air plane terrorist attack survival

[bios69]

Soon I ' ve to fly (again).
I already did pretty many times but I don't like.
Initially it was only the fear of an plane crash, now it was added the fear of some knife attack (o similar ) from a terrorist.
I do know that the chances it could ever happen to me are VERY LOW, but better to be prepared.....
On the other hand it has been proved that airport controls are eludable.
Let's imagine 1 or 2 men with a cutter in their hands, upsetting and frghting the plane. Imagine the havoc...
Let's imagine nobody knows or wants to intervene;
let' s say the terrorists are in the corridor of the plane (one in the beginning and the other in the center).
Let's say you must try to do something to win your life.
Question:
What (fast killing teqniques) would you use against the terrorist, and why?
I know my scenario requires an imagination effort, so I thank you in advance for this.
I will be the first to give a solution, just reporting what Itay Gil (Tactical krav maga) wrote in his book:
ask for a coke can and with your hannd make it to have the form in which is there a cutting edge (similar to a knife or razor) and use it that way.
Anyway the excellent suggestion considered the case of an improvised weapon.
But empty hands???
Thanks and I will keep in mind your suggestions.
Sergio (wing tsun/mma praticiner)

 

[MA-Caver]

We're supposed to have air marshals on board each flight and they're supposed to be armed. They're supposed to neutralize any on board threat during flight, so your intervention might not be needed. So, relax and enjoy your flight.

 

[Blindside]

Did you know you can take up to a 7" screwdriver on the plane? Seems a bit easier than trying to improvise a knife out of a soda can.

 

[Blindside]

We're supposed to have air marshals on board each flight and they're supposed to be armed. They're supposed to neutralize any on board threat during flight, so your intervention might not be needed. So, relax and enjoy your flight.

There is no way air marshals are on every flight. There are something like 30,000 commercial flights in the US each day. I suspect that 25% coverage is wishful thinking.

Lamont

 

[7starmarc]

Since the lessons of 9/11, Air Marshalls are not the only thing that has changed on board. It's also the training of the cabin crew. Before 9/11, most hijackers wanted to go somewhere or take hostages to make a point. This was met be an attitude that it's better to surrender control of the plane and get everyone out as safely as possible than to risk unneeded violence or accident on board. Now, the game has changed. Since the idea of turning passenger planes into weapons is a proven concept, flight crews are no longer operating under the same assumptions. Flight cabins are locked and secured. Cabin crew are trained not to surrender control. Federal Flight Deck Officers are flight deck crew trained and licensed to carry firearms as part of the flight crew.

The "nice" thing is, terrorists know this as well. They know it's going to take more than a box cutter to take control. This is why we've seen more extravagant plans with explosives and the like.

To answer your question from my completely non-expert point of view. Screwdrivers and steel ball point pens are still allowed on board, last I checked. They are probably as good an improvised weapon as anything you can make with a coke can. Wearing/carrying a heavy coat, perhaps even of specialized material could make you more ready to deal with an armed assailant. Also, don't underestimate the power of numbers. More passengers are thinking like you than before. Providing a distraction for someone in a better position to attack by surprise may be your best tactic. The willingness to act may also encourage others on board to assist as well, so be prepared, not everyone involved in the fray will be an opponent (as we tragically learned in the recent news article from New York. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58871)

 

[MA-Caver]

There is no way air marshals are on every flight. There are something like 30,000 commercial flights in the US each day. I suspect that 25% coverage is wishful thinking.

Lamont

Well, I said there's SUPPOSED to be... I had no illusions that there were.

But with what 7starmarc said I'd have to agree. The mind-set is definitely changed. The terrorist know this and thus it may be that the 9/11 tactic is just a one shot deal. But yes, be prepared, but relax, the folks at homeland are doing their jobs.

 

[bios69]

Since the lessons of 9/11, Air Marshalls are not the only thing that has changed on board. It's also the training of the cabin crew. Before 9/11, most hijackers wanted to go somewhere or take hostages to make a point. This was met be an attitude that it's better to surrender control of the plane and get everyone out as safely as possible than to risk unneeded violence or accident on board. Now, the game has changed. Since the idea of turning passenger planes into weapons is a proven concept, flight crews are no longer operating under the same assumptions. Flight cabins are locked and secured. Cabin crew are trained not to surrender control. Federal Flight Deck Officers are flight deck crew trained and licensed to carry firearms as part of the flight crew.

The "nice" thing is, terrorists know this as well. They know it's going to take more than a box cutter to take control. This is why we've seen more extravagant plans with explosives and the like.

To answer your question from my completely non-expert point of view. Screwdrivers and steel ball point pens are still allowed on board, last I checked. They are probably as good an improvised weapon as anything you can make with a coke can. Wearing/carrying a heavy coat, perhaps even of specialized material could make you more ready to deal with an armed assailant. Also, don't underestimate the power of numbers. More passengers are thinking like you than before. Providing a distraction for someone in a better position to attack by surprise may be your best tactic. The willingness to act may also encourage others on board to assist as well, so be prepared, not everyone involved in the fray will be an opponent (as we tragically learned in the recent news article from New York. http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58871)

Thanks for the good interventions (to all).
I live in Italy but I read in Wagner book about the marshall (he was one of them for a while I read), but the goverment after the first year diminished tremendously their number.
I do not think anybody can count on their presences, now.
Second point: the crew training: I realy don't think they can help much more then a normal passenger (that indeed is not a little but very important), but, I wonder, how many self protection lessons they could reasonable have been instructed? 15? 20, maybe?? No way .... not enough..surely.
Flight cabins are locked and secured: yes, but I read that often they are left open for long time, nobody cares so much till too late.
Very helpful to bring a steel pen (yes I always carry one) as improvised weapon but, sorry if I push, let's consider that you maybe distract -with the help of some passengers- one of them, what teqnique you do??
Chope to side of the neck (axe)?
Go for a throat strike?
Eyes?
Chokes??

 

[bios69]

the there is another problem with marshalls: I'm fling in Europe, from Italy to Bruxelles, I do not think we have marshall here.....italian marshalls...if they are like our politicians, I don't trust them.....

 

[Andrew Green]

I'd suggest looking at how many flights have had terrorist problems in the past 10 years, and how many have been flown.

I suspect the odd of being on a terrorist hijacked plane are less then the odds of winning the lottery. Relax, enjoy the movie and complain about the food.

Constantly worrying about threats that are so small will just make you stressed, which is more of a danger to your health than terrorists are.

Remember Terrorists work of using terror, they win when people are afraid. Don't be afraid and the "war against terror" is won.

 

[bios69]

I'd suggest looking at how many flights have had terrorist problems in the past 10 years, and how many have been flown.

I suspect the odd of being on a terrorist hijacked plane are less then the odds of winning the lottery. Relax, enjoy the movie and complain about the food.

Constantly worrying about threats that are so small will just make you stressed, which is more of a danger to your health than terrorists are.

Remember Terrorists work of using terror, they win when people are afraid. Don't be afraid and the "war against terror" is won.

Sure, it is as yiu stated.
It will be what it will be.
Stay well and thanks anyway.
Sergio

 

[charyuop]

Usa Alitalia, quale terrorista e' cosi' scemo da volare Alitalia???


Sorry for the non English language, but he said he lives in Italy and since there are not so many of us Italian on this forum I couldn't help speaking Italian hee hee.

Anyway, there is one thing to keep in mind. How many kids and women are there on a plane? Do not think that everyone has the guts to do something, on the contrary most of the people would freeze in such a situation. Who would protect the little kid sitting 20-30 rows away from you while you play the hero to take out the terrorist near you? The best thing to do would take them both out together when they are one near the other...but at that point, are you sure you want to start fighting 2-3 terrorists (who might very well have some military training) armed with knives at the same time...and think that those terrorist might get on the plane already prepared to die, so it would be a hell of a fight.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I fly to China... I use China airlines.... they trained all their stewardesses in Sanshou.....

 

[chinto]

well when I fly I have a pair of pens in my pocket, and a heavy wad of keys, and I carry a black thorn cane. ( i have an ankle that has problems once in a while, so have a good cane..no hook on it but strait solid black thorn.) I figure if it happens and I am on the airplane, A: I have nothing to loose, as if they win I am most likely on a kamikaze mission, so go for broke! B: the object is to kill the hijacker, this is a deadly force situation and no half measures allowed! Kill them and make sure they are dead! C: take the first one closest and work from there, as most likely you are not the only one who will take action! after 9/11 I think most passengers and crew are not willing to ride a kamikaze down into some terrorists target. use the pens, walking stick, your belt, your tie or belt and throw a can of coke or what ever hard at the bastard and fallow it in.. do what you have to do, but know its kill or die. you choose, but if you go, its for keeps and no hesitation just do it! remember you can give no quarter, and they sure as hell will not be giving you or your fellow passengers any either way.

 

[masherdong]

I fly to China... I use China airlines.... they trained all their stewardesses in Sanshou.....

Really?!?! Wow, and most of them are cute! Go figure, cute and deadly!

 

[still learning]

Hello, Another thing to fear or NOT....is LOST LUGGAGE! Will be more of a problem today.

United Airlines starting in May will be charging an extra $25.00 for the second bag and $100 there after....WILL other Airlines follow? ...mostly likely because United expects about many millions of dollars from this move!

Weapons you can make: Any CREDIT CARD..can be sharpen on one side to cut like a razor blade..this is OLD school spy make shift knife!

....best to use a low limit card? ...that way the cut is cheaper?

Aloha....or use any costco card that is use up?

PS: Debit or Credit? UM?

 

[Shotochem]

Hi All,
I have the mentality that if a situation arises where a person is armed with anything less than a gun, I'll take my chances.

If a terrorist succeeds the plane is going for a nosedive.

The odds of survival from a knife or razorblade wound are quite a bit more in your favor than the impact of an aircraft hitting the earth.

Protect your vital areas your eyes, throat and torso are most important.
Use anything at your disposal.

A hot cup of coffee in the eyes and face will slow an attacker.
A serving tray would make an excellent shield against a stabbing attack and can be used to whack someone over the head. Your keys, pens, pencils or even your belt can be used.

Use your imagination, watch a few good movies, the possibilities are endless. I'd be more concerned with finding your luggage, the quality of the meal being served, or arriving on time than terrorism.

-Marc-

 

[chinto]

Hi All,
I have the mentality that if a situation arises where a person is armed with anything less than a gun, I'll take my chances.

If a terrorist succeeds the plane is going for a nosedive.

The odds of survival from a knife or razorblade wound are quite a bit more in your favor than the impact of an aircraft hitting the earth.

Protect your vital areas your eyes, throat and torso are most important.
Use anything at your disposal.

A hot cup of coffee in the eyes and face will slow an attacker.
A serving tray would make an excellent shield against a stabbing attack and can be used to whack someone over the head. Your keys, pens, pencils or even your belt can be used.

Use your imagination, watch a few good movies, the possibilities are endless. I'd be more concerned with finding your luggage, the quality of the meal being served, or arriving on time than terrorism.

-Marc-

hell at that point I would provably take my chances against a gun if i can get close, especially say with coffee nice and hot! or tea the same way... either way I got nothing to loose... I would have to assume I am riding a kamikaze... and well I just don't have the head band for that ride!! ( joke) but seriously gun or not go!! you have nothing to loose at that point! you have to assume its 9-11 again and its a Kamikaze ride so you are dead any way! YOU WIN YOU LIVE! You loose or you do not try? Your dead any way.

 

[fireman00]

I'm sure the attack would be timed so that passengers are at their most vulnerable - belted in, no hot (or canned) beverates served yet, carry on bags in the overhead/ under the seat and the flight crew would be paying attention to take-off/ post take-off duties. If the attackers followed the usual plans the attackers will be assigned a zone with each attacker watching X number of passengers for sudden/ unexpected movements.

Keys, pens, rolled up magazines or newspapers would be the most accessible weapons. Laptop computer, a couple of magazines stacked up, a jacket or even pulling your shirt off and wrapping around your arm would make a half decent shield against sharp objects.

The aisles are not very wide and seat backs are high enough to make any kick other then something like a front snap/ front push kick ineffective. Also, trying to throw a hand technique other then a jab, cross, upper cut would be tough as the overhead compartments can interfere with the blow.

 

[Balrog]

You probably have a set of keys in your pocket and/or a ballpoint pen. You can kill someone with them.

Practice your knife defenses with keys/pen in one hand. Modify the counterstrikes to go for deadly/disabling strikes. Ramming the key or pen into the bad guys eyeball, ear or throat will most assuredly distract him long enough to follow up with other techniques that will take him out.

 

[Sanchin-J]

I'd have to go with Chinto on this one, use what you have at your disposal, and improvise if you must, there are weapons all over the place, even on planes, but most people dismiss them as common use or non-threat items, when in fact it could be used to kill or disable an attacker. Hell if you manage to get the first one down, you could probably take his weapon and skip the kamikaze pen attacks and just shoot the others, that's probably what I would do, granted gotta be careful, wouldn't want to shoot out a window several thousand feet in the air or anything.

I think the biggest and hardest part about that situation would be growing a big enough pair to act in general hehe.