it have got mad ups from a nearly prone position on the floor. I'd look at it more as a gei boon gung or gung lik tool than a fighting thing.

Animal strikes are fine if you know how, when & where to apply them with maximum benefit. Regardless of the arguments & "Oh my sifu says..." stories out there or personal lines of BS for impressing friends & family, 99.99999% of us aren't using CMA to defend ourselves with on a daily basis. Therefore I'd proffer to the mob that most CMA animal positions are for keeping the CMAs alive & keep with the fist closed, clenched & tight at impact or the palm tight & locked with the fingers pulled back out of the way and call it a day. Condition your hands, arms & legs for the in case of event & pray it's never used that way, but keep it simple, real & safe for your use. Close the fist or tighten the palm.

I dig my animals I learn in CLF & can use a selected one or two but the others... I'll just club you with a fist instead of trying to strike a pose from the Shaw Bros if it's all the same.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Frog fu is a PRC Shaolin Wushu thing. No viable applications I've seen in it (both here in the States & in China at Shaolin), but the guys who play it have got mad ups from a nearly prone position on the floor. I'd look at it more as a gei boon gung or gung lik tool than a fighting thing.

Animal strikes are fine if you know how, when & where to apply them with maximum benefit. Regardless of the arguments & "Oh my sifu says..." stories out there or personal lines of BS for impressing friends & family, 99.99999% of us aren't using CMA to defend ourselves with on a daily basis. Therefore I'd proffer to the mob that most CMA animal positions are for keeping the CMAs alive & keep with the fist closed, clenched & tight at impact or the palm tight & locked with the fingers pulled back out of the way and call it a day. Condition your hands, arms & legs for the in case of event & pray it's never used that way, but keep it simple, real & safe for your use. Close the fist or tighten the palm.

I dig my animals I learn in CLF & can use a selected one or two but the others... I'll just club you with a fist instead of trying to strike a pose from the Shaw Bros if it's all the same.

That would be why I have never heard of it, I do not know any of the new and unimproved Wushu forms

With that said, I will tell you what my taiji sifu says about the cranes beak.

Used rarely as a strike and makes a better hook block to control and open up your opponent so you can hit him.

And I have to say the Hebei XIngyiquan Tiger form is very cool and very effective for what it was made for, not arguing or adding anything I just really like the Xinyi Tiger form. :EG:

 

[tellner]

nope

If Chuck Jones had done a Kung Fu movie it would have been Kung Fu Hustle. It was sidesplittingly funny.

The Five Deadly Venoms was a black-and-white 70s film about five martial artists who variously practiced Scorpion, Lizard, Centipede, Snake and (my favorite) Toad style with usual complement of overacting, bad dialog and supernatural wire work.

Is this from an alleged traditional root, something new and made up or a movie?

I don't know if there was a historical combative Frog style.

 

[Xue Sheng]

If Chuck Jones had done a Kung Fu movie it would have been Kung Fu Hustle. It was sidesplittingly funny.

The Five Deadly Venoms was a black-and-white 70s film about five martial artists who variously practiced Scorpion, Lizard, Centipede, Snake and (my favorite) Toad style with usual complement of overacting, bad dialog and supernatural wire work.

I shall have to check it out

I don't know if there was a historical combative Frog style.

It appears that it wasn't

 

[jks9199]

If Chuck Jones had done a Kung Fu movie it would have been Kung Fu Hustle. It was sidesplittingly funny.

The Five Deadly Venoms was a black-and-white 70s film about five martial artists who variously practiced Scorpion, Lizard, Centipede, Snake and (my favorite) Toad style with usual complement of overacting, bad dialog and supernatural wire work.


I don't know if there was a historical combative Frog style.

I've seen Five Deadly Venoms in color... Each fighter wore a mask during their training, representing their style, so they never saw each other's face, right?

 

[kaizasosei]

have you seen the scorpion style. i don't know if it is purely a movie creation. but back in the ninetees, there was an excellent kungfu movie showing showing this scorpion style with the actor whose name i don't know off hand, has this long hair that covers one side of his face.
anyhow, if one looks hard, clips can be found on youtube. also, i saw that there is a new movie coming out that is suposed to be a kind of sequel or remake of the original. as a youngster, i used to enjoy watching the film.

about animal styles in general, i think that they are quite good. whilst i think it is not good to limit oneself too much by focusing only on one style, i find that animal forms and simple mimicing of animals, seem to me to bring out all kinds of powerful movements and clever strategies,

 

[gblnking]

Frog fu is a PRC Shaolin Wushu thing. No viable applications I've seen in it (both here in the States & in China at Shaolin), but the guys who play it have got mad ups from a nearly prone position on the floor. I'd look at it more as a gei boon gung or gung lik tool than a fighting thing.

Animal strikes are fine if you know how, when & where to apply them with maximum benefit. Regardless of the arguments & "Oh my sifu says..." stories out there or personal lines of BS for impressing friends & family, 99.99999% of us aren't using CMA to defend ourselves with on a daily basis. Therefore I'd proffer to the mob that most CMA animal positions are for keeping the CMAs alive & keep with the fist closed, clenched & tight at impact or the palm tight & locked with the fingers pulled back out of the way and call it a day. Condition your hands, arms & legs for the in case of event & pray it's never used that way, but keep it simple, real & safe for your use. Close the fist or tighten the palm.

I dig my animals I learn in CLF & can use a selected one or two but the others... I'll just club you with a fist instead of trying to strike a pose from the Shaw Bros if it's all the same.

Amen

 

[clfsean]

have you seen the scorpion style. i don't know if it is purely a movie creation. but back in the ninetees, there was an excellent kungfu movie showing showing this scorpion style with the actor whose name i don't know off hand, has this long hair that covers one side of his face.

Same same as PRC Shaolin wushu or movie fu.

 

[CuongNhuka]

I have heard of a style patterned after a frog. Sounds strange to me. I am unable to get youtube at my work. What are the charactoristics of frog style and if it has no practical self defense application then why would you teach or learn it? I'm sure there are other exercises that would benifit you just as good and that have some type of street applicability.

The techniques inpolyed at less then useful, but they are about conditioning. I beleive (from the description of the video) that it's done as a part of Shaolin, so that is propably why it exists.

 

[CuongNhuka]

have you seen the scorpion style. i don't know if it is purely a movie creation.

I saw a clip of Scorpion Style on youtube, I don't think it's from a movie

 

[HG1]

***EDIT*** Are the different animal styles of kung fu such as tiger, snake, crane, etc.... effective in real fight situations? This includes the different hand strikes that that particular style uses such as crane beak or tiger claw or spear hand strikes. Can these strikes be used for real against a real opponent that is fighting back?

Yes they work effectively, even on real opponents who are fighting back. :wink2:

 

[kaizasosei]

i think this is the new movie. http://youtube.com/watch?v=T63MDKnZwCA&feature=related

it may be the original but to me it looks like a new one. the original seemed less corny and better. -
anyways the guy acting the scorpion style is the one with the kungfu skater doo.

j