aikido cross trainers

[brothershaw]

how many of you are doing aikido and some other art? Aikido for the throws/ locks/ internalization/ footwork and something else for striking?

 

[Yari]

how many of you are doing aikido and some other art? Aikido for the throws/ locks/ internalization/ footwork and something else for striking?

I used to do Jujitsu and arnius besides Aikido. But I didn't do it to cross train, but because I loved to do the different things.

/Yari

 

[Bushido151]

If you choose the right style of Aikido you don't have to cross train!!! Check out Aikidobuff.com

 

[MJS]

If you choose the right style of Aikido you don't have to cross train!!! Check out Aikidobuff.com

Yes and no. I dont train in Aikido. I train in Kenpo as my base art, as well as as few others. I've had this same discussion with my other Kenpoists. Are there grappling concepts in Kenpo? Yes. However, if you really want to understand the ground, you need to train in a grappling art. There is nothing wrong with crosstraining. As I've said on the Kenpo threads....if you at the very least, take an idea or concept from another art, add it to your own, just think of how much better you'll become!

Just a few thoughts.

Mike

 

[MisterMike]

I agree. Definitely go and see what else is out there. Take in as much as you can.

a) you will never see it all
b) it will only benefit you
c) eventually you will see how all styles are tied together
d) if any teacher claims they have it all and there is nothing else to see...


LEAVE

 

[brothershaw]

I dont practice aikido but from time to time i think about training in an art that specializes in throws and or joint locks, although i am learning some through my normal practice. Aikido and/or judo are appealing because they there isnt much empahasis on striking, so I wouldnt spend time learning multiple ways to hit. From my experience every style uses the body differentntly when it comes to hitting, not to mention the hand positions.
People also use the body to throw differently but thats less of a concern, since I dont do much throwing, or joint locks

 

[Yari]

I agree. Definitely go and see what else is out there. Take in as much as you can.

a) you will never see it all
b) it will only benefit you
c) eventually you will see how all styles are tied together
d) if any teacher claims they have it all and there is nothing else to see...


LEAVE

Hi Mike

In one sense I agree, but looking at the four criteria I can't but feel that b) is a bit broad. But it could be me misunderstanding, since you did write "go and see" but no mention of practice. Because I don't believe that praticing anything will only benefit you. THere are styles that will hurt your body, and cripple you when you get old. But I could be reading to much in what your writing.

But a broader understanding does really put many things in perspectiv (sp?).

Regards

Yari

 

[MJS]

Hi Mike

In one sense I agree, but looking at the four criteria I can't but feel that b) is a bit broad. But it could be me misunderstanding, since you did write "go and see" but no mention of practice. Because I don't believe that praticing anything will only benefit you. THere are styles that will hurt your body, and cripple you when you get old. But I could be reading to much in what your writing.

But a broader understanding does really put many things in perspectiv (sp?).

Regards

Yari

Maybe I can shed some light on this. I think, and Mike, please correct me if I'm wrong, but what hes saying is this. It will only benefit you in a positive way. I dont think that anyone said to go out and start training in Muay Thai, which is a very demanding art. However, by taking the concepts or ideas as to how they throw their kicks, and adding them to the way you throw yours, will in the long run, only make your kicking that much better. The same can be said for boxing. If I can take a tip from a boxer, and make my jab or hook that much more devastating, look how much more my skill level went up. Keep in mind, that there are many old masters, especially in the FMA, that are old, but still move very well.

Mike

 

[MisterMike]

Yes, by "go see what's out there" you do not need to take a class, but you may simply pick up a book and read about what an art has to offer or just watch a class. Whether you decide to go down that road and cross-train is up to you and the results may vary depending on your skill level. Sometimes cross-training too early in your overall training may produce conflicts and slow your progress in any one style.

But I think all of the arts have something to offer and should at least be respected for that. A lot of times you see the articles and posts regarding "This Art" vs. "That Art" which kind of pits one style against another right from the get-go.

An example of how the arts can be classified is right here on MartialTalk. The forum descriptions tell you what an art may encompass. If two arts offer throws, it's good to look at them both and see how they differ but realize that they both are just as valid.

 

[Shogun]

I practice Aikido primarily, but several other arts as well. I don't train in them for "cross-training" however, because I don't plan to use it in a ring. I also train in Jujutsu, Tushkahoma, and Ninjutsu.

 

[MJS]

I practice Aikido primarily, but several other arts as well. I don't train in them for "cross-training" however, because I don't plan to use it in a ring. I also train in Jujutsu, Tushkahoma, and Ninjutsu.

You dont have to get into a ring in order to crosstrain! I train in a few different arts. I do so, so I can become a more well rounded martial artist. Of course, if you did want to get into a MMA event, then crosstraining is really the only way you'd stand any chance.

Mike

 

[Shogun]

The Phrase "Cross-training" is used primarily to refer to sport martial arts. I did'nt mean the only way you can cross-train is by competing. it also would'nt be entirly necessary to cross train to do MMA. the Gracie Family trained strictly in Japanese Jujutsu, and developed BJJ, and they do just fine in MMA tourneys

 

[MJS]

The Phrase "Cross-training" is used primarily to refer to sport martial arts. I did'nt mean the only way you can cross-train is by competing. it also would'nt be entirly necessary to cross train to do MMA. the Gracie Family trained strictly in Japanese Jujutsu, and developed BJJ, and they do just fine in MMA tourneys

So if thats the case, how do you explain the loss of everyone in the first UFC to Royce Gracie? They were all 1 style fighters. Many of the Brazilian MMA fighters, such as Vitor Belfort has crosstrained extensively in boxing. I think that should be very apparent in the UFC fights! Why have they done this? One reason is to be more well rounded. If you wanted to beat someone wouldnt you think that you should have an understanding of their fight game? While the Gracies might not be the best punchers, I have seen Royce throw some punches as well as fights with Rickson Gracie who also punched.

Mike

 

[Shogun]

yes, this is true but also keep in mind the first UFC's didnt have outlined rules like they do now.

 

[Shogun]

also, a good number of the first UFC fighters did'nt really have a ton of training in their particular art. some didnt have any MA training (take Tito for example, who was only a collegiate wrestler). Really it is more the fighter mentality. Royce will fight anybody, anytime, anywhere. and has no fear of getting hurt. I wonder how many other fighters have that kind of discipline? Gary Goodridge brought pure Kuk Sool Won into the ring and won. Chuck Liddell brought koei kan karate and did fairly well with it. In December of 98, Royce lost to Wallid Ismail by rear naked choke. Ismail is pure Jujutsu.

so in conclusion, It is not necessary to compete to cross train, nor is it necessay to cross train to compete.

 

[MJS]

yes, this is true but also keep in mind the first UFC's didnt have outlined rules like they do now.

Umm..Yes they did!! There were rules, but not as many as they have now.

Mike

 

[MJS]

also, a good number of the first UFC fighters did'nt really have a ton of training in their particular art. some didnt have any MA training (take Tito for example, who was only a collegiate wrestler).

I think you need to do your homework on UFC fighters. Tito did not enter the picture until much later. They didnt have a ton of training in their art?? Come on man. You had guys like Ken Shamrock and Pat Smith. Those guys didnt have a ton of training?? Yeah, ok!!

Really it is more the fighter mentality. Royce will fight anybody, anytime, anywhere. and has no fear of getting hurt. I wonder how many other fighters have that kind of discipline?

Gee, let me see. Tank Abbott for one. All of those guys that enter that ring have some serious balls!

Gary Goodridge brought pure Kuk Sool Won into the ring and won. Chuck Liddell brought koei kan karate and did fairly well with it.

Gary also got destroyed by a wrestler in one of those fights, due to his lack of ground exp. Mark Shultz was the wrestler that he fought. Chuck has also crosstrained.

In December of 98, Royce lost to Wallid Ismail by rear naked choke. Ismail is pure Jujutsu.

And your point?? When you have 2 people who are equally matched in skill, its the one who can out think the other, that will end up the winner. Wallid and Royce also come from 2 different camps.

so in conclusion, It is not necessary to compete to cross train, nor is it necessay to cross train to compete.

It is necessary. Look at Dan Severn. He came in pure wrestler. Sure he dominated the first few, but he didnt know how to finish. No submission exp. That was UFC4 and he lost to Gracie. In UFC 5 he came back and was 10 times better. He destroyed Oleg with strikes, including knees. Gee, ya think he did a little extra training???

Mike

 

[Shogun]

You, and I, came up with some valid points but it is really a matter of opinion. I don't think it is 100% necessary to cross train. you obviously do.The only time I have ever competed (it was local) I did pretty well for myself, and this was back when I only had japanese Jujutsu training. So really we could go on for ever bringing up good points, and pointless opinions, but I'd rather not.

ps. My favorite fighter, BJ penn, has done Jujutsu exclusively, and is 6-1, and current lightweight champ. Some may say he has cross trained but Jujutsu contains everything. I think anyone that feels their current art is'nt good enough, and they need to cross train, should find a different art because obviously its insufficient.

 

[MJS]

You, and I, came up with some valid points but it is really a matter of opinion. I don't think it is 100% necessary to cross train. you obviously do.The only time I have ever competed (it was local) I did pretty well for myself, and this was back when I only had japanese Jujutsu training. So really we could go on for ever bringing up good points, and pointless opinions, but I'd rather not.

Yup, you're right. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion.

ps. My favorite fighter, BJ penn, has done Jujutsu exclusively, and is 6-1, and current lightweight champ. Some may say he has cross trained but Jujutsu contains everything. I think anyone that feels their current art is'nt good enough, and they need to cross train, should find a different art because obviously its insufficient.

BJ is an awesome fighter! I have had the crosstraining debate many times with my fellow Kenpoists. I look at it like this. As I've said, if I can take something from another art to make me better, then why not do it? There are so many different things out there, why not take a look at all of them?? Its like going to a new restaurant. Would you always eat the same thing or sample other things from the menu?? I know what I'd do!!! In addition, Kenpo is very effecient!! Sure there are weapon and grappling elements included, but I CT in BJJ to further my ground game as well as CT in Arnis to further my weapon game. IMO, nobody addresses a stick and knife better than the Filipinos!!!! In addition to that, they have awesome empty hand fighting skill!!! I've been training in it for 6yrs now, and I can see a very big difference in my skills!!

Mike

 

[buddah_belly]

I do aikido, kenjitsu, and kung fu.
Sensei teaches all three. I started with aikido and kenjitsu and he told me when I was ready to add kung fu.